Vol 2 All the Spitfire questions here

[Beard]

1 hour ago, Bonhoff said:

Kitbashing Query.

 

Is it possible to make a 1/72 MkXII by nailing a Griffon engine to a MkIX? Thinking Airfix 22 and IX here...

 

TIA

 

Sword do a Seafire XV, which had a single-stage Griffon, so you could stick the nose on one of their VCs or Seafires (some of their latest Seafire boxings come with a spare Spitfire fuselage and wings). The Spitfire XII had a bulge between the rocker bulges which the Seafire XV didn't have but you could make one from a narrow cannon cover bulge.

You could even convert the Sword Seafire XV to a Spitfire XII but you'd need to add the bulge, replace one of the radiators with a MkV oil cooler, deal with the folding wings (possibly by cross-kitting with a VC or IX), get rid of the arrestor hook and change the cannon (the XV had shorter cannon than the XII, which also had the cannon stubs). Also, I'm not sure if the XV's propellor and rudder are suitable for a XII.

All of this is doable but it might be easier to find an Xtrakit XII or an Aeroclub conversion.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Beard
to add information (edit in bold)

[Graham Boak]

You could also try asking for a Ventura Seafire Mk.XV, which is basically a Mk.12 and does come with a 4-blade prop and appropriate spinner..  

 

I suspect that adding a Mk.22 nose would require some rework to the underside lines, as this was not just a parallel extension.  Probably not difficult.  I'm not sure whether the spinner would be the right length.

[malpaso]

I was planning to create a 1/72 Mk.XII mainly because I like the XII from the famous Charles Brown banking shots, and I was going to do it in flight thus by kit-mingling Airfix Vb, 22 & XIX (as I got them cheap from Home Bargains).  But then I found the Aeroclub conversion at Bovington in February, the advantage being it comes with the left-hand Griffon 4 blader ,correct vac canopy and whitemetal exhausts and undercarriage so it might be a candidate for the ground now.  Of couse you do have to cut out the fuse from a vacsheet (only 2 parts – an easy intro to vac form kits – I hope) and modify whichever wings chosen to suit the correct aileron, armament and rads combination.  And find the right codes and serials.

 

Obviously it would be easier to build the Airfix 1/48 Mk.XII, but where’s the fun in that?

 

Cheers

Will

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bonhoff said:

Kitbashing Query.

 

Is it possible to make a 1/72 MkXII by nailing a Griffon engine to a MkIX? Thinking Airfix 22 and IX here...

 

TIA

 

 

It's easy to solve but you'd have to buy two kits, plus nick the spares from a third!  

 

Sword Seafire XV Late with the sting hook.  This gives you the correct fuselage without the fishplate strengtheners of the early XV with the A frame hook.  

 

Then you get a Sword Seafire II OR Seafire III.  Doesn't matter which, because you get a mk Vc wing in both, which you'll add to the Seafire XV fuselage above to get your mk XII.

 

At this stage, you've got pretty much everything you need, apart from the teardrop blister above the engine cowling which is prominent on the XII and the mk V style oil cooler.  The latter can be stolen from an Airfix Spitfire mk I/IIa or Va kit, which you then build as either of the other mks.  The former can be fashioned with some plastic card and sanding.

 

Okay, it may sound expensive, but this way, you'll get three models with minimal outlay and even less surgery, plus quite probably some extras left over for the spares box.

 

Alternatively, try tracking down an Xtrakit mk XII, the old Aeroclub vacform fuselage conversion (which was intended to go with an Airfix mk I wing, but gave all the relevant bits necessary).  Both of these options are thing on the ground but do turn up with some frequency with the second hand traders at the shows.

 

There's also the Brigade mk XII fuselage conversion.  The latter is also about as a conversion for the Seafire XV, but the plastic is identical in both and only the decals change. The Brigade conversions are geared to got with Italeri's vile abortions of the Spitfire, but can and do fit other kits - I bodged a whiff IVa with the new tool Airfix mk Ia wing and I know it'll take an Airfix IXc wing.

