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Enzo the Magnificent

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On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 20:08, Antoine said:

 

I'll have to focus on something really simple, and I'm thinking more and more about an Italeri Kfir, OOB with just Aztec decals and maybe a resin bang seat.

 

 

If I can I just offer up some advice run away from that kit, there is nothing but heartache there

If you want something simple, get the new PJ or HPM Mirage

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Hello folks

I'm part way through three GB WIP (F-111, Yak-23, KASKR -1 Autogyro), all being currently done from my bed, on a tray. This is increasingly becoming my 'normal' modelling area :confused: .

 

A flying boat is on the cards soon, but....

 

Wanting to try to be a man of my word:

 

I said, way back, that I would build a Spanish Mirage. I have a Heller kit in the stash but; I saw a Special hobby kit at a very good price from an Evilbay person in Germany.

 

The wallet fell open, money flew away, 10,000 miles, to beautiful Germany (very reasonable international postage rates), and this one is on its way to me:

 

IMG_9150.jpg

 

I don't know much about Mirages. Just that they are very attractive and space age looking aircraft. From France.

 

I like France a lot and I like very attractive and space age looking aircraft 🇫🇷 🚀 :winkgrin:.

 

If anyone could give any hints regarding any after market bits I really should get to improve the kit, any pitfalls etc, I would really appreciate it. I can order them whilst waiting for it to arrive. It has a Spanish version right OOB. Yay :penguin:!

 

It may be some time before I can start, so I'll turn it into good research and learning time. :).

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

 

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4 hours ago, Graeme H said:

 

 

If I can I just offer up some advice run away from that kit, there is nothing but heartache there

If you want something simple, get the new PJ or HPM Mirage

 

Hi Graeme, 

I've just three of them Italeri kits...

Won't bin them, maybe you can tell where the problem is?

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I also had 3 of them acquired back in the early '90's, still have 2, one part built, and being turned into a Mirage, this has been ongoing since the early '90's, it is only now with the huge amount of decent Mirage spares that comes with the new PJ/HPM kit that I have done some more on it. 

 

DSC01811.jpg

 

If you have a Hasegawa one put the 2 side by side.

The main parts, ie fuselage and wings are quite good

 

To summarize the cockpit and coaming is a pure work of fiction, and really makes it look very bad, I happened to have some High Planes resin Mirage cockpits, which i'm using.

The Exhaust is nothing like a Kfir, source a good F-4 GE one from somewhere, and the parabrake fairing could do with a makeover.

The nose which should be very slim is fat enough to turn into a radar one, if you want a Kfir one source the Nesher/Dagger one from the HPM kit, or let me know your address and I will send you one if you can't get one closer to home.

The ACMI pod looks great, but I have no idea if these are correct to scale or not, but the Elevon hinge fairing that it is attached to is way over scale, the Elevon fairing is about 4 times the size it should be, being much much larger than the inboard one which on the real thing is larger than the outer, I'm using a pair of spares from the miss moulded ones in the PJ/HPM kit, with one each from 2 sprues, it's the smaller one that was miss moulded, and PJ/HPM gave you an extra sprue of 4 corrected ones, not just one fairing, which was very good of them.  I notice on the new revised tooling that is corrected on the main sprue, and you don't get the additional sprue any longer.

 

I have not got far enough into the build to tell if the undercarriage and wheels are good or not.

I used the tailpipe from the unused "B" included in every PJ/HPM kit, suitably cut down to the "E" length, which took me 2 goes, as I'm terrible at cutting round things, and have some resin Mirage tailpipes by Highplanes to put in there.

It has progressed from the photo above, but I don't have any later shots, the plan is to have an Argentine one with Matra's as used in the Malvinas.

 

 

Edited by Graeme H
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Well, it's obvious you know your subject.

I had plans (not for this GB) to build one side by side with the AMK, seems a good idea to stick to it.

Now, I'll see, Mirage III/5 from Heller or PJ, or maybe an Hasegawa F1.

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5 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

If anyone could give any hints regarding any after market bits I really should get to improve the kit, any pitfalls etc, I would really appreciate it. 

 

No aftermarket needed.  It's a superb kit straight from the box. :thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

 

If anyone could give any hints regarding any after market bits I really should get to improve the kit, any pitfalls etc, I would really appreciate it. I can order them whilst waiting for it to arrive. It has a Spanish version right OOB. Yay :penguin:!

 

It may be some time before I can start, so I'll turn it into good research and learning time. :).

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

 

 

Tony

 

Great choice!

 

There are plenty of AM bits for the SH kits now although not as many for the two seater.

