Welsh Models Airspeed Ambassador 1/144, first vacform ever for me

[jjlain]

Evening

For some time I've been thinking vacform kits somewhat fascinating and kind of scary at the same time. So, when I happened to stumble upon some Welsh Models 1/144 airliner kits, I thought that maybe I'll try one as they were quite cheap (7,5€/piece). The choices available were Airspeed Ambassador and Vickers Viscount, of which I ended up buying the Ambassador (and went back the next day for the Viscount).

Looking at peoples work here I feel a bit embarrased to start a WIP thread, as I'm not that experienced and my talents/skills are in no way comparable to anyone's, I'm not even sure if I'm in the same hobby I just figured maybe the thread might keep me moving forward and maybe even finish something for once.

Facts are: my first vacform kit, my first civilian airliner, my first 1/144 kit and my first WIP thread, so chances of success are grim =) As to the kit, I don't know if it is good or bad, what comes to vacforms. I'm not aiming for any fine detailing, riveting etc, just a somewhat acceptable outcome.

Here's the start of the Airspeed Ambassador:

Opening up the windows, windscreens, still cleaning to do

Cut off the fuselage halves, sanding & filing ahead. Also trying to figure out where the bulkheads are supposed to go. The rearmost doesn't seem to fit the indicated place.

-Jaakko

[Paul Alan Bardell]

Jaakko

good luck with this, I have never been able to get on with vac forms.

will watch with interest.

[Jessica]

The bulkheads need some sanding down because Densil changed the thickness of his plastic stock a few years ago without changing the size of the masters. Sand, test fit, sand some more,etc...

[Nomore Shelfspace]

Next is to get a full size sheet of wet or dry and fix it to a sheet of hardboard or whatever (or anything flat), wet it and rub down the mating surfaces of the various parts on it. Keep test fitting til you get the right depth. Use strips of backing plastic to make reinforcements inside the joints - use plenty of liquid poly.

OK, only ever built one vac, but that's the advice I picked up...

...Oh yeah, says that on the instructions doesn't it...

Edited July 11, 2015 by Nomore Shelfspace

[jjlain]

Thank you for the advice!

I'll have to be careful with the bulkheads. The one with the angle is still troubling me, the place it would fit best is astern of the wing root.

I had a sheet of wet and dry waiting for that task, but i forgot to take it with me as I'm not home currently.

-J

[Fatboydim]

Beautiful aircraft. I think there is one at Duxford. I've made a couple of Welsh Models BAe 146s a few years back. I really enjoyed making them. I'm sure you will enjoy making yours. You've made a good start with the cabin windows. Joe

[jjlain]

A small update with a little bit of progress. Most of the parts have now been removed from the backing and the excess plastic sanded away. I've also installed the fuselage bulkheads, quite a lot of sanding ahead to get the other fuselage half to fit. Maybe the bulkheads were not supposed to be where they ended up. Well, hope they'll do their job =) I superglued a ball bearing as weight inside the fuselage. Nosegear wells were opened up, I've no idea yet what they're supposed to look inside.

I don't know what would be the proper way to handle the propellers, but I filled the backside with milliput and will sand them to shape when the time comes. Also filled the spinners.

I'm actually finding working with a vacform model quite fun. Way more laborious than injection kits for sure, but it feels nice to have to do all the fitting&cutting etc yourself.

-J

[Turbofan]

Hi J

I'd recommend building up a box around the ball bearing with some of the spare styrene from the backing sheet. I've had a few loose nose weights that have become unstuck and ended up rattling around inside.

Also some tabs around the fuselage joint will make it stronger, thought I'd mention it before you glue the fuselage halves together!

Cheers,

Ian

[jjlain]

Thanks for the advice Ian, I'll construct something to trap the bearing. The tabs for the joint are next.

-Jaakko

[MikeW]

That is a lot of 'firsts' for any build, and yet you have started off like a skilled professional. Magnificent job of opening those windows.

With my vacforms I had also got the tape from the late Clint Groves, and used his method of 'a river of epoxy'. Basically just glue the two fuselage halves together, then through a small hole in the bottom, midships, pour in a 5 minute epoxy, then tilt the model back and forth, letting the river of epoxy run fore and aft til it dries. Cut out a notch in the bulkheads to allow it to pass, and when dry, you have a solidly joined fuselage. ( I really did not know what I was doing, and didn't even use bulkheads, yet still set solid and took all the later sanding abuse )

Cheers,

Mike

[viscount806x]

Aeroclub did a set of white metal props for the Ambassador and Welsh provide their own set nowadays. Contact them direct for a set.

