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Does anyone else apart, from me, build merchant ship models?


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As Graham wrote it's easy enough to build the Fujimi kit in pre-war condition as Jim Smith did on finewaterline.com: LINK. Omit the gun positions, use the alternative wheelhouse face that's provided (Jim's build doesn't) and your good to go.

Jim also built the Fujimi Nippon Maru tanker kit in peacetime fit: LINK.

Finewaterline.com also has a merchant ship gallery: LINK.

The new Aoshima Kamikawa, Kiyokawa and Kimikawa Maru kits depict the ships in their auxiliary seaplane tender forms, but it wouldn't be too difficult to de-militarise them. They also depict ships used by Kawasaki Kisen Line whilst the Fujimi kits depict NYK Line vessels, so an opportunity for a different paint scheme.

Mike. :)

Edit: I've done some further digging and it appears that the Aoshima kits are a different class from the Fujimi ones, not just ships of a different company.

Edited by MikeR
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I know that you can convert some kits to their peacetime variations, but my main point is that hardly anyone does so! Of course, it is largely dictated by what the kit manufacturers want to produce. Deep in Finewaterline.com is my own gallery here: http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/albums/rwilson/rwilson.htm They are all scratchbuilt, and all miniatures. They are viewed quite a lot, and have a good following, but all I hear is "I could never do that!" and I wonder why? The main difference between kit and scratch seems to be the fact that with a kit, it all comes in a box, where with scratch, you have to search around for materials etc. Scratch to me is the freedom to build whatever I want without being limited by what kit manufacturers want me to build!

I have fought a losing battle for years to try and get modellers interested in Merchant Navy subjects, but it does seem to be "mission impossible!" Why are they so unpopular amongst ship modellers, are they not attractive looking ships?

Bob

Edited by ShipbuilderMN
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Greg,

Clan MacNaughton was a good looking ship. Here it is http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewgal.asp?id=20480

I worked for Cayzer, Irvine from 1965 to 1976, but never sailed in a Clan, as they choose to put me mainly in Union-Castle passenger liners, apart from a short spell in the cargo ships Richmond Castle and Nina Bowater.

Dave,

Those card model are very impressive, and I like your Olympic, but I think I would find it a bit difficult fitting it all together properly!

Kev,

Yes, I have seen that site, but again, very few merchant ships.

I suppose I am biased because of my happy years in the MN where we had loads of adventures, saw the world, and on the passenger liners, we also had a decent social life included. My wife often accompanied me on voyages, which would not have been permitted if I had been in the Navy!

I found the Falklands one long round of exercises, with very little peace and tranquility. Not talking about enemy action either - we saw none! but between gunnery practice, helicopter comings and goings there was the continuous "blah blah blah" of "pipes" (Information broadcasts) as well as the discomfort of sleeping bags instead of blankets and sheets! :yikes:

Bob

My Grandad ended up as chief Purser for the Jock Navy (he had an accident that damaged his eyes as a cadet and could not get the ticket for skipper), I can remember as a nipper being taken onboard the ships at the big pink warehouse in Birkenhead and also seeing him in his offices in the Liver Building. Its a pity the Line is no more. You are right about it being a good looking ship. One day.....

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I may have sailed with him! I do remember a junior purser aboard cruise ship Reina del Mar that had begun as a deck cadet, but had an accident that damaged his eyesight, causing him to move into the pursers department. That was in the late 1960s, but can't remember his name.

Bob

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I may have sailed with him! I do remember a junior purser aboard cruise ship Reina del Mar that had begun as a deck cadet, but had an accident that damaged his eyesight, causing him to move into the pursers department. That was in the late 1960s, but can't remember his name.

Bob

He was a deck cadet in the 30's! He played as an under 21 for Scotland, was offered a position in Glasgow Rangers and turned it down to join the Clan as a deck cadet. 2 of his uncles never spoke to him again! However, with professional football wages then, it was the sensible decision.

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Different one then! Clan Line took over Union-Castle Line in the early 1960s and sea staff became interchangeable. Although I though I was joining Clan Line, I never sailed in one!

Bob

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I can come up with seven reasons why more people aren't modelling merchant ships such as the Clan Line, falling into two blocks.

One: Ship kits, at least in the UK nowadays, are not as popular as aircraft or tanks. This can be blamed, at least in part, on the choice of manufacturers, particularly Airfix as they are so dominant in the UK, but there is the larger influence that the Royal Navy is not as large or as significant to the public eye as it used to be. The merchant navy still less so.

Two: Military kits are more popular than civil ones - modellers, especially the younger ones, like to have killing machines.

Three: Older peacetime subjects are less likely to be bought than current ones,

Four: Large spectacular subjects rather than everyday ones: the super-liners rather than good honest working cargo liners.

I honestly do not see what can be done to combat these four factors, other than to produce historic MN subjects in both military and civil roles - which is what various manufacturers are doing. Modellers who are drawn across may keep moving in your way.