 

I would heartily recommend looking through Jay's (aka Mountain Goat) build thread which is linked in the reference section.

 

The Spanish jets had an extra intake on the starboard upper fuselage by the fin. They also had some changes to the airbrake holes.

 

From the 90's onwards there were various avionics upgrades which added some extra antenna so you need to pick your subject accordingly.

 

Hope you're able to get back to the bench soon!

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In addition to Graeme's very good assesment of the Italeri Kfir, I may add that panel lines on this kit are very inconsistent, they are quite wide everywhere but depth is not the same everywhere, meaning that some rescribing is needed to get a good result (or actually just to prevent some lines from disappearing under the paint). The kit also lacks the plethora of small intakes and vents that the Kfir features, particularly on the undersides.

Fit is pretty bad and a lot of parts would benefit from replacing, like the intakes and the parts that Graeme already mentioned. I tried to build one for a previous GB here, unfortunately I never completed the model and it's still on my bench waiting for a coat of primer

 

Of course some of the corrections I tried to implement are not necessary if a modeller just wants a quick and easy build. The bad fit however will haunt you no matter what kind of interest you have for accuracy

 

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15 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

 

I notice you added the word "first" into that sentence.

 

So...  Abu Dhabi first, then Australia  :D 

 

Well, that's the plan... :D

I'm looking into RAAF decals and I'm not sure what aircraft I want to build... I was initially leaning towards a 75 Sqn. aircraft because I love their tail markings and have decals for these (low visibility though). Then I started thinking of A3-97 when serving with 3 Sqn. The reason is that the cockpit section of this aircraft is on display at Fighter World in Williamtown and when I visited the museum in 2009 I had the pleasure of watching what it was like to look at the world from a Mirage III-O seat

 

P6270995_zpsewuuehmd.jpg

 

Problem will be to find at least the tail marking for one such aircraft, the decals you're using for your build here look great but I can't find them around. Will have to search further

 

13 hours ago, Wez said:

 

I'm with my learned colleague Enzo on this one, would be great to see an Abu Dhabi Mirage 5!

 

Will build one then ! I have 2 HPM kits, one for the Emirate and one for OZ...

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16 hours ago, Antoine said:

I've heard somewhere that your research are more wine-oriented than anything else...

 

That's what I said, that's what I meant by Gallic flavour!

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1 hour ago, Enzo Matrix said:

How many Australian Mirages do we have?!?!? :thumbsup: 

 

Just the five...

 

 

...room for more! :D

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Don't apologise Antoine, it reminds me of the old public information films we used to get back in the day and the flight safety films we used to get in trade training.

 

Thanks for sharing.

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23 hours ago, eclipse said:

The funniest with the Mirage 5EAD is that, with the specific equipments claimed by Abu Dhabi, the technical definition of this version made it looks like a Mirage IIIE...:D

 

Yes, it's hard for everyone outside Dassault to understand what actually makes a Mirage III and what a Mirage 5 considering that some 5s had the same avionic fit and external shape of the III.. :D

In Abu Dhabi's case they used both what we are used to think of when we read Mirage 5 (sharp pointy nose with no big radar, designated 5AD) and what we'd call a IIIE (big radome with radar and other bits, the 5EAD you mentioned). My plan is to build a 5AD simply because I have decals for this.

Edited by Giorgio N
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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

With its original paint scheme :thumbsup: or the latter, lighter <_< ?

 

Not easy to answer this... the Carpena sheet suggests the original darker one, that however was mostly seen with different markings from those included in the sheet. There's a good picture of this aircraft on the web here, carrying the exact same markings proposed by Carpena:

 

http://www.dstorm.eu/pictures/nose-arts/mirage/uae/m5ad_402_1.jpg

 

The picture seems to show a lighter scheme compared to the original one, however the colour demarcation is the same of the original darker scheme, while most pictures I've seen with the lighter scheme show a different pattern for the two upper colours (and different markings, with no fuselage roundels and a small flag on the tail). At the same time the colours don't look like the lighter scheme either, with the darker brown in particular looking more yellowish

So there are a few possibilities here:

1) the picture shows the original scheme but for some reason the colours are not reproduced correctly (unlikely)

2) there was an intermediate scheme using colours lighter than the original ones while keeping the same pattern (could be)

3) the later scheme was used in both the early and late pattern and the colours look different because of the picture

 

Examples of the original and later schemes can be seen here:

 

http://www.dstorm.eu/pages/en/uae/mirage5.html

 

A few pictures of 402 can be seen on this page, and the older ones clearly show the original darker scheme. All other aircrafts show clearly either the original or the later scheme. All apart from 401 that is shown in a scheme very similar to that worn by 402 in both pattern and colours.

