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Xtracolour enamel and brush painting


tonyeh

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Hi all,

I am thinking of trying out Xtracolour enamel paints. Specifically RLM 74 and 75. The bane of the Luftwaffe modeller. For years I've made my own mix to represent these colours from Humbrol enamels. Hu27 + a drop of Hu91/Hu34 for RLM 74 and Hu140 + a tiny drop of Hu60/Hu34 for RLM 75. It works well enough, but it's a bit of a pain and the results can be random.

Anyway, as I am a brushie exclusively (I could never get used to an airbrush), I was wondering if these xtracolour enamels are any good with using for brush painting?

Humbrol's recent RLM colours are awful, with the classic Luftwaffe greys being waaaaay too dark to my eyes and they brush terribly as well, which I hope is only a problem with the new RLM formulas and not the direction Humbrol are going in for the future. Although their RLM 02 is very nice.

So, I presume some of you lot on here have used Xtracolours? If so, am I barking up the wrong tree?

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I have used Xtracolours, RAF and Luftwaffe. As with other gloss (or satin) colours the first coat will not go on well. I find the best approach is to use an undercoat of a similar colour but matt (preferably one of the old reliable Humbrols that approximate the required colour) and then apply the Xtracolour on the top. The same procedure works with Colourcoats.

I'm sorry to hear that about the new Humbrols, but it does seem to be the way they and other paints are going now. The more cynical part of me suggests that making a thinner, more airbrush-friendly, paint means using less pigment and so lowering the cost.

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OK thanks lads.

That's what I figured that I might have to do. Use an undercoat of Humbrol and then "scrub" the xtracolour on.

But, if Humbrol are going in the direction that I fear they are going in with their paint, then my modelling days are numbered. :weep:

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I've had no problems at all brushing with Humbrol acrylics or enamels. However, going on past experience I would not touch Xtracolour enamels with a bargepole. Very poor colour density, poor adhesion and inordinately long drying times (several days in some cases) put me right off and I binned every tin I had. Regardless of primer/undercoat & no matter what I did with regard to preparing the paint, I am sorry to say I found them next to useless. I was not impressed with Xtracrylix paints either although they did at least dry quickly. However, opacity and adhesion, in my experience were just as poor. I certainly won't be using them again. Just for the record, I had the Xtracolour RAF, WWII Luftwaffe, SAC, & Vietnam colours

Allan

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Toneyh

I moved from Humbrol to Xtracolour as I found their colours looked more "right" but as most have said above, they REALLY need a good undercoat and several thin coats - don't try to get good coverage in just one coat! Just don't try to brush their acylic cousins Xtracrylic.......and if you do manage to do this successfully, let me know how you did it!

The drying time issue is a pain in the proverbial, but you do get a nice hard, glossy finish that decals go straight on to.

Cheers

DC

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I use xtracolour enamel paints, both brushed and with the airbrush almost exclusively and have never been other than very pleased with them.

Yes they take a little longer to dry, but a good stint in the airing cupboard soon sorts that problem!

Tom

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I've found the new Humbrols in the blue tin wonderful for brushing. The colours are more accurate for the Raf stuff than the old tins particularly 163. Secret is what you thin the paint with I hear lighter fuel / naptha is best and makes them brush like silk :)

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So, does that mean that all of the new humbrol tins are using the same formula for paint as the mush maligned RLM colours?

If so, that really is bad news.

I amy have to buy up all of the stock of older tins that I can find.

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I have recently bought a few new normal humbrol tins and tbh they have been crap. Very corse paint particles despite heavy thinning and low pressures. So hit and miss at the moment I have found. Not sure when they stopped selling the crappy chinese mixes, but some of the recent ones seem just as bad :(

I have found xtracolor brush well but they need a good matt basecoat.

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They are fine if you stir them for a long time. I have bought recently a fresh batch of Humbrol Enamels , Pheonix Enamels, Wem Enamels and found them all to perform very well, Not much different TBH. But I have been adding Daler Rowney Low Odur Thinners. So that might be whats sorting them out.

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Oh dear. That's not good news.

Anyway, I've ordered them from Hannants, so they'll be hitting my shores during the week I suppose.

I've recently changed from Xtracolor to Mr Color but the drying part is easy to solve: Put a drop of Rustins dryers (In the UK, Brewers carry this) in about 10 ml cellulose thinners (or enamel but cellulose speeds up the drying ) and dip your brush with this before loading with paint or better still thin the Xtralocor in a separate pot with said mixture. Although I'm an airbrush man, this worked for a few tanks and quick builds and let me put down thin coats that dried hard in about 1-2 hours.

I was worried about contaminating the tins with solvent/dryers but no harm was done but be careful; getting paint dryers into a fresh pot of expensive paint may not be great idea...

It helps to use really good quality cellulose thinners from a car paints supplier rather than stuff sold in B&Q et al which seems to have lot of non solvent eco additives.

There is thread about WEM right here on BM that is very useful as well. The main thing is to persevere till you get something that works for you, I have gone through acrylics and enamels (WEM, Xtracolor and Modelmaster) till I finally hit the sweet spot with Mr Color, so patience and a systematic approach may work for you.

Anil

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I recently bought Humbrol's new RLM 02 and it was awful, like greasy tinted thinner or slurry, however much it was stirred beforehand. The prospect of applying repeated coats of that mess to try and build an opaque finish terminated the experiment. Life is too short.

There seems to be a real issue with Critical Pigment Volume Concentration (CPVC) in modern enamel paints as though the balance is not correct or inconsistent. Whether this is because the paint companies are doing the trying and testing only by spraying rather than brushing or simply because the manufacturing process is poor is hard to say but they are a far cry from the old Humbrol enamels that used to brush apply superbly. I have tins of Humbrol that are more than 30 years old where the paint performs far better than the new paints.

Nick

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So, my tins of RLM 74 and 75 arrived yesterday. I have to say that they look like they are going to be tough to tame. I brushed a spare 110 wing with a coat of each over a coat of matt primer. They're still not dry after a full 24 hours? That's a big wow right there. They also look a bit dark to me, but there was so much variation in RLM 74 and 75, that it's really a matter of opinion. Perhaps a touch of white will balance it out.

For the time being though, I'll have to stick to my own Humbrol formula, as I really don't wish to wreck a model trying to brush this stuff on, especially if I have to try and emulate a specific mottle pattern.

I'm crossing every finger and toe that the recent humbrol formula for their RLM paints is restricted to the RLM paints and not general formula across the board.

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Regarding the recent humbrol paints, I think their own enamel thinner maybe a factor in why I have had pretty crap results recently. I picked up some Mr.Color lacquer thinners the other day and tried spraying a few of the iffy tInlets I had and they sprayed far far better, their satin actually sprayed satin and they went on much finer (no coarse pigments like I had found with humbrol enamel thinner). Basically a much smoother, finer cote. If you are having trouble still, I recommend these thinners!

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