Germanwings A320 Crash in the French Alps

[Doug Rogers]

Yes, it's horrible to see the faces of grief stricken relatives. Worst one is when the reporter asks them how they feel...

[jasman71]

And have you noticed, whenever the news hounds interview anyone, and they (the interviewee) starts to cry, the camera ALWAYS zooms in on them! Grrrrr why do we need to see it in the first place, let alone close up?

[stever219]

Re. PanzerVor's comment on the ANZ A320 crash IIRC the crew were carrying out a stall warning/stall recovery test but had allowed the aeroplane to descend to an altitude at which recovery from a fully-developed stall proved to be impossible. I could be wrong; hopefully someone who knows more/better will confirm or repudiate this.

Can't help but agree with the comments about crass reporters and respecting the families of the victims: haven't they got enough to deal with without some over paid moron shoving a mic and camera in their faces and asking them stupid questions? I was shocked to hear that relatives were being flown to the crash site: even on TV it looks horrific enough and the rescuers will not be having an easy time of it by any stretch, so walking (or flying) into that horror and finding or seeing what appear to be parts of a family member or friend does not bear thinking about.

Looking at the destruction of the jet the only parts that I saw and recognised were part of the fin and a tyre. My thoughts and prayers are for and with the victims, their families and friends and those who have to find out what went wrong, how and why.

[coneheadff]

I feel terrible!

We share the hangar with Lufthansa Technik and as far as I remember the aircraft was there last week. We are all shocked. What a tragedy!

[phildagreek]

As always it's the news programme's speculation. So called "experts" who clearly aren't, studio presenters who clearly wouldn't recognise an aircraft at ten feet & the reporter on the scene, little information to hand talking total (rude word) & being allowed to gabble on.

Complete & utter nightmare of a situation.

[Mark]

I've kept quiet about this, but as a current A320 pilot, with a lo-cost airline and living within an hour of the Alps, this is close to home.

As always after an aircraft accident, the usual bullplop is being spouted on TV and in the press.

I would like to say thank you to the entire Britmodeller community for not adding to the speculation seen elsewhere on the Internet.

A sad tragedy and RIP to the passengers and crew. My thoughts are with the grieving families and friends.

[Sebastien]

According to the French prosecutor, and from all the data he had from the Cockpit Voice Recorder, the crash is the result of a deliberate action from the copilot.

Regards,

S.

[Mike]

Article snippet about the "intentional descent".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Please keep any baseless speculation out of this thread - there's enough poppycock being talked on the subject in the media already

[Sebastien]

Mike,

I typed my message while listening to the prosecutor's press conference.

S.

[Nigel Foster60]

It almost does not bear thinking about, imagine how the young pilots family are going to feel. All too sad for words.

[Vally G]

"Tragedy" is an overused word, but it certainly fits here.

[Mike]

Mike,

I typed my message while listening to the prosecutor's press conference.

S.

That's fine - I wasn't having a go at you though - I was backing you up with some evidence in case you got told you were speculating

[Av8fan]

My condolances to the families and the friends of the victims.

Words are not sufficient at these times.

[Flying Badger]

If, as the prosecutor is implying, this is a deliberate act by the co-pilot then it is the 2nd such crash in just over a year (the other being the crash in Namibia in November 2013).

Its unlikely to be sudden illness as the secure cockpit door procedure for the A320 includes a method for cabin crew to access the cockpit in the event of flight crew incapacitation: having tried several times to contact the cockpit and failed they enter a code into the door control panel. That sounds a buzzer in the cockpit for 30sec and if nothing happens then door is unlocked for 5 sec.

BUT.... the flight crew can override the access attempt during that 30 sec... the most obviously reason they might do that is if the cabin crew are being held at knife point etc. they might give up the code so the pilots need to stop any potential hijackers getting access to the cockpit (the prosecutor seems to have ruled out terrorism in this case).

So in this crash unless some very unlikely sequence of events happened (and I'm not ruling that out as I, like everyone else, don't have all the facts yet) if the co-pilot in the cockpit had a heart attack or stroke or some other incapacitating event and somehow set the aircraft into a descent.... then the cabin crew would have had both the means and plenty of time to access the cockpit and arrest the descent, called emergency and headed for Marseille (with its nice big runways etc).

On the other hand if the co-pilot wasn't incapacitated then he'd be able to continuously override the access requests and fly the plane into the ground.