 

Finally - and this will be expensive unless you find a cheap one - CMR do a complete resin kit of the mk XII.

[72modeler]

10 minutes ago, The Wooksta! said:

 

 

It's easy to solve but you'd have to buy two kits, plus nick the spares from a third!  

 

Sword Seafire XV Late with the sting hook.  This gives you the correct fuselage without the fishplate strengtheners of the early XV with the A frame hook.  

 

Then you get a Sword Seafire II OR Seafire III.  Doesn't matter which, because you get a mk Vc wing in both, which you'll add to the Seafire XV fuselage above to get your mk XII.

 

At this stage, you've got pretty much everything you need, apart from the teardrop blister above the engine cowling which is prominent on the XII and the mk V style oil cooler.  The latter can be stolen from an Airfix Spitfire mk I/IIa or Va kit, which you then build as either of the other mks.  The former can be fashioned with some plastic card and sanding.

 

Okay, it may sound expensive, but this way, you'll get three models with minimal outlay and even less surgery, plus quite probably some extras left over for the spares box.

 

Alternatively, try tracking down an Xtrakit mk XII, the old Aeroclub vacform fuselage conversion (which was intended to go with an Airfix mk I wing, but gave all the relevant bits necessary).  Both of these options are thing on the ground but do turn up with some frequency with the second hand traders at the shows.

 

There's also the Brigade mk XII fuselage conversion.  The latter is also about as a conversion for the Seafire XV, but the plastic is identical in both and only the decals change. The Brigade conversions are geared to got with Italeri's vile abortions of the Spitfire, but can and do fit other kits - I bodged a whiff IVa with the new tool Airfix mk Ia wing and I know it'll take an Airfix IXc wing.

 

Finally - and this will be expensive unless you find a cheap one - CMR do a complete resin kit of the mk XII.

What the 'W' said! There's also the OOP Paragon resin conversion set, which was made for the Hasegawa Mk VII/VII/IX kits, IIRC, but would probably fit others as well; probably impossible to find, but you never know! I have one, and it is excellent, but I can't decide which maker's kit to use or should I hold off, hoping we get a new-tool that does it justice? I have the Xtrakit XII, and it is OK, but the prop and decals aren't very good, and that 4-blade opposite rotation prop fitted to that big spinner is one of the salient features of the marque. I think the XII is the nastiest-looking Spit of them all, and Jeffrey Quill was quoted as saying it was his favorite Spitfire of all the versions that he flew- good enough for me! Gotta be MB882, the last one built for me! I think I read someplace that either Sword or Special Hobby had announced a new-tool XII in God's Own Scale- but you know how that goes! My best buddy did one, using the Paragon conversion and the Hasegawa IX, as the one he wanted to do was from the first batch that used Vc airframes; he used a resin and etched cockpit and it was a beaut! (For an airplane they only built a hundred of, it sure has a large and devoted fan base!)

Mike

[Graham Boak]

That old myth again - all of the Mk.XIIs used Mk.Vc wings - none of them used Mk.V fuselages as they were new-build and specific to type (though I think that they ended up on the Mk.VIII and later) but the first batch did use Mk.V tails.

 

I thought that the Mk.VIII was Quill's favourite...maybe just because it's mine!

[72modeler]

11 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

That old myth again - all of the Mk.XIIs used Mk.Vc wings - none of them used Mk.V fuselages as they were new-build and specific to type (though I think that they ended up on the Mk.VIII and later) but the first batch did use Mk.V tails.

 

I thought that the Mk.VIII was Quill's favourite...maybe just because it's mine!

