First time spray priming

[Croftona]

Hi

Pretty basic question here, I bought some Halfords plastic primer which I've had recommended as a newbie, I've been painting on primer so far so this will be my first go at spraying it on.

A couple of things I'm unsure on, is there any reason why I shouldn't just prime everything on the sprue before building? Seems to me to be the easiest way, but am I missing something?

Also, I understand about a light thin coat, but I read somewhere it's best to use Micromesh first so that the primer will bond better, how necessary is that step?

And finally, is one thin coat of primer all I need or should I do two or more?

Thanks

[Mitch K]

If you prime everything on the sprue, you've got to scrape back the primer where you glue stuff. It's a pain, in myexperience.

I've never micromeshed ahead of priming, except to get seams etc to look right. Degreasing and tacking off before priming really helps though.

How much primer is a (another) bit of a value judgement. All you're trying to achieve it an even coat for the paint to stick to, but if the subject is white/yellow/pale sky grey all over and the manufacturer has moulded it in black or charcoal grey, some extra primer is a big help.

[Fin]

A couple of things I'm unsure on, is there any reason why I shouldn't just prime everything on the sprue before building? Seems to me to be the easiest way, but am I missing something?

I`m new to this too and although I have bought a can of Humbrol spray primer I haven`t actually used it so far. Still, the answer to this one seems intuitive. You can`t spray the parts before detaching them because that means you can`t put them first together to see how they fit. Depending on the latter you might need to cut, file, sand, fill and so on and this would just remove the primer. Not to mention that the primer would cover the joining parts and would need to be removed from there in order to use the glue.

Humbrol btw has a tutorial on their youtube page showing how to use their own spray primer and you can also see the result. It`s the one I`ve watched several times, but in the end I`m just not entirely sold on the idea of the primer (used as spray or by brush).

Edit: Mitch beat me to it.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Fin

[Black Knight]

There are many parts you can prime on the frame, and finish painting on the frame. Its a matter of working out stages before you come to them.

I never rub down before priming, and one or two light coats are usually sufficient. Too many coats will build up and hide fine detail on your model.

[Croftona]

Thanks guys, Appreciate the tips and knowledge shared.

[CedB]

As another newbie can I add:

- primer is needed to give an even colur base when you have different materials and, some say, to provide a 'grip coat'. Some don't prime at all, ever. I'm priming if I've used lots of filler or if there are resin / PE parts

- Halfords primer comes out of the can at speed and in volume! Be ready for quick, even passes but you may only need one - scary! Practice first!

You'll can see from the above that I don't think you always need to prime (I use acrylics) unless you have 'contrasting' bits.

Also I agree that you can't prime on the sprue... It will effect the fit and the ability of the parts to weld, I think.

Looking forward to your first WIP - don't be afraid to share as this is how I've learned - have a look at mine (links below) and you'll see what I mean!

[Croftona]

Thanks matey, your workspace is awesome, I'm so jealous that it's made me slightly dislike you (joking obviously).

I've requested a shed as there's no where in the house that I can turn into a proper workspace, I'm awaiting the decision, I'm not hopeful but I am tenacious, ordered her a necklace tonight with the kids names engraved on it, I'll mention the shed again a couple of days after it arrives....

[CedB]

Ah, bribery! Although blackmail is often more successful!

Fingers crossed and I hope the shed has a heater, comfy chair and WiFi. Man caves rule!

Edit: like your style on the shed order - Grace Hopper would be proud (see below)!

[Croftona]

Rather than start another new thread, anyone got any advice and tips on masking and painting canopies? So bloody fiddly aren't they?!

What's the best material to use and easiest method for a beginner?

The last one I just did using a cocktail stick, it looks OK but up close you don't get those nice crisp sharp straight edges.

Products I currently own which may (or may not) help get the job done:

Humbrol maskol

Microscale masking fluid

Revell 6mm masking tape

00 and 000 detailing brushes

I've read things about people using sticky silver foil and cutting out the parts to be painted, but basically I've no idea how to go about doing this properly to get a good finish.

It's been dipped in klear already, but aside from that I need help!

[Black Knight]

Do not use maskol on it if its been coated in Klear. Maskol will remove it.

Use strips of tape along the canopy frame lines. Use a sharp scalpel to cut the tape along edges of frames. Remove tape from canopy frames. Fill in rest of canopy areas with pieces of tape.

Or cover canopy completely and use painted decal film on frames.

Or use a steady hand and a 5/0 long-haired brush to paint frames.

Or do all three.

[John Laidlaw]

With regard to masking canopies with foil, this is as good a step-by-step as I've seen:

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/maskingbmfds_1.htm

Hope that helps.

Good luck with the shed! .

[CedB]

My Guru here:

https://youtu.be/WHJmxKKxsew

dr_gn, who's Tornado canopy is a work of art in its own right, advised against this here but I get on with Paul's methods well. You just need to be careful and use a new blade. And a good knife. I bought a Swann Morton retractable blade (£5) and a box of No 9 blades (£10 for 100). In fact I got two handles and a box of straight 10A blades too. They're great (and cheaper than the hobby knives most people use). Paul at Modelling Tools provides good service and has them here.

Edit: Sorry guys - my curved blades are No 6, not 9, the box was upside down - doh!

[Croftona]

Thanks for this everybody, question on blades, there seem to be many different types and numbers of blade, where can I look to teach myself what the different numbers represent? Do the numbers represent blade thickness?

For example in that video, Paul mentions using a slightly curved blade for cutting foil on canopies, and explains incredibly well why he uses that shape of blade, where can I learn these kinds of things without bothering you guys every day with yet another question!

