paints on a budget

[mtchllro]

I am on a very tight budget but still want to get the best finish I can ,I can't afford to go and get every paint needed for each model and so far have been surviving on the paints from starter kits .

My main question is can any paint be used as in artist acrylics etc ?

Also as a complete newbie (part from desecrating models when I was a kid ) I have been getting confused about "klear" is that just the household polish ? If so how is it used (just as a polish) ?

Sorry for these newbish question's just one more will any primer work I have rattle cans of white and grey primer left over from car repairs would they be OK.

Enough from me for now but there are lots of questions like these I am looking through the forums hopefully I can find answers already out there .

Thanks.

[old thumper]

Klear is sold as floor polish but people use it to coat transparencies to make them more clear and also as a sort of varnish. When used as a varnish the idea is that it helps transfers go on better, if you put transfers straight on matt paint you can often see the clear background the markings are printed on, this is what people call silvering.

There is a lot of disagreement over paint. Some people reckon that rattle cans are perfect to use on models while others don't.

I am an enamel man myself so won't comment on how to use acrylic paints. What I used to do when I was a kid and never had much money was try and buy colours that could be mixed to make other colours, if you are not fussy about getting exact shades it is ok to do this.

To be honest I don't think that there such things as exact shades anyway.

[Beardie]

Artists acrylic could be used in theory but you would need to get acrylic thinners and flow improver and the costs go up very quickly.

I am an enamel man also and I never use primer. Enamels go a long way (I have tins that I put in storage when I stopped modelling around 2000 that still have plenty left in them) All you need is a bottle of white spirit and off you go. As time goes by and you pick up a tin here and there pretty soon you have a wide range.

I have never used Klear myself. I use Humbrol decalfix and put my decals straight down on the matt finish and have never suffered any problems. I tend to lacquer my models when they are finished using either thinned Humbrol enamel clear varnish or Humbrol Clear airbrush lacquer.

[iainpeden]

As long as you look after your paints you will soon build up a useful stock, especially if you stick to a particular modeling area - eg Vietnam er a/c.

Always stir thoroughly and make sure all the sediment has been dissolved onto the liquid.

With enamels I add a drop of thinners once I have finished using the paint and then make sure the lid is very secure; you may want to wipe paint residue away from the opening as a build up means that air can get into the tin.

[Richard B.]

I swear by Games Workshop acrylic paints. They come in little plastic bottles that seal very well again once opened. They sell empty bottles so you can make custom mixes. They brush very well, and can be thinned with waterif necessary, they dry with a very good shiny finish. I find they last a long time because the seals on the bottles are so good.

The paints are for Warhammer figures and so the names of the colours are, uh, interesting, such as Snot Green and so on, so you won't find Nato Green, or Dark Earth for example.

I have used them in a air brush.

Check reviews on line about them.

[Giorgio N]

I've used artist acrylics before and still use them. Some are better than others but the ones I use now work exactly as every other acrylic I've used.

The problem is that good quality artist acrylics are not really much cheaper than specific model paints !

In any case, if you can't afford to buy all paints, you can select a small number of colours that will always be useful and try to mix the other colours. A lot also depends on how focused you are on the accuracy of your finished model. A number of paints used in camouflage schemes are not too different from each other and for example a USAF vietnam era dark green can be used on a WW2 RAF aircraft and will still look good.

As rattle cans have been mentioned, personally I find them quite expensive in the end. They may save the money needed for an airbrush, but at that point I'd rather use a brush than a spray can, apart from things like a primer coat and silver

Edited January 25, 2015 by Giorgio N

[mtchllro]

Thank you all for your replies.

I mentioned artist acrylics as my daughter has a mostly untouched set I will play around and see how they spread/fill/cover etc.

