1/48 - Dassault/IAI Nesher/Dagger & Finger by Wingman Models (Kinetic variant) - released

[Homebee]

As usual, do I've to say, the Kinetic's German partner, Wingman Models (http://wingmanmodels.com/wm/Pulsar/en_US.CMS.display.65./superior-military-aviation-model-kits-accessories), is to rework the chinese new 1/48th Dassault Mirage IIIE/O/R kit (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234959104-148-kinetic-mirage-iii5/) to propose a family of IAI Nesher/Dagger & Finger in its Superkits range (http://wingmanmodels.com/wm/Pulsar/en_US.Store.display.80./superkits) - ref.WK48013.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/wingmanmodels

And what about the two-seats versions from these fighters? Considering Wingman Models has already released the two-seat variant from the Kfir, the TC.2 (http://wingmanmodels.com/wm/Pulsar/en_US.Store.display.151./wmk48011-israeli-air-force-kfir-tc2-superkit)...

Wait and see.

V.P.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Homebee

[Homebee]

Thanks Luis!

Source: https://www.facebook.com/wingmanmodels/photos/pcb.344497345736996/344440812409316/?type=1&theater

WMK48013: IAI Nesher/ Dagger/ Finger in 1/48 scale.

The plastic sprues are based on the Mirage IIIE from Kinetic. The kit will include a new and highly detailed cockpit, two ejection seats (Mk.4 and Mk.6), revised instrument panel, Nesher/Dagger nose with aerials, highly detailed ATAR 9 exhaust and engine pipe, one-piece wheels, the IAI Finger nose, two Shafrir 2 missiles, two 1,300 liter wing fuel tanks – all in high quality resin. Turned brass pitot tube and AOA probe as well as photo etch parts will be provided. Pre-cut masking paper and a very comprehensive decal sheet will round-up our model.

V.P.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Homebee

[Homebee]

Decals

Sources:

https://www.facebook.com/wingmanmodels/photos/pcb.344584175728313/344583099061754/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/wingmanmodels/photos/pcb.344584175728313/344583095728421/?type=1&theater

]

V.P.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Homebee

[Wez]

OK, could somebody tell me just how a Nesher/Dagger/Finger are related to a Mirage III?

I know they are based upon a Mirage III but don't understand just how much of the original Mirage is there and where the parts come from.

Wez

[Homebee]

I know they are based upon a Mirage III but don't understand just how much of the original Mirage is there and where the parts come from.

It's now well known that Dassault brought a discrete as effective technical and industrial support (even providing parts and complete sub-elements) to IAI for the design as well as the production of the first Israelian Mirage III/5 variants.

V.P.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Homebee

[exdraken]

nice news! any idea if the rear fuselage pylons will be included? they were used, no?

more questions: what was the typical armament for a Nesher?

French Mirage 5F were basically pure bomb trucks, with a heavy bomb load on the RPK fuel tank-bomb carrier combination!

@ WEZ:

As far as is known now, they were deliverd by France as replacement part and just assembled in Israel. The same goes for the engine.

See (newer) several publications.

So the Mirage M5J is the same as the Nesher. Later they received some upgrades though.

[luis pacheco]

WMK48013: IAI Nesher/ Dagger/ Finger in 1/48 scale.
The plastic sprues are based on the Mirage IIIE from Kinetic. The kit will include a new and highly detailed cockpit, two ejection seats (Mk.4 and Mk.6), revised instrument panel, Nesher/Dagger nose with aerials, highly detailed ATAR 9 exhaust and engine pipe, one-piece wheels, the IAI Finger nose, two Shafrir 2 missiles, two 1,300 liter wing fuel tanks – all inhigh quality resin. Turned brass pitot tube and AOA probe as well as photo etch parts will be provided. Pre-cut masking paper and a very comprehensive decal sheet will round-up our model.

WMK48014: Belgian AF Mirage VBA/VBR 1/48 scale.
The plastic sprues are based on the Mirage IIIE from Kinetic. The kit will include new and highly accurate cockpit, Mk.4 and Mk.10 ejection seats, revised instrument panel, new Mirage VBA nose, highly detailed ATAR 9 exhaust and engine pipe, one-piece wheels, a new vertical fin, which represents the final stage of the Mirage VBA/VBR, arresting hook assembly, two highly accurate 1,700 liter wing fuel tanks – all provided in high quality resin. Turned brass pitot tube and AOA probe as well as photo etch parts will be provided. Pre-cut masking paper and a very comprehensive decal sheet will round-up our model.

Edited February 6, 2015 by luis pacheco

[Homebee]

Mirage 5BA and 5BR...

V.P.

[luis pacheco]

Seeing the decal sheet I believe they inverted the speed brakes colors for the Dagger.

[Bo hermansen]

The Nesher and Dagger are the same airplane.