Is there a good online resource?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Croftona

[CedB]

Hmmm. The numbers refer to the blade shape. There are two handle sizes, No 3 (small and you can get retractable handle) and No 4 (larger). The Swann Morton website has details but it's not for the squeamish - you probably don't want to know why the blades have different shapes!
Follow the link to Modelling Tools in my post #12 above and you can see the blade shapes there. I use 10A for standard cutting and the curved blade #9 for masking and that's all I need.
HTH

Edit again: Sorry guys - my curved blades are No 6, not 9, the box was upside down - doh!

[Croftona]

Ok so I used the sticking tape along the frame lines method and have painted the frame lines.

Nervous about getting the tape off without ruining the nice sharp lines...

Any tips?

Also, can I dip the whole thing in klear again now that it's painted? I suppose that would add a gloss finish where there shouldn't be one though.

[CedB]

Make sure the tape is pressed down at the edges. I use a cocktail stick 'edge of the tip' along the tape and the pointy end (carefully) to press into seam lines. I have a pair of pointy, bent end tweezers (like these) that are great for gently easing off a corner of the tape and then pulling off.

The whole process seems to be (I'm a fairly new boy too):

- build the model

- fill obvious gaps and sand

- mask and fit the canopy (and other bits like turrets)

- prime the model

- check for faults, fill, sand and re-prime those bits (I'm guessing about that last bit)

- apply the paint top and bottom including camo pattern starting with the lightest colour (usually the bottom), doing a complete coat on top of the lighter camo colour and then masking for the darker

- coat with Klear (most people use a wide, soft brush) to provide a smooth finish for...

- decal and weather

- final matt / satin coat to seal everything

- remove the canopy masks.

HTH. The main thing is to enjoy the hobby so feel free (as I do) to leave out any of those steps if you can't be bothered!

[Black Knight]

Ok so I used the sticking tape along the frame lines method and have painted the frame lines.

Nervous about getting the tape off without ruining the nice sharp lines...

Any tips?

Also, can I dip the whole thing in klear again now that it's painted? I suppose that would add a gloss finish where there shouldn't be one though.

Run your scalpel along the edge again. Don't use the point much, but slice with the edge. This will cut any paint bridging from the canopy frame to the tape.

I usually put on a coat of Klear over the lot then use a 3/0 brush to put matt varnish [if required] on the frames.

[rmcclure]

You can also buy pre-cut masks that are often worth their weight in gold, depending on the intricacy of the canopy you want to mask. If it's simple and mainly straight lines with well defined frames I can use to guide the blade then I do it myself with tape but if I were tackling something like a He 111 then I would buy masks every time. Make sure you get the mask that's appropriate to your kit. The Hannants search engine is very useful for that.

Cheers,

Roger

[Croftona]

Make sure the tape is pressed down at the edges. I use a cocktail stick 'edge of the tip' along the tape and the pointy end (carefully) to press into seam lines. I have a pair of pointy, bent end tweezers (like these) that are great for gently easing off a corner of the tape and then pulling off.

The whole process seems to be (I'm a fairly new boy too):

- build the model

- fill obvious gaps and sand

- mask and fit the canopy (and other bits like turrets)

- prime the model

- check for faults, fill, sand and re-prime those bits (I'm guessing about that last bit)

- apply the paint top and bottom including camo pattern starting with the lightest colour (usually the bottom), doing a complete coat on top of the lighter camo colour and then masking for the darker

- coat with Klear (most people use a wide, soft brush) to provide a smooth finish for...

- decal and weather

- final matt / satin coat to seal everything

- remove the canopy masks.

HTH. The main thing is to enjoy the hobby so feel free (as I do) to leave out any of those steps if you can't be bothered!

That's almost exactly the order I do things too, except I leave the canopy until last, I'd be interested to know why you put it on before all of those other steps? In case I'm missing a trick.

Fantastic post (as usual) thanks very much.

[Croftona]

Run your scalpel along the edge again. Don't use the point much, but slice with the edge. This will cut any paint bridging from the canopy frame to the tape.

I usually put on a coat of Klear over the lot then use a 3/0 brush to put matt varnish [if required] on the frames.

That's great advice thank you.

[Croftona]

You can also buy pre-cut masks that are often worth their weight in gold, depending on the intricacy of the canopy you want to mask. If it's simple and mainly straight lines with well defined frames I can use to guide the blade then I do it myself with tape but if I were tackling something like a He 111 then I would buy masks every time. Make sure you get the mask that's appropriate to your kit. The Hannants search engine is very useful for that.

Cheers,

Roger

Thanks Roger it didn't occur to me to buy a mask, my next kit is the 1/48 Tamiya Zero and that comes with a mask which I think should be made law! Do all Tamiya kits come with them or is it scale specific? Manufacturer specific?

I want to learn the skill of doing it myself but I also want my canopies to be perfect as a bad one I feel can really detract from otherwise neat work, so I think maybe I'll alternate between ready made masks and home made masks.

[Croftona]

Just peeled the tape off the canopy...

Not bad! Even if I say so myself, for a first time effort I'm reasonably pleased.

Thanks for the knowledge and tips everybody.

[Mitch K]

Good to hear it went well!

[Croftona]

I also learned a valuable lesson, always check the canopy fits properly before painting!

Had to do some sanding and in doing so have removed some of the paint from the frames, it's fitted now but there are quite horrendous gaps on show.

Is there a product that can fill said gaps after the canopy has been fitted???

[John Laidlaw]

White glue (PVA or Krystal Klear) thinned with water until you can still pick up a blob on the end of a cocktail stick, but when touched to the gap, will run along it via capillary action. Do it a few times, then let it dry - it will shrink back, so you may have to repeat a few times. Any mistakes or errant blobs can be removed with a sharpened cocktail stick when dry, or a damp cloth when still wet.

HTH