[Beardie]

If you are going to try using artists acrylic you will need a flow improver. You can buy this as a specific product (at a price) but it is actually a detergent like is used in washing up liquid. Buy some childrens bubble blowing liquid and add a few drops to your watered down acrylic and this will make all the difference. Basically the detergent breaks the surface tension that is inherent in the water which causes it to bead on the surface. Unfortunately modern washing up liquid can't be used because it is full of anti-baterial agents thickeners and smellies rather than pure detergent. Childs bubble blowing liquid is the pure detergent mixed with water so basically you get flow improver for a fraction of the price of the artists version.

[mtchllro]

If you are going to try using artists acrylic you will need a flow improver. You can buy this as a specific product (at a price) but it is actually a detergent like is used in washing up liquid. Buy some childrens bubble blowing liquid and add a few drops to your watered down acrylic and this will make all the difference. Basically the detergent breaks the surface tension that is inherent in the water which causes it to bead on the surface. Unfortunately modern washing up liquid can't be used because it is full of anti-baterial agents thickeners and smellies rather than pure detergent. Childs bubble blowing liquid is the pure detergent mixed with water so basically you get flow improver for a fraction of the price of the artists version.

I have just raided my youngest bedroom and have a bottle of bubbles to hand now I just need to get my kids to bed and I can start experimenting.

Thanks again for your help.

Edited January 25, 2015 by mtchllro

[Beardie]

Best price you can get .....free!

Shouldn't have a problem just mix the paint up to a reasonably liquid form (similar consistency to the paint pots) remember to add a drop or two of the flow improver (bubbles). It is also worthwhile to add a few drops to the water you wash your brush in.

[old thumper]

I have just raided my youngest bedroom and have a bottle of bubbles to hand now I just need to get my kids to bed and I can start experimenting.

Thanks again for your help.

Make sure you don't finish up in the doghouse.

[mtchllro]

I'm good on that point he has about 8 bottles I did ask ask him first I'm not. that bad (yet).

I will have to wait until tomorrow the light bulb went in our bedroom and the only spare one until tomorrow is in the dining(my modeling space) room :-(

[Beardie]

Wait till the wife is asleep then sneak in and "borrow" it back or give the missus a torch.

[Duncan B]

There was a similar question asked on here a while ago about Artist's acrylics and someone in the manufacturing trade for these paints answered stating that the pigments were not as finely ground in artist's acrylics as they are for modelling acrylics so he felt that, on the whole, they weren't the best for our needs.

I have a large stock of paints now which has been built up over a period of years, I started off with just the basic colours (as suggested above) then gradually bought as I could afford them and as I needed new colours.

Duncan B

[Beardie]

The person may be right but i'm not so sure that artist's acrylics are less finely ground. This may have been a straight attempt to keep people away from them as an option. But they have characteristics which may well be more problematic than how finely ground they are.

You have to be careful what you mean by artists acrylics though as there is a huge difference between those for professional artists which are pretty expensive finely ground and quite thick and those for the amateur or sold in basic sets in stationers etc. The main difference between artist's acrylics and the acrylics you will buy for modelling is their opacity. In art it is a valued characteristic that certain colours or shades be opaque and others be transparent or varying degrees in between which are determined by the chemicals used in their manufacture and which allow different transparent layers to be built up whereas the tubs of acrylic used in modelling are made from as opaque a compound as possible as we don't want the colour below showing through (Unless you are doing some pre-shading).

The only way to really find out if they will work is to try whatever ones you have to hand and see how they perform. Be aware that you will need to use a light primer or chances are a dark primer would show through.

But ultimately the reality is that you do want to build up a stock of the right stuff be it enamel or acrylic.

Might be worth asking if anyone on here has little gift pack pots that they don't want hanging around that they would part with for postage and maybe a little on top. and this would keep you going while you build up you paint stock. Unfortunately I just disposed of 60 pots I had from starter sets or I would have been happy to pass them on to you.

[mtchllro]

I will have a try tomorrow and see how they behave they will either cover or not its worth trying them out ,

I'm just eager to do a good job.