There is a set of resin wings and tailplane/fin assy available which will make your life a lot easier. Also available direct from Welsh models.

I have built six of these kits and recommend that you pack out the extreme rear fuselage where the tail sits on with Milliput to give something to shape up later. Also, fill the centre section at the wing joint with it to give a robust mounting.

Good luck Here is one of mine:-

Good luck with the project.

Nige B

[jjlain]

Thank you for the advice Nige! Filling the tail never occurred to me, but will do it now. Noticed the centre section/wing joint did feel really weak, and I thought about reinforcing it with something. Milliput backing it is then =) By the way that one of yours is something to aspire to!

Mike, how does the "river of epoxy" method work with the windows already cut out? I mean doesn't it fill them or run out when you turn the fuselage over to deal with the topside joint? Maybe it could be pooled in the tail and then carefully run down the other seam..

This one has to be without any aftermarket stuff, whatever the result. Maybe some for the Viscount I also bought (if props/other parts are available), if this one is ever completed. I promised myself for the 50th time I wouldn't buy anyhting new before some if not all my started kits are done.

btw. it's really really nice to get advice and encouragement! Thank you everyone!

-Jaakko

[Jessica]

To avoid leakage out of the windows, do the epoxy in two steps. First do the top, let it cure, then mix up a new batch for the bottom. When you're doing the top, obviously you need to not let it pour out of the windscreen. Don't notch the bulkhead right behind the cockpit (And don't forget to do the Rolling Stones thing in there before gluing everything together).

[jjlain]

Rolling Stones thing aka paint it black? If that's what you mean took me a while to figure that out 😊

Maybe I'll try the epoxy thing, if I got the patience to wait 'til I can get some. I'm afraid my bulkheads are somewhat lacking in the fit department, so I probably have to do more filling than notching 😊

[jjlain]

Another small update. I filled the extreme rear of the fuselage and the wing joint areas with milliput, trapped the ball bearing with a small bulkhead and a strip of plastic and started making a (crude) box representing a wheel well for the front gear. I've no idea what it actually looks like, but it's gonna be a box on this plane =) The windows seem to need more work, each and every one is a different size and shape.

That's it for now, thank you for watching & for all the good advice!

-J

[BritJet]

Looking good so far.

I took some photos (mostly of the undercarriage) of the Duxford Ambassador during it's restoration that might be useful to you;

http://s592.photobucket.com/user/BritjetsPhotos/media/Ambassador%20003_zps9mgp0mt8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Keep asking questions and enjoy yourself!

Steve

Edit: Link changed to Photobucket due to Google messing about with GooglePhotos!

[Jessica]

Rolling Stones thing aka paint it black? If that's what you mean took me a while to figure that out

That's it precisely. If you leave it white it's going to look really toy-like. Black at least makes it look like there's some depth inside.

[jjlain]

Thanks Steve! Haven't been able to open them yet though, don't seem to work with a phone. Have to look at them later with my laptop.

-J

[viscount806x]

Rolling Stones thing aka paint it black? If that's what you mean took me a while to figure that out

Maybe I'll try the epoxy thing, if I got the patience to wait 'til I can get some. I'm afraid my bulkheads are somewhat lacking in the fit department, so I probably have to do more filling than notching

Don't worry too much about the bulkheads. I got fed up with them too and left them out finally in favour of the aforementioned Milliput thing which gave me the alternative method of giving rigidity.

Nige B

[jjlain]

Okay, a small update again.

I did my time at the annual forced labor camp known as a "summer holiday" and now it's back to work, so modelling time will be limited even more. But some little progress.

Painted everything black and continued the box thing that's trying to be a front gear well. I think everyhting looks really untidy and generally not nice, but hopefully it wont show on the outside eventually.

Then I glued the fuselage halves together and left to dry. Possibly some problems at the rear end, have to see when it's set enough so I dare handle it.

I'm not sure yet whether I'll try the epoxy reinforcment or not. Have to think about it.

Big thanks to everyone for comments and advice!

-J

Edited July 22, 2015 by jjlain

[Radleigh]

I need to build an Ambassador one day, such a lovely looking aircraft. Watching this one...

