Beginner level brush painting questions

[NeilZR]

There is a lot of good advice here, I will ad mine. I started up again after a twenty year layoff, inspired by the terrific work shown on this site. So here we go:

1. buy a good set of brushes, chuck out all the old poorly cleaned ones.

2. for enamels, adopt a two cleaning jar method, one for initial clean, second for final.

3. cleanliness is everything, wash all surfaces before construction, and following assembly.

4. Klear is the greatest asset for decaling ever invented.

5. think about the order of assembly, and don't rush it.

6. practice, I bought some cheap 1/48 kits and used these to gain some skill, in all the areas of finishing.

I have a way to go, never used a weathering wash. Will not be going with an airbrush, never pass the household health and safety board! I am pleased with my progress, working up to do the Tamiya 1/32 Spitfire, and some of the Eduard kits.

[Croftona]

There's probably too much here to process, but I'll chuck some more in anyway!

Get a few sable brushes: the best I've used are from Rosemary and Co.

https://www.rosemaryandco.com/

Series 99 are what you want. A 1 and a 2 will do your cammo patterns and a 4 will do the block work on a single-engine 1/72. Add bigger as required! A good brush works so you won't even notice you're using it.

Thanks for this, but I can't find series 99 listed under sable brushes on their site?

[Mitch K]

Thanks for this, but I can't find series 99 listed under sable brushes on their site?

http://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-red-sable/pointed-pure-red-sable

These. Short handle is what you want.

[Croftona]

Thanks very much

[tonyot]

Ah ok I see, thank you for that.

Did you paint the brown first until it was completed and then move onto the green and do those layers, or did you do one of each, allow to dry then repeat.

Does it matter?

Sorry I should have explained better,.....yes paint the entire surface in the lighter colour first and when that is dry apply the darker disruptive pattern (in this case Green) over the top. I have since applied 2 more thin coats of green and here is the result, along with the acrylic paint that I used and the brushes;

Here is my build if you are interested in following it, seeing as you are a fellow `hairy Stick' painter;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234979498-new-airfix-148th-scale-hurricane-mki-what-a-great-kit/page-4

All the best

Tony

[steelpillow]

Couple more thoughts on classic painting technique:

Clean and degrease before painting. Paint doesn't stick to greasy finger marks.

Paint the fiddly bits first to get the paint in all the little crevices and corners, e.g. following panel lines, then brush out the whole surface in one direction (This applies to a single colour). I find that some acrylics dry too fast for this unless you add the correct thinners / flow enhancer / retarder.

When painting detail in a different colour, paint the main colour first unless there is a good reason why not (e.g. down a deep hole)

If the first coat covers well, then you are slapping it on too thick: build it up in layers.

Using fine abrasive of choice, rub down any blemishes - hairs, dust, drips, etc. between coats.

Cheap brushes are coarse and drop hairs. Mid-price brushes are good. Top-quality brushes are for top-quality craftsmen.

Edited April 8, 2015 by steelpillow

[Croftona]

Sorry I should have explained better,.....yes paint the entire surface in the lighter colour first and when that is dry apply the darker disruptive pattern (in this case Green) over the top

This was a light bulb moment for me Tony thanks, the 109 I finished recently has ugly overlap marks and I now know it's because the paint was too thick and also because I painted one pattern of camo and then the other in between it, where I tried to delicately trace inside one colour with the next it is also why I have overlap marks, I can see right away how much better it will be when I switch to painting the whole model in the lighter colour first and then add the darker camo afterwards.

Seems obvious now!

Incidentally, since reading your posts (and everyone else's too) in this thread, the pale portion of the underside of my Spitfire MK1a is looking so much better due to using several very thin layers.

Really appreciate everyone's input, tips and advice in this thread.

[HP42]

If you are brush painting with acrylics adding Flow Improver is an absolute must.you will not believe the difference. It's as close as you will ever get to air brushing with a paint brush. Get good brushes as well and look after them.

I read your comment whilst sitting in a Subway having my tea. On the strength of that I rushed over to the Range and bought some W&N Flow Improver as well as a set of acrylic brushes -so I hope you're right! (I know you are )

Does the flow improver help with airbrushing at all? I'm actually looking at reducing my airbrush use on account of it being expensive to run and a pain to clean all the time as well as set up. Quite honestly the latter is responsible for much of my slow work rate and detracts from the pleasure in the hobby. I'm looking at going back to brushes.

