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Enzo the Magnificent

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Hi Jay

Yes the E main u/c is different to the C, it has a wider track and at different angles not by much to the C this is so it can carry the Nuke which the C can not. The biggest thing is the Brakes very different to the C this is what most will spot the track and angles are so small you would not notice this.

The C and E also have different tail cones the C is longer than the E. The main u/c doors are not the same the C has a slot in them and the E dose not, but in the last few months of the C service in France you could see the odd C flying with E doors also B,s the same.

The Intake surrport stays are different the E has rods the C plates and the Cone next to the Fuse large is different on the C and the E a lot of kits are wrong in this place.

I have loads of photos which aim trying to get sorted so I can put  them on here for info but it takes time I shall try soonest to get it done as it shows you all the things you have asked.

I shall be at the IPMS Birmingham show this Sunday with the Mirage and French Sigs and will have all the photos there ( on a tablet) so if any one is going  pop by and you can have a look and a chat.

Keep on making Mirages

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PaulT 876 said:

Hi Jay

Yes the E main u/c is different to the C, it has a wider track and at different angles not by much to the C this is so it can carry the Nuke which the C can not. The biggest thing is the Brakes very different to the C this is what most will spot the track and angles are so small you would not notice this.

The C and E also have different tail cones the C is longer than the E. The main u/c doors are not the same the C has a slot in them and the E dose not, but in the last few months of the C service in France you could see the odd C flying with E doors also B,s the same.

The Intake surrport stays are different the E has rods the C plates and the Cone next to the Fuse large is different on the C and the E a lot of kits are wrong in this place.

I have loads of photos which aim trying to get sorted so I can put  them on here for info but it takes time I shall try soonest to get it done as it shows you all the things you have asked.

I shall be at the IPMS Birmingham show this Sunday with the Mirage and French Sigs and will have all the photos there ( on a tablet) so if any one is going  pop by and you can have a look and a chat.

Keep on making Mirages

Paul

 

Thank you Paul,

 

Interesting points. I have pored over high-res pics on walkaround sites and I didn't notice those details. I'm drawn by the idea of converting a 1/72 PJ Mirage IIIE (which has the C exhaust and tail cone in the box) into a C using a couple of bits left over by the R.V. Mirage IIC kit. I wonder how doable that is bearing in mind I don't mind a few scratchbuilt mods here and there - and what I'm seeing: very doable. I'm sure those pictures you mentioned will be most helpful for everyone building a Mirage III.

 

Jay

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6 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

 

Thank you Paul,

 

Interesting points. I have pored over high-res pics on walkaround sites and I didn't notice those details. I'm drawn by the idea of converting a 1/72 PJ Mirage IIIE (which has the C exhaust and tail cone in the box) into a C using a couple of bits left over by the R.V. Mirage IIC kit. I wonder how doable that is bearing in mind I don't mind a few scratchbuilt mods here and there - and what I'm seeing: very doable. I'm sure those pictures you mentioned will be most helpful for everyone building a Mirage III.

 

Jay

Take care, the C intakes are very different in length in relation to the caopy as well!

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3 hours ago, exdraken said:

Take care, the C intakes are very different in length in relation to the caopy as well!

 

The intake is the same length, a plug was added to the forward fuselage just behind the cockpit to bring the rear of the canopy in line with the front of the intake.

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10 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

 

Thank you Paul,

 

Interesting points. I have pored over high-res pics on walkaround sites and I didn't notice those details. I'm drawn by the idea of converting a 1/72 PJ Mirage IIIE (which has the C exhaust and tail cone in the box) into a C using a couple of bits left over by the R.V. Mirage IIC kit. I wonder how doable that is bearing in mind I don't mind a few scratchbuilt mods here and there - and what I'm seeing: very doable. I'm sure those pictures you mentioned will be most helpful for everyone building a Mirage III.