Graham,

 

I forgot that all the XII's  were C-wings, which is why I had pretty much decided to use an Eduard IXc instead of a Hasegawa kit for my Paragon conversion after I saw what the Eduard kit looked like. After re-reading the Spitfire 'Bible,' I did see that the MB serial batch were to be built   to Mk III/VIII standards, so I'm guessing that's why they had the retractable tail wheel. Think it might have been the Mk VIII that Quill said was the best-flying of the bunch, but maybe not his 'favorite?' Thanks for the corrections- that's one of the reasons I visit BM daily! (I'm not worthy!)

 

I did find a written reference to an interview with Quill where  he  commented that in his opinion the Mk VIII was the best-flying of all the marques- so bonus points for you, my friend! Is my understanding correct that the first batch of XII's were Mk Vc based and the second batch were Mk VIII based? I know that in many instances the version/s listed in a contracted serial range were not necessarily the versions that were finally produced.

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by 72modeler
corrected information.

[Beard]

1 hour ago, The Wooksta! said:

[...] the old Aeroclub vacform fuselage conversion (which was intended to go with an Airfix mk I wing, but gave all the relevant bits necessary).

 

So that's why the one I bought the other day had the 1970s Spitfire mkI with it.

I thought it was designed for the Revell MkV. You've saved me some cash there, thank you.

[Guest]

The conversion pre-dates the Revell V by a good decade!  Probably worth using the spare bulkhead and instrument panel in the Eduard kits though.

[gingerbob]

I think it was DP845 that Quill said was his favorite, and he was talking about fun to fly rather than to take into combat.

 

 

[Beard]

1 minute ago, The Wooksta! said:

The conversion pre-dates the Revell V by a good decade!  Probably worth using the spare bulkhead and instrument panel in the Eduard kits though.

 

How I believed it was for the Revell V, I can't explain. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion of using Eduard spares. I might see if one of the spare AZ cockpits fits in the Airfix fuselage.

[Meatbox8]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this so far but I think the thrust line of the Griffon on the MkXII is somewhat different to other Griffon powered Spitfires.  This could possibly be because the MkXII's installation was shorter but it is quite noticeable on the Xtrakit model when one compares it to, say a MkXIV. 

[PhantomBigStu]

does the sword xiv bubble top come with the highback spitfire canopy? 

 

edit: seems no, at least accroding to my spares box, disspoointing, have the highback fuselage spare and an eduard IX without a canopy, would save dealing with eduard spares, though I suspect that project would be forlorn as I seem to be missing the XIV cowl.

Edited May 2, 2017 by PhantomBigStu

[Guest]

Quickboost do a replacement top cowl, albeit for the Fujimi XIV but it will fit the Sword - I've test fitted it.   I've a feeling Rob Taurus did a canopy for the Sword Vc which may well fit the Sword XIV highback.  Failing that, there's always this splendid set from Falcon.

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/FNCV4172

 

Everything you could ever need for Spitfires in there and surprisingly good value.

 

 

[Cookenbacher]

I attempted this, but could not find any Falcon, Tamiya, Eduard or AZ canopy to fit the spare Sword high back fuselage - it's a little wide for them all.

[Guest]

Academy or Special Hobby?  Their fuselages are definitely several sandwiches more than a picnic...

[PhantomBigStu]

7 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

I attempted this, but could not find any Falcon, Tamiya, Eduard or AZ canopy to fit the spare Sword high back fuselage - it's a little wide for them all.

 

That sucks, guess the fuselage will go back in the spares box, unless I can try to convert it to low back.

[Cookenbacher]

4 hours ago, The Wooksta! said:

Academy or Special Hobby?  Their fuselages are definitely several sandwiches more than a picnic...

That's a good idea. The Fujimi my also be worth a try.

[Guest]

I'm sure one of the Falcon canopies is intended to fit the Fujimi highback.

 

I've had similar issues with the Hobbyboss kit (no sniggering at the back!), and in the end just used the part supplied.

[Seahawk]

4 minutes ago, The Wooksta! said:

I'm sure one of the Falcon canopies is intended to fit the Fujimi highback.

 

 

Correct.  Set 41, item 13.

