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    • Mike

      PhotoBucket are no longer permitting 3rd party hosting   01/07/17

      As most of you are now painfully aware, Photobucket (PB) are stopping/have stopped allowing their members to link their accumulated years of photos into forums and the like, which they call 3rd party linking.  You can give them a non-refundable $399 a year to allow links, but I doubt that many will be rushing to take them up on that offer.  If you've previously paid them for the Pro account, it looks like you've got until your renewal to find another place to host your files, but you too will be subject to this ban unless you fork over a lot of cash.   PB seem to be making a concerted move to another type of customer, having been the butt of much displeasure over the years of a constantly worsening user interface, sloth and advertising pop-ups, with the result that they clearly don't give a hoot about the free members anymore.  If you don't have web space included in your internet package, you need to start looking for another photo host, but choose carefully, as some may follow suit and ditch their "free" members at some point.  The lesson there is keep local backups on your hard drive of everything you upload, so you can walk away if the same thing happens.   There's a thread on the subject here, so please use that to curse them, look for solutions or generall grouse about their mental capacity.   Not a nice situation for the forum users that hosted all their photos there, and there will now be a host of useless threads that relied heavily on photos from PB, but as there's not much we can do other than petition for a more equitable solution, I suggest we make the best of what we have and move on.  One thing is for certain.  It won't win them any friends, but they may not care at this point.    Mike.
exdraken

Hunter Mk.59 Mk.59A Iraqi Airforce questions for the Hunter Specialists!

32 posts in this topic

Hello,

I am searchng for external apperance of the Hawker Hunter Mk.59 and Mk.59A as sold to Iraq in the 1960ies.

AS far as iI know, they they were converted from Hunter F.6s form the Belgium and Dutch to FGA.9 airforces by Hawker.

so my questions in respect to the Academy Hunter in 1/48:

what are the (external) differences between the Mk.59 and Mk.59A?

which tail cone would be appropriate?

which gun nozzles (with deflector?)

any other things to consider?

I am thinking of at least a replacement ejection seat... any detail to qatch out for?

thanks a lot, Hunter specialists!

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Hello,

I am searchng for external apperance of the Hawker Hunter Mk.59 and Mk.59A as sold to Iraq in the 1960ies.

AS far as iI know, they they were converted from Hunter F.6s form the Belgium and Dutch to FGA.9 airforces by Hawker.

so my questions in respect to the Academy Hunter in 1/48:

what are the (external) differences between the Mk.59 and Mk.59A?

which tail cone would be appropriate?

which gun nozzles (with deflector?)

any other things to consider?

I am thinking of at least a replacement ejection seat... any detail to qatch out for?

thanks a lot, Hunter specialists!

Essentially the FGA59 was identical to the RAF's FGA9. The FGA59a and FGA59B were just subsequent batches.

All amendments relevant to the Academy kit would be required, these are numerous unfortunately, and are well documented on here and on any other modelling website worth its salt! A lot will depend on your own modelling skills and ambition..briefly the nose is a bit too bulbous, the cockpit awful with the seat being closer to 1/72nd scale. The canopy is too short the windscreen too wide. There are no canopy rails for an open canopy. The intakes are incorrectly shaped, the splitter plates too thick and are just wrong. The tailpipe cones on both the F6 and the FGA9 are truly woeful! The tailplanes fairing us too long and the tailplanes too far back.

The wings: the dog tooth leading edge is too far inboard, and the slight under camber is missing. The wing tips are too rounded. The wheel bays are in the wrong place and the doors too small. The undercarriage is reasonable but the wheels are too small.

The airbrake fairing is the wrong shape. The ERU 'bulges' above the outer pylons are in the wrong place.

Stores: the 190 gallon tanks have insifficient detail on them as do he pylons. The bombs and rocket pods are awful! There may be some other faults that I've missed!!

Most of these faults can be remedied...and it's the only 1/48th scale Hunter out there, unless you can get a hold of the Aeroclub multimedia kit. So until Airfix or a Revell do the decent thing, it's your only choice.

No gun muzzle deflectors

Edited by Bill Clark
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This is the Academy FGA9 I built ten or so years ago, I've made most of the amendments listed above.

fga93.jpg

Edited by Bill Clark
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...and it's the only 1/48th scale Hunter out there, unless you can get a hold of the Aeroclub multimedia kit.

While you probably have left it out for good reason (and it'2 a 6 anyway), as it is reputed to have its good share of problems itself, there's also the fairly fossilic Lindberg/Marusan/UPC/Nichimo/you name it kit. As Academy's tailcone is fairly useless anyway, one may just as well redo the tail of the Lindberg kit. If one is after real good accuracy, most plus points of the Aca kit (especially the surface detail, which OTOH may not necessarily be accurate) will be annihilated by the rework. It needs a complete cockpit as does the Lindberg (unless one wants a working F-100-style seat), and so on. The Lindberg kit or one of its incarnations/clones will probably be available rather cheaply. The Aca kit scores when a SFTB build is wanted, of course.

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thanks a lot!

so to sum it up:

I just build a FGA.9 and am fine for a Mk.59(A,B)...

the necessary updates are another (pleasant or unpleasant story!)