Five: The amount of work involved in scratchbuilding compared with just putting pieces together.

Six: The number of skills required. You have to have decent drawings to start with, you have to be able to picture how to convert the drawings and pictures into parts, which then go together into at least an approximate shape that is then worked on to produce a kit that looks, well, something approaching as good as what comes out of the box. If you think such things are everyday possessions of the modeller, look how often the question is asked online about converting from one scale to another. Look how many are unable to recognise major differences in appearance between the kit and the original subject, or are unwilling to consider doing any work to improve such.

Seven. The extra time this takes. In the time taken to make one scratchbuilt ship to a decent standard, a small fleet can be created.

I'm not suggesting that all modellers lack the skills to scratchbuild, far from it, as looking at any of the major competitions will demonstrate. Beyond that, many of the cottage industry masters are made by super-skilled modellers. But those who are prepared to dedicate long periods of time to gaining such skills, at the expense of a larger collection and possibly wider interests, are always going to be limited in number. Merchant navy modellers are then only a subset of these.

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Graham,

With regard to the above, here are my observations for what they are worth:

One, Two - Agree!

Three - Disagree - I am completely overwhelmed by collectors wanting me to build merchant ships for them! Because of this, I no longer take commissions, even so, I am always getting "If you ever think of building..... - I will buy it!"

Four - Agree!

Five - Agree to a certain extent, but why bother at all if you do not really want to put in much effort?

Six - Agree partially, but I always felt that a hobby must entail a certain amount of work, and that its main purpose is to remove me from the stresses and strains of life for a while.

Seven - Agree partially, but when modellers tell me they haven't got the time to scratchbuild, I ask how long it takes to make a kit. They usually say several months or even years! Miniatures seldom take me more than 60 hours, spread over a couple of months!

Again, look at this lot that I built over the past few years. None of them took very long and only a small proportion of what I have built:

http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/albums/rwilson/rwilson.htm

Bob

Edited by ShipbuilderMN
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re point 3: I was thinking in terms of the numbers of a single subject required to justify tooling for an injected plastic kit, or even the master for resin kits, whereas you are talking about the buyers for a wide range of individual subjects, and finished items at that. If you analysed these requests, what's the maximum number for a kit of any single subject? Is it far beyond low double figures? I suspect not. Even so, then there is a market for resin merchant kits, and there are companies producing these. Look at the range of Loose Cannon, or Battlefleet. Discounting the Japanese and US wartime subjects, there are quite a few merchantile subjects if mainly an earlier period than the 50s. Perhaps you could test the market by producing a master for a resin kit of a suitable subject, and kick-start a wider interest in this period?

re point 7: But how long did it take you to do your first? Most modellers do not take months or years over a single kit. At least, not working on one at a time. The hard core do... although I suspect 60 hours is probably on the high side. But I wanted to make the point that for many it is the acquisition of new skills and honing to an acceptable standard that takes time they are unwilling to invest.

re miniatures: perhaps I should have added a point 8: the smaller the fewer. I remember making the Eagle range of ships as a lad, but since then the smaller scales have only had smaller interest in the market. In ships, 1/700 still leads but 1/350 is rapidly gaining. In aircraft 1/72 is more popular than 1/48 at least outside the US, but everywhere is much more popular than 1/144, other than for the large airliners. In AFVs 1/35 is the dominant scale, despite the wide range available in 1/72 & 1/76.

I have some sympathy about hobbies requiring a certain amount of work, but that wouldn't explain the diecast collectors, or those who would buy your own finished works.

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Going back to about 1972 when I decided that I had had enough of building large models, that always took me months and months, I changed literally overnight to miniatures at 32'=1". My last large model was the sailing ship Bay of Bengal at 8'=1". My first miniature was also Bay of Bengal, at 32'=1".

Both model are pictured below. The miniature took about a week, and I found that far more acceptable than taking months. I have got slower, because I now take a lot more care. As you can see, neither model is particularly good, so you can see that I was probably a less than average modelmaker at that time. But I still get a lot of people saying they can't see any difference in quality between models I did then, and the ones I produce now, which I find very depressing, often thinking "why did I even bother to improve?"

I could not make a casting for a 1200 scale because I don't know how, and don't really want to anyway! I just find it sad to see the hobby (merchant ship modelling) declining. Even Conway Maritime Press have now discontinued both Model Shipwright and the annual Shipwright that succeeded it as well. I wrote regularly for them over many years!

Bob

Bay_of_Bengal_Large_Small_Large.jpg

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I didn't really mean merchant ships in their war roles, but in their peacetime roles such as before 1914, between 1918 and 1939, and then after 1945. During wars, they were taken over by the military and the service was completely different.