Of course any information or idea is welcome !

Edited by Giorgio N
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Hum...:hmmm:

 

According to the markings available on this sheet (red and yellow airbrakes, two kinds of serial... all missing with the latter paint scheme) and the color references provided, it seems to be the first darker paint sheme. I know new roundels have been applied on it.

The latter pattern with lighter colors is the same as the one of the Mirage 2000 whereas the former follows the typical pattern of camouflaged Mirage IIIs.

 

Here is a comparison:

http://www.dstorm.eu/pictures/nose-arts/mirage/uae/m5ad_405_2.jpg

http://www.dstorm.eu/pictures/nose-arts/mirage/uae/m2000_745_1.jpg

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Hi,

So I think my entry will be based on something I can actually finish since I didn't meet the past two group builds' deadlines on time. I really wanted to do a Mirage IVA because I have a nice and complicated modification plan for the Heller kit. But that'll take too long. I think I'll go for an early Air Defence Mirage F.1C instead -by Special Hobby, should be doable in the time frame (I'm a slow builder).

 

By early Mirage F.1 I mean one in the time frame 1975-1982. I'm looking into three possible choices - I might go for an F.1C-200 (with RWR and refuelling probe) of 1/5 Vendée carrying one centreline R530 missile, a vanilla F.1C of 1/12 Cambrésis with Super 530s, or a clean 2/30 Normandie-Niemen one which is also a vanilla F.1C.

 

I'm looking at starting in the coming weeks. Now working on an 'Hangarette' aircraft shelter to complement this project.

 

Jay

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Mountain goat said:

Hi,

So I think my entry will be based on something I can actually finish since I didn't meet the past two group builds' deadlines on time. I really wanted to do a Mirage IVA because I have a nice and complicated modification plan for the Heller kit. But that'll take too long. I think I'll go for an early Air Defence Mirage F.1C instead -by Special Hobby, should be doable in the time frame (I'm a slow builder).

 

By early Mirage F.1 I mean one in the time frame 1975-1982. I'm looking into three possible choices - I might go for an F.1C-200 (with RWR and refuelling probe) of 1/5 Vendée carrying one centreline R530 missile, a vanilla F.1C of 1/12 Cambrésis with Super 530s, or a clean 2/30 Normandie-Niemen one which is also a vanilla F.1C.

 

I'm looking at starting in the coming weeks. Now working on an 'Hangarette' aircraft shelter to complement this project.

 

Jay

 

 

 

Jay,

 

The hangarette sounds an interesting project, I'd like to see that come to fruition.

 

As for the early F1C's I'd be torn between the Vendée or the Cambrésis markings as they are my favourite of the early schemes.

 

The EC.1/5 jet wouldn't require shortening to the F1C length...

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1 hour ago, Mountain goat said:

a vanilla F.1C of 1/12 Cambrésis with Super 530s, or a clean 2/30 Normandie-Niemen one which is also a vanilla F.1C.

If I understand, you're talking about desert paint scheme... but AFAIK there is no Mirage F1 in such scheme between 1975 and 1982! :hmmm:

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14 minutes ago, Wez said:

 

Jay,

 

The hangarette sounds an interesting project, I'd like to see that come to fruition.

 

As for the early F1C's I'd be torn between the Vendée or the Cambrésis markings as they are my favourite of the early schemes.

 

The EC.1/5 jet wouldn't require shortening to the F1C length...

 

Thanks Wez,

 

Indeed perhaps I should post the build over on Diorama WiP. It involved obtaining leftover boxes from an IKEA paper recycling wheelie bin and an angry looking security guard so I can't say I didn't put effort into it :). 

 

I agree as to the F1 schemes, they look fantastic don't they - the only reason I would do the EC 2/30 one is to one day recreate something like this:

 

XN778H_19_0676_EWsb.jpg

 

As to shortening the nose section: apparently it was just 1.1 mm that needed to come off right behind the radar compartment - so I'm hoping that simply by sawing in two and then putting the parts back together should do the trick.

 

Jay

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11 minutes ago, eclipse said:

If I understand, you're talking about desert paint scheme... but AFAIK there is no Mirage F1 in such scheme between 1975 and 1982! :hmmm:

 

Hi eclipse - no, I meant 'vanilla' as in: 'normal' or 'standard'. Like: why have vanilla ice-cream if there's other flavours as well? So the F.1C would be vanilla and the F.1C-200 vaniila with chocolate on top. Or something. I guess the F.1CR would be pistachio/ pistache with blueberries? :eat: :lol:

 

Jay

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