 

Jay

 

So Jay, if go ahead with this you will need to also cut a chunk of fuselage out from behind the cockpit, on the actual aircraft updating the C to an E included a fuselage extension directly behind the cockpit of 12"/300mm to increase the size of the Avionics bay. So in 1/72 you need to remove 4mm of the fuselage to convert back to a C.

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Thanks guys - I'll go at a snail's pace and leave enough time and room for corrections. Thing is, I've always wanted to build a blue IIIC. Having seen the new PJ kit and learning there's a few IIIC parts in it as well - I can't hold myself. 

 

Looking at how Dassault converted the C to an E, it seems this was one project where the constructors chose the path of least resistance: keep as much as possible and tweak and add a little here and there. So basically the changes are many but, apart from the few obvious ones in fuselage proportions & fin, they are very subtle.

 

Can't wait!

 

Jay

 

 

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7 hours ago, TrojanThunder said:

 

The intake is the same length, a plug was added to the forward fuselage just behind the cockpit to bring the rear of the canopy in line with the front of the intake.

Hi,

 

do not nail me on that, but I think the intake cross section was also increased to allow for higher air flow mass for the more powerful Atar-9C

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17 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

 

Thank you Paul,

 

Interesting points. I have pored over high-res pics on walkaround sites and I didn't notice those details. I'm drawn by the idea of converting a 1/72 PJ Mirage IIIE (which has the C exhaust and tail cone in the box) into a C using a couple of bits left over by the R.V. Mirage IIC kit. I wonder how doable that is bearing in mind I don't mind a few scratchbuilt mods here and there - and what I'm seeing: very doable. I'm sure those pictures you mentioned will be most helpful for everyone building a Mirage III.

 

Jay

 

 

The RV Mirage IIIE Exotic has both the IIIC and IIIE forward fuselage bits, but does not have the IIIC afterburner petals, the HPM/PJ kit has the longer fuselage tail of the Atar 9B, but not the afterburner petals, which are an eyelid design, although I think HPM or PJ do that as an accessory though.

If you are not in any sort of great hurry I can send you the IIIC nose parts from the RV kit if that would help.

Although mentioned the IIIC has a different mainwheel door with a slot in it, but it is also flat not bulged.  I assume the E is bulged for the fatter wheels, so maybe just sand down the PJ wheels before joining them together if you want to get that close.

 

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Hi Jay

The biggest bit is the cockpit nose section from the intakes forward as above, the rest is doable but why not get the AML C kit and work from there or the RV C kit.

I think the RV kit has 2 sets of main wheels one set for the C and one set for the E, the ones with the 4 brake cylinders is the C  the round one is the E.

There is also the the underside strake on the C the E has the belly tank.

I would not do a PJ kit like that when with just as if not less work you could do a Good C from the AML or RV kits just my way of looking at it.

 AML has just re-done there C with RV plastic and there resin bits I got a copy a few months back, now got 5 AML kits to do was going to do one for this GB but went for the Revell  E instead do not know now which would have been better.

See Ya Paul

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4 hours ago, Graeme H said:

 

 

The RV Mirage IIIE Exotic has both the IIIC and IIIE forward fuselage bits, but does not have the IIIC afterburner petals, the HPM/PJ kit has the longer fuselage tail of the Atar 9B, but not the afterburner petals, which are an eyelid design, although I think HPM or PJ do that as an accessory though.

If you are not in any sort of great hurry I can send you the IIIC nose parts from the RV kit if that would help.

Although mentioned the IIIC has a different mainwheel door with a slot in it, but it is also flat not bulged.  I assume the E is bulged for the fatter wheels, so maybe just sand down the PJ wheels before joining them together if you want to get that close.

