Democracy: We Deliver (1/72 Hasegawa Liberator VI)

[Pete in Lincs]

So, Greeaat = fine?

[Ray S]

HaHa Mr P, I have actually managed to get to the (current) end of this thread. With your Lancaster build, I thought I was experiencing a serious case of Einstienian Relativistic Syndrome - to wit that every time I managed to read through the updates and gave it a rest for the night, I came back to the thread and I was further away from the end than previously.

Great work on the Lanc, and I am looking forward to any solutions to potential Hasegawa hitches (as opposed to Airfix hitches) that might be thrown up. As always, you wear your heart on your sleeve, and we live your builds.

All the best, Ray

[06/24]

Just a word of caution from modelling railways. Some metals react with PVA and expand over time. I've no idea what you've used for weights, but thought I'd mention it before you were too far along. I'll try to find out why the culprits were for wider reassurance.

This link shows an example: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23653&st=15

Apologies if this is off topic.

Edited January 25, 2015 by 06/24

[Procopius]

Just a word of caution from modelling railways. Some metals react with PVA and expand over time. I've no idea what you've used for weights, but thought I'd mention it before you were too far along. I'll try to find out why the culprits were for wider reassurance.

This link shows an example: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23653&st=15

Apologies if this is off topic.

No, not at all off topic. Dammit! I was using white glue because I'd read all the horror stories about how CA glue can sometimes cause kits to explode like that guy's head in Scanners. Well, not precisely like that, but you get the idea. However, upon reflection, I think I may be okay, as the little weights are Liquid Gravity, which are not lead, the large weight is zinc, and I believe my fishing weights are tin. So I hope I'm in the clear.

So, Greeaat = fine?

I believe it's indicative of a sort of grim acceptance. Mrs. P and I will (hopefully) be married forever, because not only is she beautiful, intelligent, hardworking, and very funny, she's also so weird and idiosyncratic that I would have no idea how to interact with an ordinary woman in the course of day-to-day life.

I always add a bit more weight - for insurance, as there is nothing more annoying than a tail sitter. ( Well, OK, maybe a plague of rats ).

I dunno, you can kill rats, but it's hard to fix a tail sitter ex post facto.

On the shaving front - do. When I went off to university I let my hair, beard, and moustache all grow. ( It was the 70s, one could get away with looking unkept ). First time I made an entrance at home, mum, without missing a beat, says "I hope you are going to shave soon, you look just like Jesus". Have never felt the same about facial hair since.

When I was very small, my father apparently had a rich red beard that would not have been out of place on, for instance, a French fur trader leading a crew of hearty voyageurs across the Great Lakes, but he shaved it off when it became clear that it was also a very serviceable climbing net for baby Procopius. When I first, belatedly and on the part of my face almost begrudgingly developed facial hair, he forced me to shave with the injunction: "son, you have to shave your face...you carry my name." Facial hair is always the wrong choice for me, it just looks like I've finally hit puberty.

You must be doing a good job Procopius....I've just snapped one of these up off of evilbay for a very reasonable price. I'll be following this closely

Oh good! Nothing makes me happier than to discover that someone's decided to try their hand at a kit after seeing my fumblings. Do you have markings picked out for her?

[jedi]You do well to consider extra weight in the nacelles young PC [/jedi]

get it in anywhere you can

Fun fact: I was known as "Yoda" during very early childhood, on account of my sadly prominent ears.

Re: the weight, I agree. The tiny stuff is a bee to use, sadly, but I persevere.

Weight times distance from the CoG is what you need to bear in mind - a given mass 2" from the CoG will have twice the 'moment' of that same mass 1" from the CoG. Weight added to the nacelles will have an effect, therefore... just not as much as if you could find a place further forward.

With regard to the decals, the Kits at War colours look best to me... the Freightdog ones look a touch too violet .

You can tell that John has a degree slightly more useful than a Bachelor's in Humanities. And curse you, John, for agreeing with me on the K-a-W decals. I don't want them to be right, but they really do look more right to me than the Freightdog ones. I'm wondering if I just got a misprinted sheet; does anyone else have one?

[MolarDoc]

Look forward to another build. Re: Weight, have you seen this:

I found this recently when facing your CoG problem - It is sold as "Tungsten Putty" in UK angling shops.

It is approx 7x denser than lead apparently and malleable - You can see the advantages here.

I have some on order (I cannot find it in Australia), so have not tried it, but cannot see why it wouldn't work?

I will probably find out why soon!

Regards MD.

[taggart]

As an angler myself i have used the tungsten putty , for what you get weight wise it's darned expensive !!!

One make is 25g for £6.99 .

Use lead sheet fixed in place with 5 minute epoxy myself .

[Admiral Puff]

I use lead flashing cut to size and glued in place with epoxy. I snared a large lump of lead flashing from a builder's skip some years ago, whilst my house was being renovated, and I've now got enough to last me forever. I can vouch for the advice to eschew CA for fixing lead - I have several completed models with noses that look like a half-peeled banana (well, almost ...) to prove it!