[markg]

I can't comment about artists' acrylics because I have no experience of them, but regarding sticking to one paint manufacturer say, I would think most modellers with a bit of experience could use just one manufacturer's paints that suits them and their style etc., and create all the shades necessary by mixing colours. For example, I really like Revell Aqua Color, and I think that I could probably do ALL my models using these paints, whether hand-painting or airbrushing. Thing is though, once one really gets into model making, one wants to try different products, it's just a fact of (modelling)life really. I understand about budget, of course, but I doubt any model maker *just* sticks to their favoured brand, they just can't help themselves trying different stuff, and in fact, that's all part of the magic of this hobby :-)

Not sure if I've helped or not, I doubt it, but there you go.

cheers

Mark

[Steve Noble]

I think it depends what you are painting..? What model types do you intend to build, military, aircraft or cars etc..?? Some types of paint are more suited to certain subjects. Are you brushing or spraying..?? Personally I don't think artists acrylics will be anywhere near as good as proper model paints, no matter how you use them..

[mtchllro]

I'm going to experiment with what I can find I mainly like aircraft with the odd vehicle (military).

I have lurking somewhere a humbrol starter airbrush I never throw anything away my kids have had all my old toys apart from some die cast which I sold.

I have fallen foul of the nodding head answer to my better half apparently I agreed to take her into town but will keep you up to date with how my experiments go.

Thank you all again for you very helpful answer's and views.

[Greenshirt]

A friend in my local club uses cheap artist's acrylics in the tube. He picks them up at yard sales (er, boot sales) for pennies. He mixes every color he needs from the basic set and only uses a hairy stick. He models figures, aircraft, ships, cars, armor, and always in a diorama. He regularly wins at IPMS USA shows. His work is rather stunning.

He's not keen on "it must be FS 3981235" but he matches to the color he sees. He even did a diorama in grayscale because the only photo was b&w.

Some day I hope to match his skill at mixing color.

Tim

[cruiserguy]

Hi Everyone,

I might have posted something like this before, but if you can find it, there is a great article by a guy called Christ Flodberg on Modelwarships.com. He is an artist and uses a small number of basic colours in artist's acrylics to mix all the colours he needs. He is a good model builder too, and you'll see some of his work on the site I have mentioned.

Best Wishes,

Will.

[mtchllro]

Sorry for delay in getting back it's amazing what chores can be found when you want to do something for yourself lol.

I have found my old humbrol airbrush if all goes well I can get to testing this evening.

Again thanks for your views and responded .

[old thumper]

The trouble with those airbrushes is the cost of propellant. If you like you can buy adaptors that fit on tyres etc to get around the cost of propellant.

[bhouse]

Every time I see this thread i read the title as "pants on a budget" which calls up all manner of odd ideas

[DaveO]

If you have a crafts shop, 'The Range' outlet or use Amazon, look out for bottles of acrylic branded as 'Artiste' they are 2oz (59ml) squeezy bottles. The colours have odd names but take a humbrol colour chart with you and you will find that 'Forest Green' for example is a close match to Nato Green. The Yellow, White, Black, Sand and different shades of grey are all worth grabbing - the usual price is £1.20 per bottle. They brush well straight from the bottle and if you use an airbrush mixing with Klear gives a very tough smooth coat.

Klear (Pledge Floor Wax) is really cheap from Asda and is very handy to have, it's nature means it gives a very thin but strong varnish, it needs to be applied in a couple of layers but unlike most modelling varnishes is self levelling and easy to get a very good finish. It also dries very fast. The main use is to build a high gloss finish on top of your paintwork, the gloss finish ensures decals adhere without silvering (caused by microscopic air bubbles trapped between the decal and the coarse surface of matt paint). A final coat of klear and then a matt varnish makes your decals look as though they are painted on.

It sounds like lots of layers but it soon becomes routine!

Edited January 30, 2015 by DaveO