  • Aires pit and wheel well or SBS models cockpit and wheel(bays)?
  • Quickboost seat?
  • Flightpath update set (the hard way, no?)
  • squadron or Rebell Hobby canopy? is there anymore?

what about the rockets? can they be used reasonably well? alternatives?

thanks again for your input!

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thanks a lot!

so to sum it up:

I just build a FGA.9 and am fine for a Mk.59(A,B)...

the necessary updates are another (pleasant or unpleasant story!)

  • Aires pit and wheel well or SBS models cockpit and wheel(bays)?
  • Quickboost seat?
  • Flightpath update set (the hard way, no?)
  • squadron or Rebell Hobby canopy? is there anymore?

what about the rockets? can they be used reasonably well? alternatives?

thanks again for your input!

I've used various resin tubs in my Hunters. If you can get a hold of it try Aeroclub's update set. It has injection moulded tail units, for the small bore Hunters, the F6 & FGA9 it also has a vac-formed canopy and white metal undercarriage parts. It's long out of production, but well worth it if you can find it. I'm actually building another Academy Hunter at the moment as an F6. I'll post some pics to show some of the updates.

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While you probably have left it out for good reason (and it'2 a 6 anyway), as it is reputed to have its good share of problems itself, there's also the fairly fossilic Lindberg/Marusan/UPC/Nichimo/you name it kit. As Academy's tailcone is fairly useless anyway, one may just as well redo the tail of the Lindberg kit. If one is after real good accuracy, most plus points of the Aca kit (especially the surface detail, which OTOH may not necessarily be accurate) will be annihilated by the rework. It needs a complete cockpit as does the Lindberg (unless one wants a working F-100-style seat), and so on. The Lindberg kit or one of its incarnations/clones will probably be available rather cheaply. The Aca kit scores when a SFTB build is wanted, of course.

I had the Lindbergh kit, or one of its spawns years ago. It truly was awful. The fuselage was too short, it had rear fuselage clam airbrakes(!), solid wheel wells (I think?), and an appalling undercarriage. It did though have a representation of the engine, though I can't say now if it was in anyway accurate. I also seem to recall an ejection seat that ejected, or maybe I'm confusing that with something else! I've built two Aeroclub Hunters an FGA9 and a T8, and weren't too bad, given their limited run/multi-media nature.

I've actually lost count of the Academy kits I've butchered into some sort of reasonable shape over the last 15 years or so..

And, for my sins I'm hacking away at another at the moment. I hope that it's the last, and that Airfix or Revell do the decent thing in 2016...I can wish can't I?

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  • [*]Quickboost seat?

thanks again for your input!

Personally I'd go with the Neomega seat (http://www.neomega-resin.com/mkii-242-p.asp) , it looks to be a better shape than the Quickboost one (although I'm no expert).

Sean

I posted some seat comparison photos in my build thread last year: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234957569-academy-148-hawker-hunter-f6-black-arrows/

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Airfix small bores & Revell big bores or any combo of would be nice, released at more or less the same time in a Shackleton kind of way, followed by trainers later in the year, sorted.

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Airfix small bores & Revell big bores or any combo of would be nice, released at more or less the same time in a Shackleton kind of way, followed by trainers later in the year, sorted.

Yep! That'd do it for me!

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I had the Lindbergh kit, or one of its spawns years ago. It truly was awful. The fuselage was too short, it had rear fuselage clam airbrakes(!), solid wheel wells (I think?), and an appalling undercarriage. It did though have a representation of the engine, though I can't say now if it was in anyway accurate. I also seem to recall an ejection seat that ejected, or maybe I'm confusing that with something else! I've built two Aeroclub Hunters an FGA9 and a T8, and weren't too bad, given their limited run/multi-media nature.

I've actually lost count of the Academy kits I've butchered into some sort of reasonable shape over the last 15 years or so..

And, for my sins I'm hacking away at another at the moment. I hope that it's the last, and that Airfix or Revell do the decent thing in 2016...I can wish can't I?

I thought it had a retractable undercarriage?

I think it did have an ejecting seat, powered by a rubber band IIRC.

John

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Bear in mind also that all the Iraqi AF single seat Hunters did not have provision for the outboard pylon having, instead. fitments for four rocket rails on each outer mainplane, each carrying up to three rockets in each tier. This was first tested on Hunter F.Mk.6 XF389 in September 1958. The inboard pylon carried a normal 230 gallon, braced, fuel tank as standard, the Mk.6's having been fitted with a "hardened" wing.

The difference between the Mk.59 and M.59A was purely internal and concerned radio aids. The Mk.59B was a variant of the RAF's FR.Mk.10 and carried a full suit of cameras in the nose.

The Iraqi's also had four or five Hunter T.Mk.69's, the first of which was the HS demonstrator T.66 G-APUX. Upgraded, this aircraft was put into IrAF markings with a very large serial presentation, "567" in Arabic, on the rear fuselage in white. It was, as far as I know, unique in that it had nose wheel braking. After being wet leased to Iraq, it was transferred to Lebanon and finally back to the UK where it was refurbished as a T.72 and delivered to Chile where it is now preserved.