Unfortunately it appears that this second scenario is currently the most probable from the information currently in the public domain, and that is tragic as others have already said. That one persons illness (and mental health issues leading to a wish to commit suicide is most definitely an illness) should lead to the deaths of so many.

RIP

[Flying Badger]

I think the design of the system / protocols around strengthened cockpit doors might be being re-examined over the next few months, which is probably a good thing. Not sure how you solve it and balance the risk without undermining the purpose of the strengthened cockpit doors, but I guess that's why they need really smart systems engineers etc. to work in aviation design.

[FalkeEins]

... it is starting to look as if the reality of this tragedy is far more shocking than any 'speculation' hitherto. There's been a lot of waffle about LH's safety of culture these past few days, but perhaps the next factor to look at is LH's fraught and increasingly bitter ongoing dispute with its crews (prior to this tragedy), including the reorganisation of the lo-cost arm..

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/18/uk-lufthansa-strikes-idUKKBN0ME0GY20150318

[Paul J]

I said to my mate at work yesterday that I suspect suicide. It seems it MAY be the case. Its not unknown of pilots comitting suicide but not in airliners. They are looking at the co pilots medical history by the sound of it.

[tempestfan]

I haven't followed the prosecutor's press conference, but what is unclear from what I've read so far about it is whether the Captain actually followed the protocol as described, in other words if the 30 sec. buzzer of the emergency protocol was actually recorded by the CVR. Was there any definite statement ? If that was the case, then there hardly can remain any doubt, from my understanding of the system.

If this sequence of events is proven right, it would be really horrific on one hand, but have some consolation in it, too - it would show that even 24 year old 320s are technically still very safe planes to travel with, which will mean much to many people travelling by air often.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tempestfan

[FalkeEins]

" the co-pilot ..alone in the cockpit ...was breathing normally throughout .."

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1571931-20150326-direct-crash-avion-a320-alpes-pilotes-coince-hors-cockpit-familles-attendues-place

Edited March 26, 2015 by FalkeEins

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

I suppose what this tragedy really says, is that it's quite often not a system fault, it's a human 'fault' that causes things like this. Truly too terrible to contemplate.

I wonder whether we might see the return of the 3 man cockpit - with a 2 crew on the flight deck at all times rule. Would probably be too expensive I guess - but how do you keep the flightdeck secure, yet allow crew to gain entry from the passenger area without compromising it?

Jonners

[RNoAF Aerobatic Team]

It makes the accident even more tragic. ...

Edited March 26, 2015 by RNoAF Aerobatic Team

[bzn20]

David Learmont,the only man worth listening to,was spot on with his thoughts and statistical analysis on the day of the crash.

What an incredibly sad, terrifying and horrific story.

RIP

[tempestfan]

" the co-pilot ..alone in the cockpit ...was breathing normally throughout .."

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1571931-20150326-direct-crash-avion-a320-alpes-pilotes-coince-hors-cockpit-familles-attendues-place

But what exactly does it imply, I wonder ? People who have lost consciousness probably keep on breathing normally, too. That's why I consider the emergency buzzer very relevant. If it didn't sound, there would be no definite proof that the copilot locked the door. And I'd expect someone about to fly into a mountainside with high speed to show signs of stress in the last few seconds, determined as he may be. Even though the fact of the evident/apparent manipulation of the autopilot remains, I'd not consider this case fully closed yet.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tempestfan

[Mike]

"breathing normally" probably covers a wide range of rates, I'd have thought. It just rules out the possibility that he died at the controls prior to the crash. We'll have to wait for more information as to what that means, and he could still have been unconscious but breathing, although that doesn't explain the buzzer over-ride. The truth will out, just not as fast as people would like. better for it to be slower to come to light than reach the wrong conclusion from a hasty investigation.

[Rich G]

I think this another case of suicide by pilot like the air asia flight and several other recorded incidents.

Manual input into the flight control computer to descend the aircraft, change in co-pilots behaviour towards the pilot and refusing to let the pilot back into the cockpit may not be clearcut on their own but when you take them together it looks very much like a wilful act.

Obviously it's still early stages but we already have the majority of facts you would likely get from the flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders. What will come now is an invetigation into the co-pilots background and home etc to try and find any evidence that might support this view.

Rich

Edited March 26, 2015 by Rich G