Can you suggest a 'dosage' of flow improver to paint and do you dilute the flow improver? The instructions say add 10% water, but is this necessary and would IP alcohol do?

[825]

I read your comment whilst sitting in a Subway having my tea. On the strength of that I rushed over to the Range and bought some W&N Flow Improver as well as a set of acrylic brushes -so I hope you're right! (I know you are )

Does the flow improver help with airbrushing at all? I'm actually looking at reducing my airbrush use on account of it being expensive to run and a pain to clean all the time as well as set up. Quite honestly the latter is responsible for much of my slow work rate and detracts from the pleasure in the hobby. I'm looking at going back to brushes.

Can you suggest a 'dosage' of flow improver to paint and do you dilute the flow improver? The instructions say add 10% water, but is this necessary and would IP alcohol do?

I add about 10% flow improver to get the paint to the consistency of single cream. If you use a colour a lot you will have to add some more to keep the consistency every so often. I usually use Xtracrylx and Revell Aqua with a smattering of Humbrol (British interior green and gunmetal difficult to beat). I've never used it in an air brush as I never really got on and as I work on the dining room table and the domestic authorities would probably have words to say. However there are loads of people on here who are much more knowledgeable on air brushing than I will ever be and I am sure good advice will soon flow.

[CedB]

"Can you suggest a 'dosage' of flow improver to paint and do you dilute the flow improver?"

HP I'm a relative newbie to flow improver - have a search for some of robvulcan's posts on BM...

For me it depends on how much I have to paint and the thickness of the paint but 'a few drops' seems to be enough, especially in the airbrush cup. I use Humbrol acrylics and, for smaller areas, I've started just putting one drop in the (well shaken) paint in the lid - you can see the surface tension break down immediately. Rob has mentioned he just tops up the paint pot.

Have an experiment, a little first and add 'to taste'.

[Beardie]

I wouldn't recommend using too much flow improver. A drop or two as CedB says. I don't believe that using more than a little will have any additional benefit and may actually affect the durability and ability of the paint to adhere. Flow improver is actually a detergent just like that used in household washing up liquid (without all the goo, colours and smells that are added to washing up liquid) and it's sole purpose is to break the surface tension of the water in the paint which otherwise causes your paint to "bead" on the surface and for this purpose very little is needed and more than that will not make a difference to how it flows. Some acrylic users actually only add a few drops of flow improver to the pot of water that they use for mixing rather than directly to the paint

[Croftona]

Going back to the subject of using Micromesh between coats, I have just purchased a set and would appreciate some guidance on which one to use to sand paint before applying the next coat?

[robvulcan]

"Good brushes" needs some clarification in my experience. I was using Humbrol acrylics with the odd tin of enamel. Croftona you need to put us out of our misery - are you using acrylics or enamel and whose!!! I started with cheap Humbrol brushes and then 'invested' in some more expensive sable brushes. robvulcan put me right:

"Any [brushes] really but I just use for the last few years a cheap pack of reeves white bristle brushes which are a synthetic hair designed for used with acylics.

I don't like brown hair ones as the paint clumps up in the hair platelets. With a synthetic you get a perfect smooth strand which influences the way the paint is layed on."

He's right, of course. Follow the thread here. If you're using acrylics then the Reeves brushes and flow improver, both of which are relatively cheap, will change your life - honest! Of course that's assuming you're following the 'multiple thin coats' rule rather than trying to clump it on in one coat.

ahha, I aint no guru mate. Just someone whos had far to much time on their hands last few years.

Yep I have only tried with the following paints, Revell Aqua, Humrol, Citadel, Decoart Acrylics. But I always add a dollop of W&N Flow Improver and mix it in, Not to a scientific measure, Each tub of paint is different but it will thin the paint to that of ink but retain the pigment density and reduce the cure time stopping the paint ripping up under the brush and allow it to self level.

I brush over a primed surface always Humbrol Matt spray cans as they give such a tough and incredible finish, The brush paints will replicate this as it shrinks onto it , Depends on the colour of paint but 1 to 3 coats will do you.

I use Reeves White bristle or brushes for Acrylic paint.