HTH

Dennis

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ok., thanks again!

@sloegin57

interesting info!

would the Acadeny rails be more or less correct? no rocket pods then ...

aeroclub update set seems to be nowhere available anylonger...

what about PJ productions FR.10 set? apart from the nozzle fairings it should be useable for a Mk.59, no?

the Mk58 consversion seem to be nowher availbale...

Edited by exdraken

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ok., thanks again!

@sloegin57

interesting info!

would the Acadeny rails be more or less correct? no rocket pods then ...

aeroclub update set seems to be nowhere available anylonger...

what about PJ productions FR.10 set? apart from the nozzle fairings it should be useable for a Mk.59, no?

the Mk58 consversion seem to be nowher availbale...

It's a long time since I had the PJ set, but from memory I think the tail pipe with para. fairing wasn't that accurate. The FR nose wouldn't be needed of course.

The 3-tier rockets in the kit may be useable........

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I thought it had a retractable undercarriage?

I think it did have an ejecting seat, powered by a rubber band IIRC.

John

The one I recall had indeed retractable undercarriage, with mainwheels which were rather too thin. It also had the thrust reverser trial installation, with cascades either side of the rear fuselage. Don't reacll whether it ahd any airbrake fitting.

John B

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Heritage has some conversion sets for the Hunter: http://www.kitsforcash.com/148-conversions-12-c.asp

I cannot comment on how they are though...

And Aeroclub did a canopy too - but they are quite rare by now.

SAC does a U7C set - but I am not sure if it is just a copy of the Academy parts in wm.

And IIRC Maestro does wheels (not sure if these are correct for Iraqi versions).

Rene

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Heritage has some conversion sets for the Hunter: http://www.kitsforcash.com/148-conversions-12-c.asp

And Aeroclub did a canopy too - but they are quite rare by now.

SAC does a U7C set - but I am not sure if it is just a copy of the Academy parts in wm.

And IIRC Maestro does wheels (not sure if these are correct for Iraqi versions).

Rene

thanks,

the Heritage looks interesting!, but it seems it only has the Mk.6 tail cone.

the gun fairings look to be for FGA.9 maschines though...

the wheels look nice!

The Maestro models stuff is normaly quite accurate and available, thanks! wheels and canopy. $$ though!

best regards

Edited by exdraken

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It's a long time since I had the PJ set, but from memory I think the tail pipe with para. fairing wasn't that accurate. .

what is wrong with the PJ set's exhaust??

thanks!

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what is wrong with the PJ set's exhaust??

thanks!

Well, it's been a long time since I had one but I think the para fairing is too pointy, and incorrectly shaped. On my IV(AC) Sqn FR10, built some 10 years ago, I know I reprofiled this area.....

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Oh dear, I thought the Academy Hunter might be an easy foray into 1/48 for me. I was aware of the canopy, tail plane/cone and seat issues so have a replacement seat and vac form canopy but wasn't aware of the rest of the issues.

Bill, another photo "how to" from you would be appreciated by all.

Duncan B

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Oh dear, I thought the Academy Hunter might be an easy foray into 1/48 for me. I was aware of the canopy, tail plane/cone and seat issues so have a replacement seat and vac form canopy but wasn't aware of the rest of the issues.

Bill, another photo "how to" from you would be appreciated by all.

Duncan B

Hi Duncan, I'm not sure that I have any pic's to demonstrate where the problems are, but here's a photo from Echelon's 1/32nd scale rear end, for the single Hunter T12 - basically a T7 but with the larger 200 series Avon, so essentially identical to the FGA9/F6A/FR10 etc., This kit is widely described as the most accurate of all Hunter kits- though I suspect Revell's kit is broadly the same (!). This is the general shape it should be.....

100_5396.jpg

Edited by Bill Clark
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It's a long time since I had the PJ set, but from memory I think the tail pipe with para. fairing wasn't that accurate. The FR nose wouldn't be needed of course.

The 3-tier rockets in the kit may be useable........

I think I've been a bit unfair on the PJ resin tailpipe. I!ve just seen a pic of the resin parts on the web, and they look quite good! So apologies for misleading you here's, in my defence I did build it a good few years ago!
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I think I've been a bit unfair on the PJ resin tailpipe. I!ve just seen a pic of the resin parts on the web, and they look quite good! So apologies for misleading you here's, in my defence I did build it a good few years ago!

I ordered a bunch of stuff from hannants..

lets see and compare directly then :)

this will definitely be more work than I previously thought! (more or less OOB with a new canopy maybe, or just closing it!)

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I ordered a bunch of stuff from hannants..

lets see and compare directly then :)

this will definitely be more work than I previously thought! (more or less OOB with a new canopy maybe, or just closing it!)

this build did a lot of improvements 'with some modelling skill'

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/70313-148-academy-hunter-f6/

Some pics seem to have gone, but it has fixes for the cockpit, which with a new seat would suffice.

Bill's list of errors is longer than I have seen for the Academy Hunter, I don't recall John Adams making a similar list.

Have to compare my Aeroclub Hunter with the Academy kit.

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