And, BTW, I grew a full set in 1970 to celebrate completing my Law course and my admission as a solicitor (or lawyer, as we have to call ourselves these days) - I've never shaved it off since.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Admiral Puff

[Procopius]

As an angler myself i have used the tungsten putty , for what you get weight wise it's darned expensive !!!

One make is 25g for £6.99 .

Holy crap! The Liberator needs 90 grams of weight, £6.99 x 4, carry the one...that's like five hundred dollars! Or a lot, anyway.

I will probably find out why soon!

Please let us know how it turns out.

And, BTW, I grew a full set in 1970 to celebrate completing my Law course and my admission as a solicitor (or lawyer, as we have to call ourselves these days) - I've never shaved it off since.

I'm sure, in the interest of transatlantic legal amity, you've joined the American Bar Association. Why? No reason...

[Navy Bird]

For what it's worth, my PB4Y-1 (B-24D in disguise) needed 83g of weight, plus I added some extra. I stashed it everywhere, including the nacelles. If you can suffer paging through one of my WIP threads, I believe I photographed every place that I put the weight.

Part 1: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946964-172-consolidated-pb4y-1-liberator/

Part 2: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234951732-revell-172-consolidated-pb4y-1-liberator/

The photos are in there somewhere! The model sits fine on its tricycle gear, and the plastic legs show no sign of sagging or collapsing. For now anyway!

There is another Liberator VI build thread going on now, and I think he ended up with a tail sitter in spite of all of the weight. One thing to remember, though, is the actual Liberator, when unfueled, would often tip back on its tail skid. To counter this effect, you can find many photos that show the use of an empty ammo box under the tail skid to support the plane. Another thing that you can do is simply glue the model to a base. Use epoxy, and it won't be tail-sitting.

Cheers,

Bill

PS. Nice nose art, indeed!

[Procopius]

For what it's worth, my PB4Y-1 (B-24D in disguise) needed 83g of weight, plus I added some extra. I stashed it everywhere, including the nacelles. If you can suffer paging through one of my WIP threads, I believe I photographed every place that I put the weight.

Part 1: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946964-172-consolidated-pb4y-1-liberator/

Thanks, Bill! Even better, I was able to take advantage of some of your research, even though the -J and -D had fairly different interior colouration.

Another thing that you can do is simply glue the model to a base.

NEVER! Mors aut victoria! Westminster Abbey, or victory!

Oh, right, the build.

So the B-24J apparently had Bronze Green, or US Interior Green, or whatever you care to call it forward, and bare metal abaft the cockpit. OK, can do. I used Tamiya fine surface primer from a spray can out of sheer detestable laziness, and basecoated the interior bits, then let fly with Alclad Aluminium.

Also, two of my weights did indeed contain lead, and were removed and replaced. I don't think we're even remotely close to 90 grams yet.

Then I got the green bits:

I'm always fascinated by the interior colours of WWII aircraft, they're very counterintuitive to me. You'd expect it all to be black. Speaking of, the Hase instrument panel decal is black, but of course the B-24J did not have a black IP, the internet seems to say. So don't look too closely in the cockpit!

I also painted the props, because I always hold off on that until the last second and shilly-shally and delay. Well, not this time.

Last night I gave all the clear parts a Future bath in a cereal bowl, which I promptly washed afterwards, to conceal from Mrs. P the enormity of my crime.

[Navy Bird]

Bronze Green and Interior Green are two very different colours. Do you know which colour your plane used?

Cheers,

Bill

[Procopius]

Bronze Green and Interior Green are two very different colours. Do you know which colour your plane used?

Cheers,

Bill

Uh...well...I...no. No I do not. Actually always thought/hoped they were the same.

[John Laidlaw]

You can tell that John has a degree slightly more useful than a Bachelor's in Humanities. And curse you, John, for agreeing with me on the K-a-W decals. I don't want them to be right, but they really do look more right to me than the Freightdog ones. I'm wondering if I just got a misprinted sheet; does anyone else have one?

No no no - different, yes, but not in the least bit useful. Yeah, sorry about that... Freightdog's stuff is excellent, so - not having this sheet - I can only assume this is a misprint. Sorry, young fellow .

[MolarDoc]

Quote: Holy crap! The Liberator needs 90 grams of weight, £6.99 x 4, carry the one...that's like five hundred dollars! Or a lot, anyway.

Ignoring your dodgy maths (LOL), I'm glad that I didn't pay that rate - 100g/$12 + P&P, however, I have yet to get it! But does seem useful where there is too little space for my usual lead shot (tiny) and Araldite (2-part epoxy glue) mix - This is chemically stable for years. It is an exothermic set (generates heat) so can soften plastic if too much is mixed at once - I know!

If your dentist has not gone digital, each radio graphic film contains a very thin sheet of pure lead, which can be easily cut, bent, moulded, etc. and most practitioners will give it away as they have pay for disposal. It is not contaminated by saliva, etc. as it is sealed in each packet.

The problem may be finding a non-digital practice, particularly in N America.

MD.