This models Green was brush painted with 3 coats of Revell Aqua Gelbolive.

Hope this helps. I turned to brushing when my Ab compressor exploded and I had lost my temper with it. Brushes are more relaxing

Edited April 15, 2015 by robvulcan

[Croftona]

Thanks Rob, do you sand the paint between coats? if so what density of paper do you use for that?

[robvulcan]

Thanks Rob, do you sand the paint between coats? if so what density of paper do you use for that?

Nope just brush it on not to thin not to thick, Don't be to careful just slap it on, Flat brushes are best so you can kinda spread it. If you do need to get a rough patch out or a piece of debris its best to use micro mesh pads. I recommend you get the £14 set from Little Cars has all the grades of pads you need cloth and cream. Not that you need it all the time but its useful for many other things too.

Just another thing the model above I broke the rules, Green first then grey which was applied with a rattle can misted over a blue tak masking. I find it gives better results for me as I find trying to mask off grey areas screws my mind up but masking off the green I want to keep is easier as its the dominant colour. If I do it the other way its harder to visualize. I used to do it the other way around but no more.

Edited April 15, 2015 by robvulcan

[Croftona]

Thanks mate, I picked up some of the Reeves acrylic brushes today as it happens, white nylon ones, interesting that you say just slap it on, I think when I started I was using layers that were way too thick, which resulted in horrible dryed overlap marks and smears in the finish, so I guess using several thin layers eliminates those and the need to be overfly fussy or careful about keeping every single brush stroke in precisely the same direction!

Thanks.

[robvulcan]

Thanks mate, I picked up some of the Reeves acrylic brushes today as it happens, white nylon ones, interesting that you say just slap it on, I think when I started I was using layers that were way too thick, which resulted in horrible dryed overlap marks and smears in the finish, so I guess using several thin layers eliminates those and the need to be overfly fussy or careful about keeping every single brush stroke in precisely the same direction!

Thanks.

Well I don't mean like a Tsunami ahah, But if you have to little on it can dry a bit quick, To mush and your in trouble, Just some where thats wet and gives you lots of work time. Practice on a junker kit or piece of plasticard or something. Old toy car with primer maybe

[Croftona]

Another query guys, what do people use to wipe clean a model after handling and before painting or between paint layers to get rid of sticky finger prints and such like?

[robvulcan]

I've never bothered just make sure my

Hands are clean betwean handling.

I however want to look at tak tack cloths from Halfords as I hear it helps deter debris and static attracted dust particles when clear coating over white for example, I don't know how true this is ?

[Mitch K]

Tack cloths are incredibly useful things for picking off invisible pieces of dust and grit. I use them on model aircraft but came to them from decorating and carpentry. Any DIY store should carry them, about a pound each, and on model aircraft they will last forever if you keep turning them.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Mitch K

[robvulcan]

Tack cloths are incredibly useful things for picking off invisible pieces of dust and grit. I use them on model aircraft but came to them from decorating and carpentry. Any DIY store should carry them, about a pound each, and on model aircraft they will last forever if you keep turning them.

Sounds great. I get frustrated when painting white aircraft and atthe final stage applying the varnish there is nearly always tiny little flecks of dust accompanied by loud swearing to deal with. I am convinced the dust is in the Varnish.

Must be something im doing wrong

[Croftona]

I've never bothered just make sure my

Hands are clean betwean handling

You're sure you're washing them properly?

:-)

[steelpillow]

I try to keep my hand clean while making the model. The various filing and sanding operations that go on usually create enough dust to pick up anything other than the heaviest deposits of mould release agent (miniature equivalent of using sand to mop up outdoor spills). Worst case, e.g. an accident with a jam sandwich, and a little methylated spirits or isopropyl alcohol will remove both jam and grease. I also dust off with a large, fine soft brush before painting large areas. If it's a dry day, static may make dust stick, usually blowing on gently it adds enough moisture to discharge the static and let it brush off.

[Croftona]

Back to Micromesh if I may, the instructions say it's best used wet, how wet is the right level of wet?! (let's keep it clean boys) and won't that dilute the acrylic paint already on the model?

[Mitch K]

Wet enough to ensure that dust etc is in a sort of "slop". Well, that's what I was taught doing vehicle refinishes decades ago...