 

 

Hi, I already have the RV IIIC forward fuselage I will use as a guide -as well as the eyelid petals, but thanks for your offer. I thought I saw the eyelid exhaust included in the PJ kit but I was wrong (fooled by parts 39 and 40). Good tip on the wheels, cheers! :thumbsup:

 

Jay

 

 

 

Edited by Mountain goat
Got names confused
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1 hour ago, PaulT 876 said:

Hi Jay

The biggest bit is the cockpit nose section from the intakes forward as above, the rest is doable but why not get the AML C kit and work from there or the RV C kit.

I think the RV kit has 2 sets of main wheels one set for the C and one set for the E, the ones with the 4 brake cylinders is the C  the round one is the E.

There is also the the underside strake on the C the E has the belly tank.

I would not do a PJ kit like that when with just as if not less work you could do a Good C from the AML or RV kits just my way of looking at it.

 AML has just re-done there C with RV plastic and there resin bits I got a copy a few months back, now got 5 AML kits to do was going to do one for this GB but went for the Revell  E instead do not know now which would have been better.

See Ya Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Thank you -I was wondering what the differences were between the brakes, cheers for the info!

 

Other kits, thought about it, yes - to me personally the RV kit looks like a nightmare in the box with all those unnecessary rivets all over the place. But that's just my taste. I could fill the rivets and sand them over but I'd probably end up with a pockmarked surface. I'm glad I got one cheap, as after opening the box I soon decided to use it only for spares. And the AML, well, I forgot about it to be honest. Could have done that. It's just that I've bought my first PJ ever only a few weeks ago and was impressed with it. So yes. Or voilá as the French say. B)

 

Jay

Edited by Mountain goat
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Hi Jay

I think we both think the same of the RV kit, I only have the copy that I got with the AML boxing, I saw a AML box under the table at a show and it was about £3 so just got it when got back to my stand and had a better look I noticed the RV plastic sticker well I have the resin bits, thinking about it need to dig the box out might be able to use the cockpit on my build if it's in the box as shall not use the main bits.

PJ are way to much for me I have a set limit for kits and do not go above it.

voilà = Here is      sorry lost in translation  (used Google translator)

 

Paul

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Hopefully a quick & simple question & one I hope I've not missed earlier in this thread, I don't feel like going through 30 pages all over again. An RAAF IIIO from a Heller IIIE in 1/72, can I do it? Apart from leaving off the doppler radar bulge is there much else involved?

Steve.

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Thanks Antoine, of course I should've thought to look there but in truth, I wouldn't have known if what I was looking at was different or not, it is good to have that reassurance. I think after seeing the cockpit detail shots in Giorgio's walkaround, I think I will treat this one to a Pavla cockpit.

Steve.

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6 hours ago, eclipse said:

Little test : 

 

Now, some of you have already read their Cocardes' book about Mirage F1 carefully ! ;)

 

Can you determine what kind of Mirage F1 is that ?:hmmm:

 

Haha nice idea. Hmmm... the panels on the spine look kind of generic? Probably wrong but it has an IFR probe and I see a hole in the lower fuselage near the nose opening so I'm saying F1CR. :hmmm:

 

Jay

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9 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

it has an IFR probe and I see a hole in the lower fuselage near the nose opening so I'm saying F1CR. :hmmm:

IFR probe, ok, but it's not a F1CR.

 

8 hours ago, Antoine said:

A simple F1C?

No, there is a visible feature which doesn't belong to F1C...

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12 hours ago, Jabba said:

There looks to be a second avionics bay just behind the normal first one.

Well done ! :thumbsup:

That's why it can't be a simple F1C.

12 hours ago, Jabba said:

But which variant it would belong to I am not sure as a few had this option.

There are nine versions of Mirage F1 equipped with this second avionics bay... Let's make your choice !!:hmmm:

 

Ok... Here is another picture, with one new clue !;)

11041011.jpg

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3 hours ago, PaulT 876 said:

A F1c-200 -EQ6 ??

Interesting mix between air-to-air C version and E version with air-to-ground capacities (EQ are capable to deliver Exocet, BGL, etc. that C cannot carry).

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