Jump to content

80s NATO Europe vs Warsaw Pact GB Chat


Recommended Posts

Honestly it might be easiest to spell out the specific countries that are eligible. That will help reduce the "grey areas". Also updating the OP w/ the revised/clarified scope will help make finding the relevant information easier.....instead of trying to dig through a dozen plus pages throughout the various twists and turns. Hats off to the mods managing this one though...it's been a can of worms for sure! :thumbsup:

I may be out of this one w/ the reduction/refocusing/clarification of scope. The kit I just picked up that was going to be built for this GB and for another GB on another site will no longer apply. I just don't have enough time available to build that many kits simultaneously in the prescribed timeframes. My issue, no fault of anyone here. Such is life. :drink:

I will be following the builds though, as the Cold War is my favorite era for military aviation. Cheers!

Edited by helios16v
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't want to muddy the already murky waters on eligibility, but as Greece and Turkey have now been excluded from the NATO side how do we stand with Bulgaria and Romania from the Warsaw Pact side? I only ask as it will affect what I decide to build and I don't want to gather materials/info for a build to then have to change tack.

Hmmmm If the hosts wants it to be centric europe and if you exclude Greece and Turkey(understandable eurasia). Where do we stand than with Norway, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and Italy. They are all not in the centre of europe?!

I know I am opening a can of worms :worms: now, But I (and I think some of the guys in the GB) wants some more clarity.

As after reading the first posts when this GB got started I think that the water boys will be a little bit crossed. In the beginning they were included and now they are not. I am not a ship builder, but I thought the scope was a little bit more widder than what I hear now. :hmmm:

If you guys would have includded Iceland than everybody would be happy and there wouldn't have been such a big discussion.

This is only my :2c: about this.

I hope I haven't offended anybody with this. If so :sorry:

Now I will :shutup:

Cheers,

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think your right Arnold, i personally want some clarity as to what builds are in and what are out? as my typhoon build had the reach from the artic circle to the central theatre, even being capable of launching while in port.

So i gather that this GB is being limited to conventional weapons, (non nuclear) which is another can of worms for the bomber guys.

Confused Chris :hypnotised:

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do hope its more (fully) inclusive as thats part of the reason I went with this GB - to see all sorts of stuff, land sea and air from the period.

However I suspect Ive missed the original spirit of the GB which would explain my baffle.

Well done for not just chucking the towel in Mod Guys. :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Mod hosts really need to come up with a definite set of rules of what is and isn't allowed because a post above seems to contradict another post of the group build rules in the "sticky" in the group build folder.

Greece and Turkey have just fallen by the wayside, Spain and Portugal next? Norway must be on shaky ground as well.

I was told my ship entry was fine last week but today I don't see how it can be done hence my withdrawal. Shipbuilders were welcomed from the moment this group build was announced and are included in the rules "sticky" but now the post above suggests the build has to be something that appears in or above central Europe along the DDR/GDR - Czech border, now I don't know but I'm pretty sure there weren't many ships facing down the 3rd Shock Army. I have to conclude therefore that that shipbuilders are no longer included in this group build, if this is so it really should have been made clear back when the group build was first announced rather than two days before it commences.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant

Edited by Col.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please have some patience with us. I understand the need for clarity and we are working hard to establish this with considerable discussion going on behind the scenes. It's important to each of the mod team we get this correct before the GB starts and can lay down a clear set of guidelines for everyone to work with.

I appreciate the support and opinions from everyone who has taken the time to post, rest assured they are being taken into consideration, with this in mind please do not change or withdraw your entries until we've finalised everything. This is proving much more complicated than any of us envisaged.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Would a T55 or T62 be eligible?

So long as theyve not got a copy of "that book" aboard or are intending to travel to Iceland from Greece, Id imagine youd be fine. :D

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Would a T55 or T62 be eligible?

Up until today, I would have said yes, assuming you can find decals appropriate for the operator and time period, but the rules appear to be in a state of flux at the minute, so I'd hold off buying anything until its been clarified.

Craig

Edited by specky
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have beer, so please excuse me... however....

Europe, NATO & Warsaw Pact. Cmon.... its as easy and broad as that, Shirley. Got the corners covered by the "must have been based or at least posted out to Europe at some point, evidence required if dubious".

Job done. Be it land sea or air.

Itll be glorious with all sorts of weird, wonderful, rare and Phantom things. I cant think of a more fun GB than that or more appropriate for a British based modelling forum outside of a WW1 or WW2 GB.

Biggest, most varied and popular GB ever? Come on Mods, it could be You making that happen.

Have a beer, relax and learn to love Iceland n Greece, theyre cool too. If you dont, I swear Ill give my Frogfoot to a child with a selection of emulsions.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to thank everyone for the support they have shown the Mod's with this subject, it is really nice to be appreciated for all the hard work then is involved behind the scenes in trying to to organize, define and setup a truly complex GB which this has turned into!

What should have been a fairly simple and straight forward GB has turned into a bun fight which according to some of the posts is my fault!!

In the interests of keeping "people" happy I'm dropping out the active MOD role and will stay behind the scenes to help keep this show going.

The guy's still working hard behind the scenes to try and sort out the mess this has become.