[jjlain]

Hello

Progress has slowed down greatly as I feared, but now the Ambassador's got wings! Beginning to look like an airplane now.

I think it really is a beautiful and sleek plane, but I'm not talking about my model of it =) Quite a steep learning curve with the vac model, but maybe I'll get there in the end. I wasn't patient enough when sanding & matching the parts that make up the wing, so there is a step just outboard of the engine mountings, but I think I can smooth it with milliput and lots of sanding. Also there was quite a large gap between the middle part and the topsides of the wing. I should've filled it with scrap plastic and not only filler as it cracked afterwards, had to run some CA-glue in the crack. The wings were drooping noticeably after mounting as I didn't reinforce the mounting areas inside the fuselage enough, but CA-glue fixed most of the problem. The fuselage halves were misaligned a bit, especially at the front, hence the large milliput filling.

But enough with the complaining, I think It'll be allright after all.

Some pictures:

-Jaakko

[Viking]

Hi Jaakko,

I've only just stumbled across this, great job and welcome to the world of vac-form builders!
You've done the hardest part of this one, the most difficult bits are out of the way..

It's too late now, but I have a different technique for doing Welsh Models fuselages which might help when it comes to doing you Viscount. I've used it on my Ambassador, which is a little further on than yours and coated in grey primer. Props are white metal and came in my kit.






When it comes to doing fuselage halves, I absolutely hate that bulkhead and tabs technique that most vac form kits suggest you use.
As you have found, it is difficult to get right and is not particularly strong. I binned that whole approach years ago and do it this way, which is simple to explain, easy to do, and 10 times stronger than the bulkhead method. I didn't take any photos when building the ambassador, but do have some of an F27 I did a few years back.

You need a sheet of 20 thou plasticard, but thats all. Place a prepared fuselage half on the plasticard and lightly draw around it with a sharp knife. Don't bother about the tail fin. Cut it out so that you have a side profile of the fuselage. Carefully go along the bottom edge and remove about a 1mm strip. This is to allow for the thickness of the vac form fuselage 'shell'.
Offer it up to the inside of the shell. It won't fit perfectly first time. Note where it needs a bit of sanding down, and do so. Keep going with checking and sanding until the profile just fits neatly onto the shell without any force or distortion. It should lie flush top & bottom with the fuselage sides, as in the upper fuselage half in this picture;


When you have 1 good profile, lay it on the plasticard sheet, cut around it and now you have 2 good profiles!
If the first one goes wrong, just start again with cutting out a fresh one.
Note my use of nose weight to prevent tail sitting. I use cyano or araldite to hold them in place. They need to be in before the profile is glued on.
I've fitted a nose wheel bay on this one, so had to cut the same space onto the profile.

Both halves done, the profiles (or Keels as I prefer to call them) are lightly dropped in, and a run of Tamiya extra thin, plastic weld, or Mek-Pak liquid cement brushed around. Flip them over on a flat surface like the lower fuselage half in this picture, and lightly press so that the keel takes up its proper place with none of it sticking out.


Leave them to set. They will be immensley strong and very easy to glue the 2 halves together. Getting them lined up is childsplay, with none of that impossible fiddling around that you get with bulkheads that barely fit, and tabs that keep dropping off or distorting the joint. And you ain't never gonna split that seam open, it's far too strong!

You might also have noticed that I use brass wire spar stubs to strengthen the wing join. As others have said, I packed the inside of the wing root with Milliput filler, and then drilled holes right through for short spars. Dry fitted;


The major parts assembled, and awaiting filler and cleanup.



This is my 1 man campaign to ditch the bulkheads and start using keels inside your vac form fuleages!
Seriously though, I hope this gives you food for thought and an alternative (and I strongly believe simpler) way to build vac form airliners.

There is a bit more info in the Group build log from the original build.

Cheers

John

[Jessica]

That technique works wonderfully as long as the plastic is robust enough. Some vacs use much thinner plastic which cannot withstand handling if there isn't an internal structure of bulkheads and formers. I refer you to Tom Probert's C-17 for an example.

[Viking]

Some vacs use much thinner plastic which cannot withstand handling if there isn't an internal structure of bulkheads and formers.

Indeed yes. Given the size of a 1:72 globemaster, in vac form it is going to be large and somewhat floppy requiring much more support.

It's for similar reasons that I wear re-inforced Y-fronts.