Plenty shipping lines to choose from - Blue Star, Houlders, Furness Withy, Clan, Ellermans, Cunard, Brocklebanks, Ben, Bowaters, P & O. Cunard, Union-Castle, Buries Markes, Moss Hutchison - I could go on and on, but I seldom see any.

Bob

Apart from a couple of the more modern "box boats" most injection models are of the more popular passenger ships (the Queens etc) Apart from converting the Trumpeter Liberty ship into a post war "tramp" we non scratch builder have little choice. I once tried to scratch an Sd-14 but failed...........................miserably. In answer to your original question,I dont build merchant ships..............................Id like to though. :captain:

I wonder if we would have the same colour debates over the true shade of "deck red" or Bowater green or Port Line hull grey? .......................uh uh did I mention gray/grey :shutup::poo:

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The question was does anyone else build Merchant Ship Models? What is the article about?

Bob

Hi Bob,

the article is about IPMS member Don McKeand's scratchbuilds of Europic Ferry (in Falkland's fit); Ionic Ferry; HMS Chitral and Wimpey Seahorse. I'll scan the article and send it to you.

I've got a 1:350 Trumpeter Liberty ship which I plan to build as a postwar ship. I'm just reading through the book "Liberty Ships in Peacetime" in order to find a company livery which would be of interest.

Mike

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Ytareh,

Hulls, especially waterline are not all that complicated (pre 1965 ships anyway), but to describe the techniques is quite complicated and would take up rather too much space. I have produced several downloadable practicums in PDF (Acrobat Reader) for nominal sums via my website (Click on my Avatar picture to left to get my website address). I would not have mentioned these unless the subject came up, as I am not here primarily to sell anything! All in all, the practicums took me months to write, and it is good to have a bit of a return on the work. I am happy to answer simple questions here though.

Ancient Mariner

I sailed in Nina Bowater in 1968, here is a picture I took at Charleston, South Carolina after an extremely arduous passage across the North Atlantic in winter

I use Halford's Red Oxide matt primer (aerosol spray) for deck red and underwater colour, and feel it is very authentic. If I build a grey ship, I tend to use lighter grey than normal to liven it up again. I find slate grey rather drab. This is not innacurate, as depending on the lighting conditions, colours can look totally different on a big ship.

Bob

Nina_Bowater_Large.jpg

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Yep I have 4 ships in the stash, the Revell Finnjet, the Color Magic (I think), an Aida cruise ship and a Shapeways Pride of York....

Thinking about getting a container ship as well if I can find the Colombo Express for a decent price....

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Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting the photo of Nina Bowater. Good quality colour photographs are just as important as plans, especially when it comes to finishing a model. As with your image above, important elements such as the colours of the windlasses, flying bridge and lifeboat covers are paramount to getting the correct look.

Looking at the hull, is that a strengthening strake just beyond the nearest forklift truck?

cheers

Mike

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Hi Mike,

No, they weren't ice strengthened, but as they usually wintered in the Great Lakes, there was a lot of coming and going alongside, so it was just a rubbing strake. I never did a winter season on the lakes, but I have seen pictures of them completely iced up on the decks and rigging. I don't know if the lakes ever froze solid. I think the ships could still move about, but they were trapped in the lakes until the St. Lawrence thawed out again.

Bob

PS - Your book on the way.

BA777

Nice to know someone else is building them. Yours are a much later era than I specialise in!

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BA777

Nice to know someone else is building them. Yours are a much later era than I specialise in!

It's just a shame that I can't find any other modernish ship kits though....

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Bob, the Great Lakes certainly freeze over, It is/was not unusual for the first ship of the season to reach Dull th with the help of an ice breaker.IIRC there was a prize of a gold topped cane for the master of the first ship through, but I'm not sure if that was for a full passage or just to Montreal.

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BA777

I never had any success at all with kits, I just couldn't work up sufficient enthusiasm to complete them! That was in the 1950s. Scratchbuilding, to me at least, is far cheaper and more satisfying, and I don't have to worry about lost or broken parts, I just make another! Also, not having a great deal of patience, I stick to miniatures that are quicker to build.

Ancient Mariner,

The Bowater ships always spent the winter in the lakes when the St. Lawrence was frozen, but I assumed that they must have been able to move around in the lakes to a certain extent, or there would have been no point in having them there.

Bob

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Not all the fleet wintered in the lakes. The Margaret,Sarah and Nicholas traded the US East coast with newsprint and pulp to Europe (usually working out of Cornerbrooke Nfld) Not unusual to have a Canadian icebreaker in attendance.During my time it was the John A McDonald.. Trading patterns may have changed year to year?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bowatersteamshipcompany.no-ip.com%2Fpage2.html&ei=fN5YVaWSD43isATa8YCQCA&usg=AFQjCNE6wLhv5dI1EIRqZCMmjXyDZyj0ag&sig2=MN3GqmPx3lOJ-1M-ko4sVg&bvm=bv.93564037,d.cWc

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