The Nesher is a Mirage 5J, Israel ordered 61 aircraft from France.

After an Israeli raid in Lebanon, France embargoed them all, but Dassult would not let a simple embargo, get in the way of a good sale, the aircraft where crated up, shipped from

France to Israel with USAF aircraft, and the put together in a IAI Facility.

The story about Mossad stealing the "plans" in Switzeland and IAI making their own "copy" of the Mirage V, is a hoaxe, to explain to the Israels enemies, how Israel suddenly had en extra 60 Mirages.

The Neshers' airframe was identical to the Mirage 5, but there was an extensive refitting of Israeli avionics, Martin baker seats, and improved provisions for a wider range of AAM

The Nesher had simpler avionics than the Mirage IIIC but was slightly less maneuverable. However, it had longer range and bigger payload.

During the YKW the Neshers flew mostly air to air, so the most common loadout would be 3 bags, and 2 Shafir/AIM 9B/D/E.

Even though the Nesher did its share, to bring the Mirage III Family to become the highest killer in moderne air to air warfare.

Bo

On 2/6/2015 at 8:06 PM, exdraken said:

 

nice news! any idea if the rear fuselage pylons will be included? they were used, no?

more questions: what was the typical armament for a Nesher?

French Mirage 5F were basically pure bomb trucks, with a heavy bomb load on the RPK fuel tank-bomb carrier combination!

@ WEZ:

As far as is known now, they were deliverd by France as replacement part and just assembled in Israel. The same goes for the engine.

See (newer) several publications.

So the Mirage M5J is the same as the Nesher. Later they received some upgrades though.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Bo hermansen

[Wez]

The Nesher and Dagger are the same airplane.

The Nesher is a Mirage 5J, Israel ordered 61 aircraft from France.

After an Israeli raid in Lebanon, France embargoed them all, but Dassult would not let a simple embargo, get in the way of a good sale, the aircraft where crated up, shipped from

France to Israel with USAF aircraft, and the put together in a IAI Facility.

The story about Mossad stealing the "plans" in Switzeland and IAI making their own "copy" of the Mirage V, is a hoaxe, to explain to the Israels enemies, how Israel suddenly had en extra 60 Mirages.

The Neshers' airframe was identical to the Mirage 5, but there was an extensive refitting of Israeli avionics, Martin baker seats, and improved provisions for a wider range of AAM

The Nesher had simpler avionics than the Mirage IIIC but was slightly less maneuverable. However, it had longer range and bigger payload.

During the YKW the Neshers flew mostly air to air, so the most common loadout would be 3 bags, and 2 Shafir/AIM 9B/D/E.

Even though the Nesher did its share, to bring the Mirage III Family to become the highest killer in moderne air to air warfare.

Bo

Thanks Bo,

This is just the sort of thing I was trying to establish.

I was trying to assess the eligibility of a Nesher/Dagger/Finger for both the French Fancy and proposed Mirage GB, it would appear that as the Nesher was a Mirage 5J, the Dagger is an upgrade of the Nesher and the Finger is an upgrade of that, they still essentially lead back to the original M5J airframes. On that basis, they too are eligible for either GB.

Wez

[Bo hermansen]

A minor corretion: a Dagger is not an upgrade of the Nesher, they are the very same, in 1978 Israel started to sell their Neshers to Argentine, they where al refurbished and given a

new paint job in RAL colours (Ral 1019, Ral 6003 Olivgrün, Ral 6015 Schwartzoliv and Ral 7047 Telegrau ), and shipped to Argentina, I have seen a very nice picture of them, standing

newly painted in a colour scheme looking close to USAF SEA camo, waiting to be shipped.

The contract had a sub contract, stating that all Daggers where to upgraded to Kfir C2 standart, and be named "Finger", that upgrade started after the Falklands war broke out, and where completed some time after.

Bo

, the Dagger is an upgrade of the Nesher and the Finger is an upgrade of that, they still essentially lead back to the original M5J airframes. On that basis, they too are eligible for either GB.

Wez

Edited February 7, 2015 by Bo hermansen

[Wez]

A minor corretion: a Dagger is not an upgrade of the Nesher, they are the very same, in 1978 Israel started to sell their Neshers to Argentine, they where al refurbished and given a

new paint job in RAL colours, and shipped to Argentina, I have seen a very nice picture of them, standing newly painted in a colour scheme looking close to USAF SEA camo,, waiting to be shipped.

The contract had a sub contract, stating that all Daggers where to updraded ti Kfir C2 standart, and be named "Finger", that upgrade started after the Falklands war broke out, and where completed some time after.

Bo

Bo,

Thanks for the correction.