[PhantomBigStu]

On 04/05/2017 at 11:38 AM, PhantomBigStu said:

 

That sucks, guess the fuselage will go back in the spares box, unless I can try to convert it to low back.

 

Quite tempted to try this, shouldn't be that hard to cut it down and reshape the fuselage top. Just a case of fiding the right line to cut along

Edited May 5, 2017 by PhantomBigStu

[Cookenbacher]

Here's the Sword Mk 14 high back fuselage with the Fujimi canopy:

 

The sliding section fits well, but the windscreen is a bit long while the rear portion is too tall.

 

Here it is with a canopy taken from the Sword Seafire III kit.

 

Ahh, just right. Unfortunately, that's not a spare - I'd like to use that canopy on a Seafire III.

 

Here it is with an AZ Mk V canopy (I've built all my joypacks!).

 

This is very indicative as to how the canopies from Eduard, Tamiya and my one attempt with a Falcon canopy all fit. I tried building up the rear section with plasticard, but it still looked funny because the canopy was narrow as well as short.

 

My plan was to use a Tamiya wind screen, an 'open' version of the Eduard sliding section, and a scratch made rear section from clear plastic sheet and just display it open. I still think that a moderately skilled modeller could make this happen, but I could not. You can read the sad account here, if you're interested.

 

I ended up mating the fuselage of an Eduard Mk VIII with the nose of an Airfix Mk 22 and the tail of a Special Hobby Mk 21. I hoping for success with the Eduard canopy fitting the Eduard fuselage!

[Meatbox8]

I wondered what the consensus is for the new Revell Spitfire IIa kit in 1/72nd scale.  I know it has received some criticism and the armoured windscreen looks well out, but this is not an insurmountable problem.  How does the rest of it stack up though?  I'm not a huge fan of the Airfix kit in this scale and actually prefer their older tooling, raised panel lines and all.  The recessed panel lines on their new kit are well known for being a bit excessive but I also think they haven't quite got the elliptical wing shape right.   So, is it possible to build a decent Spitfire II from the Revell kit or is it a compete dog?

Edited May 13, 2017 by Meatbox8
typo

[PhantomBigStu]

26 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said:

I wondered what the consensus is for the new Revell Spitfire IIa kit in 1/72nd scale.  I know it has received some criticism and the armoured windscreen looks well out, but this is not an insurmountable problem.  How does the rest of it stack up though?  I'm not a huge fan of the Airfix kit in this scale and actually prefer their older tooling, raised panel lines and all.  The recessed panel lines on their new kit are well known for being a bit excessive but I also think they haven't quite got the elliptical wing shape right.   So, is it possible to build a decent Spitfire II from the Revell kit or is it a compete dog?

 

 

What do you mean by that? Don't see any issue on that front

 

Which reminds me, is there any way to make the old tool revell VB into a decent representation? theres one sitting in my LHS that no ones buying, is it just a case of replacing the lower wings and spinner? If so whats the diffence between a B wing underside and a C wing? 

Edited May 13, 2017 by PhantomBigStu

[Troy Smith]

19 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

 

 

What do you mean by that? Don't see any issue on that front

 

Which reminds me, is there any way to make the old tool revell VB into a decent representation? theres one sitting in my LHS that no ones buying, is it just a case of replacing the lower wings and spinner? If so whats the diffence between a B wing underside and a C wing? 

 

The B wing has a large bulge, for cannon drum,plus different panel lines.  The C wing inner 0.303 also moved outside a bay.

Converting a B to C wing is not that difficult for an experienced modeller.

 

Quote

Comparison of armament layout between type A (middle) , B (top) and C (bottom) wings on Spitfire Mk. V.
Note the difference in the placement of inner .303″ Browning on C wing.

 

more here

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2

 

it should be noted the C wing UC is raked forward compared to the A/B wing

 

Quote

the C wing introduced a 2 degree [iirc] forward rake to UC geometry.

VB

VC

Foward rake is obvious.

 

HTH

T