[Sten Ekedahl]

IIRC there is a small company in the US that makes and sells custom molded lead nose weights for models. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the company, but I've seen their products reviewed at http://modelingmadness.com/. Most weights are for 1/48 jets, but they also make weights for some 1/72 models, notably bombers with a nose gear, although I'm not sure if they make one for the B-24. But it might be worth checking out. And as far as I remember, prices were very reasonable, only a couple of bucks.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Sten Ekedahl

[Navy Bird]

Uh...well...I...no. No I do not. Actually always thought/hoped they were the same.

I believe the colour sometimes used in B-24 cockpits was Dark Dull Green. This should help:

http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

Cheers,

Bill

[Tempestwulf]

you could try tack the weight in place with Blutak. Works pretty well and squishes in it gravity isn't a problem as in 'will the weights want to move once in place'

[Procopius]

I believe the colour sometimes used in B-24 cockpits was Dark Dull Green. This should help:

http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

Cheers,

Bill

Huh, okay. Geeze, there are a lot of interior greens used on US aircraft, couldn't they just stick to Interior Green? Jerks. Let me see what I have that's a close-ish match.

you could try tack the weight in place with Blutak. Works pretty well and squishes in it gravity isn't a problem as in 'will the weights want to move once in place'

I'm thinking I might use the lead sinkers in miliput in the forward bomb bay cell(? proper term?).

[Procopius]

The problem may be finding a non-digital practice, particularly in N America.

MD.

Yes, my dentist has definitely gone digital, and after having a filling fall out, I'm not entirely sure I intend to continue with him. He seems like kind of a good-time-Charlie.

IIRC there is a small company in the US that makes and sells custom molded lead nose weights for models. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the company, but I've seen their products reviewed at http://modelingmadness.com/. Most weights are for 1/48 jets, but they also make weights for some 1/72 models, notably bombers with a nose gear, although I'm not sure if they make one for the B-24. But it might be worth checking out. And as far as I remember, prices were very reasonable, only a couple of bucks.

These guys? Thanks for the tip, Sten! I've emailed them. I see they don't take any method of payment developed after the Guilded Age, but that can be worked with.

No no no - different, yes, but not in the least bit useful. Yeah, sorry about that... Freightdog's stuff is excellent, so - not having this sheet - I can only assume this is a misprint. Sorry, young fellow .

I may have to contact Colin...I hate to ask for a replacement if it can be avoided, but needs must when the devil drives.

[Sten Ekedahl]

more

These guys? Thanks for the tip, Sten! I've emailed them. I see they don't take any method of payment developed after the Guilded Age, but that can be worked with.

Yes, they're the ones. Really surprising their products aren't more widespread.

[Procopius]

Yes, they're the ones. Really surprising their products aren't more widespread.

I emailed him, and he emailed me back -- very impressive, since it's after midnight right now. They make a noseweight for the Minicraft kit, which as he's not sure will fit, he's kindly offered to send me for the price of postage. If I can't make use of it on this, I'll pay it forward to some needy reader of this thread. In the meantime:

I cut up a 1 oz (28 grams) zinc Pinewood Derby weight with bolt cutters, as one does -- NB I was never a boyscout, for I was kicked out of the Webelos -- and added that to the forward bomb bay. The kit wants ninety grams (3+ oz) all in the very forward nose, so I can only imagine how heavy this kit will be; it already has immense heft, probably close to 40 grams, albeit further after than enjoined.

Following Bill's helpful save, I dug around for FS34092 (Dark Dull Green), but only had FS34102 (Medium Green), which I now see is probably too light.

Lifecolor apparently uses FS34092 as RAF Dark Green(!!!), so a possible solution presents itself, if I feel like a third time around painting this tomorrow.

[rob85]

This is a good idea to make extra sure it doesn't sit http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234973325-north-american-b-25-j-bottoms-up-ii-hasegawa-172/?hl=bottomsLittle chocks behind the wheel!

Also great nose art and stunning metal finish

Rob

[Procopius]

This is a good idea to make extra sure it doesn't sit http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234973325-north-american-b-25-j-bottoms-up-ii-hasegawa-172/?hl=bottomsLittle chocks behind the wheel!

I'm really enjoying the fact that a plane named "Bottoms Up" needs help in keeping the nose down.

Also great nose art and stunning metal finish

Thanks! I can't tale much credit for the finish, Alclad greatly simplifies things. But I will happily take credit to generally picking the best possible decal option, as it's all done by a complicated system of my own devising, known only to me.

[Cookenbacher]

I'm glad I'm watching this one PC, lots of things to do before I'm ready to attempt this one. This is my introduction to nose weight issues - I always build jets wheels-up, and have so far completed a whopping one prop and it's a tail dragger. The B-24 is not a convenient design for nose weight, with the nose turret and bombardier's window in front.

Thanks for posting the article on interior paint Bill, very informative. I'm glad the great paint buying spree of 2014 included just about every possible interior green as well as green and yellow zinc chromate.

Keep up the good work PC, once again you're leading the way.

[06/24]

Lifecolor apparently uses FS34092 as RAF Dark Green(!!!), so a possible solution presents itself, if I feel like a third time around painting this tomorrow.

I think I used RAF dark green on one of my false starts (might have been a razorback p-47?) for a U.S. aircraft needing the dark dull green. Looked close enough to these (not very) discerning eyes.