Wez

[Bo hermansen]

Hope this is not OT

Here are the remains of an Argentine Dagger C-404, shot down near Port Howard, the Falkland islands, you can se the old Israeli

Magen david through the burned and faded paint

A few part are preserved today:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29126266@N00/5501884375/in/set-72157626081497811

Bo

Edited February 7, 2015 by Bo hermansen

[Antoine]

France embargoed them all, but Dassult would not let a simple embargo, get in the way of a good sale

Everything was done with approval/support of the French government, Dassault had (has) is access there.

You don't sell 60 Mirage like a crate of kalashnikov.

[f4h1phantom]

in 1978 Israel started to sell their Neshers to Argentine, they where al refurbished and given a

new paint job in RAL colours (Ral 1019, Ral 6003 Olivgrün, Ral 6015 Schwartzoliv and Ral 7047 Telegrau ), and shipped to Argentina, I have seen a very nice picture of them, standing

newly painted in a colour scheme looking close to USAF SEA camo, waiting to be shipped.

Bo

Hi Bo,

would you mind telling where you get the information that the aircraft were painted with RAL colours? Never thought RAL colours would be available in Israel. Did the israelis paint any other aircraft using them? I am quite surprised as I always thought only Federal Standard colours would be available there.

If that was indeed the case, they did a pretty good job as the colours looked almost exactly like the ones used on the Mirage IIIEAs delivered directly from France, for which FS colours were specified.

Best regards,

Jorge.

Edited February 8, 2015 by f4h1phantom

[Bo hermansen]

Sure, Scale aircraft modelling , volume 34, November 2012, Article by Yoav Efrati about the Nesher, page 31 has two pictures of the newly painted Daggers.

The Israeli has a long history of paiting with RAL colours, The early jets, Mystere, Ouraguan and Vautour where painted RAL 5008, 8008 and 7044

Bo

Hi Bo,

would you mind telling where you get the information that the aircraft were painted with RAL colours? Never thought RAL colours would be available in Israel. Did the israelis paint any other aircraft using them? I am quite surprised as I always thought only Federal Standard colours would be available there.

If that was indeed the case, they did a pretty good job as the colours looked almost exactly like the ones used on the Mirage IIIEAs delivered directly from France, for which FS colours were specified.

Best regards,

Jorge.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bo hermansen

[f4h1phantom]

Sure, Scale aircraft modelling , volume 34, November 2012, Article by Yoav Efrati about the Nesher, page 31 has two pictures of the newly painted Daggers.

The Israeli has a long history of paiting with RAL colours, The early jets, Mystere, Ouraguan and Vautour where painted RAL 5008, 8008 and 7044

Bo

Wow! That is a complete surprise to me! I would have never thought they would use RAL colours on their aircraft. What shocks me the most is that, although I have read books and articles about israeli aircraft and their colours, I never came across anybody mentioning the use of german paint on them. I am still in awe!

Many, many thanks for the reply and education. Most appreciated.

All the best,

Jorge.

Edited February 9, 2015 by f4h1phantom

[Homebee]

On pre-order at "The Little Shop of Phantoms"

http://www.shopofphantoms.com/rhino/Pulsar/en_US.Shop.displayShop.8216./wmk48013-iai-nesher-dagger-finger

V.P.

[Panoz]

Wow! That is a complete surprise to me! I would have never thought they would use RAL colours on their aircraft. What shocks me the most is that, although I have read books and articles about israeli aircraft and their colours, I never came across anybody mentioning the use of german paint on them. I am still in awe!

That's a surprise to me as well but given that the Israelis got Magisters (complete & part assemblies), Noratlasses, Dorniers, Sikorsky H-34s & even M48 tanks from Deutschland, then maybe it shouldn't be.. .

[Homebee]

Ready for release.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/wingmanmodels/photos/pcb.378330682353662/378330505687013/?type=1&theater

And on pre-order at LM: http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=WKM48013

V.P.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Homebee

[falcon04]

I never came across anybody mentioning the use of german paint on them. I am still in awe!

All the best,

Jorge.

Aren't we talking here about colors mixed to MATCH RAL or FS595 standards, not paint imported from Germany or the US ??

Israel had and has the industry and capability to produce paint to match any standard.

[goon]

Yes! I'm having at least a couple of the FAA boxings.

[exdraken]

very nice!

one question: anybody knows if this release contains the full and all Kinetic Mirage sprues?

Wingman Kfirs did not...

Peruian Mara (Mirage 5P3, 5P4 ) with AS.30 anyone? (were they called Mara in Peru before, or only after 10 were sold in haste during the Falklands/ Malvinas war?)

[Laurent]

I believe that they were called Mara after they were sold to Argentina. The Mara had a "Nesher nose" but with RWR antennas on either sides of the tip. The Mirage 5P nose looked very similar to the Mirage 5BA nose but not identical (slightly different dielectric panels) I believe.