Hopefully now everyone can calm down and just get on with building models which is why we are here in the first place!!!!

I would suggest in future before people jump up and down at Mod's they have a go themselves, it's not an easy and generally thankless job try to keep everyone happy!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its only plastic n glue, Rich, dont worry about it.

My posts are always rather tongue in cheek, please dont take any to heart and thanks again for having the patience with stuff in general.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich your work is much appreciated, as is the mods. This is a group build that seems to have taken a life on of its own, from the earlier posts it seemed fairly straightforward but the theme seems to have diverged?

I dont hold you to blame, Sh*t Happens.

Were here to build models at the end of it, so everybody chill, no need for mud slinging, were on here to get away from this sort of thing.

If my model is in its in, if not so be it.

All the best Chris

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich.

You must never see this as an "attack" on you!!!!

But the rules and information on this GB has been rather diffuse.

As I have stated before that when a GB is named 80s Nato Europe vs Warszawa pact GB and you start to exclude European countries and NATO countries that was highly active in the"war" against Warszaw pact there is something wrong.

This should be right fom the start and get go...

Cheers

Ørjan

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be hard to perceive what's been posted as not personally critical.

A lot of hassle would be avoided if you approach the GB from the point of view "it's a groupbuild about 1980s tensions between certain NATO and Warsaw pact countries in the central European theatre, do I have a suitable subject in the stash?" rather than "oh, a general 80s NATO/Warsaw pact GB, here's my chance to build that [favoured subject] kit in the stash" and trying to shoehorn it into the lineup.

Keep it simple, stick to the rules, and try to finish a build by the deadline. It's not that hard, surely?

Edited by Alan P
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So long as theyve not got a copy of "that book" aboard or are intending to travel to Iceland from Greece, Id imagine youd be fine. :D

Up until today, I would have said yes, assuming you can find decals appropriate for the operator and time period, but the rules appear to be in a state of flux at the minute, so I'd hold off buying anything until its been clarified.

Craig

Thanks for the replies. I think I might just take your advice Craig and hold off until the discussion is concluded. :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To avoid us all scrolling through the 19 pages of discussion here's Paul's post,

Hallo everyone,
As this is this GB proposal seems to be going to the vote, I just thought I'd pull together the scope of the build for reference...
1) time frame - Jan1st 1980 to December 31st 1989
2) geographical scope - anything based in or whose theatre of operation was Europe west of the Urals. I would include continental US units deployed to Europe on exercise ( e.g. ReForGer deployments) or ANG units on deployments such as the F-4Ds which covered the Ramstein QRA during the transition to the F-16C. The only proviso here is that it would need to be a specific airframe/unit tied to specific date and location.
3) Aeroplanes, tanks, ships all welcome under the above scope
4) No WHIFs, tempting tho' it would be to have a lightning F6 with Backfire kill marks!
5) NATO (and yes, France would be included even if they weren't in the military structure at the time) or Warsaw Pact- both good!
Would welcome any comments or thoughts on the above, esp. by Mish Enzo to make sure all is workable.
Cheers Paul

While you're reading that I'm away to set up another post that will hopefully give final clarification based on the mod team's discussions over the last few days and nights...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This country list is now pinned in the Rules but I'll repeat them here with some additional notes;

So, to this end and based on the map linked below, a list;

https://en.wikipedia...tes_in_1973.svg

Warsaw Pact Forces:-

Soviet Union (West of The Ural Range)

Poland

East Germany

Czechsolvakia

Bulgaria

Hungary

Romania

(The various shades of red)

NATO Forces:-

Norway

Great Britain

Belgium

Denmark

Luxembourg

Netherlands

Italy

Greece

Turkey

Portugal

West Germany

Spain (after 1982)

Iceland ("Iceland!?!" I hear you cry. Yes, we've included Iceland. More of that shortly)

(The blue bits on that map)

Forces from Canada and USA based in the aforementioned countries.

France

So, Iceland, as Enzo said the Keflavik-based F-15s did make visits to the bigger UK air-shows that Paul used for part of the influence to his initial proposal and I recall seeing a flight of them transiting over Aberdeen in formation with a KC-10 during the mid-90s as well as being busy with shepherding the Soviet bombers and reconnaissance aircraft heading out west or down south. The North Sea between Norway, Iceland, and Great Britain also seen a lot of stuff going on under, on, and above its surface so that allows the machines used to partake - specifically thinking of the various submarines and surface ships with that which we feel would make the GB all the more interesting as well as the air assets from both sides.

Greece and Turkey; no further south than Italy or east than a good chunk of the red countries. there were discussions that centred on the likelihood of those two nations being deliberately destabilised and set at each others throats to ensure they were kept busy during any initial attack by Soviet forces and their allies. Regardless of whether or not that would have come to pass or we were just talking man-vegetables they would have rapidly got involved.

Same with Spain, Portugal, Norway, France, Italy. Indeed the same argument could be used for all the neutral countries but there's no need to pull Sweden, Finland, Albania and the such like into this. NATO Vs Warsaw Pact :)

Now, I hope this gives a final and definitive list that we can all work from, let's build models.

Edited by Col.
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...