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Hornells RCAF Canso 9754 'Mary K', 162 Sqdn help wanted


Nearlymen

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A Quickee question !

I’ve been looking for info on Hornells RCAF Canso in which he won a VC. The aircraft serialled 9754 (and marked ‘Mary K’ under the canopy). In descriptions I’ve found it carried an ID code Letter ‘P’ but I can find no pics showing this, only modern day aircraft repainted to show this scheme.

I’ve found two WW2 era pics of the airframe, one being a close up of the nose with a group of RCAF members alongside , and also a side elevation but without the letter ‘P’.

Does anyone have a wartime WW2 era pic of the airframe carrying the code ‘P’ ? I’m not interested in modern day canso’s repainted to show this scheme, just confirmation of the code letter in WW2.

Any help appreciated.

Cheerio

Clive

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Clive: An old friend, now gone west, was the radar operator/tech on the Mary K, 162 Sqn. Ray DI'd the aircraft the day of her last flight then went into hospital very sick. He missed the last flight but while in hospital he made some pencil drawings of the aircraft. I'll see if I can find them and possibly get the info that you want

My rendition is on my web site http://www.barneysairforce.com

Barney

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Clive: Looking through my hoard of aerojunk I came across a story by Carl Vincent, "Four Weeks In June" a story of 162 (BR) Squadron RCAF. There are numerous photos in the article but none of Mary K. All of the photos show the individual aircraft code letter on the fuselage behind the blister and ahead of the roundel.

This would lead me to assume (I know!) that Mary K would have had the code on the fuselage as well.

Regards from the soggy west coast of Canada

'Barney

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Jack: I read the link and as per the Carl Vincent story, the aircraft would have carried the code on the final flight in June 1944. And as another bit of interest, when I moved to Boundary Bay (wartime home of 5 OTU RCAF), I met a lady who worked at the Boeing Vancouver factory and was an inspector on the construction line. She actually worked on 9754.

Barney

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Gentlemen, thank you so much for pitching in here it's much appreciated. I know I might sound like a 'doubting Thomas' but I always find it's better to try and get first hand (or at least get to the root of !) information on colour schemes etc if I can.

Feel free to post anything that may be applicable, since I'm not the first and I won't be the last to have an interest in this particular subject !

Many thanks

Cheerio

Clive

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Since we have some chaps here who are knowledgable than I (not that difficult !) another small query ?

Photos of Canso's I've seen have the forward fuselage grey extending along the top of the canopy and then it stops. Also the masking pattern i've seen is that they didn't mask all the individual windows ratherthey masked all on both sides in a single sheet so when viewed from above the top of the canopy area has a grey rectangle running down the middle then when it reaches the back of the canopy moves down the sides slightly in a feathered manner (photos of this in the canadian national archives).

On a lot of models of Hornells machine I've seen the camo spray top goes all over the canopy side windows and extends as far forward as the front turret ?

Can anyone post a pic of this on a 162 sqdn machine ?

You know what they say 'Don't ask, don't get' !!

Cheerio

Clive

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Hi Terry,

That will be an interesting Decal sheet ! Operational photos of 162 Sqdn are a bit thin on the ground, hopefully you've found a lot more than me.

I've picked up a few things trawling through Canadian online archives. One being how the canopy was masked, i.e. with a single sheet around the front and side with the sliding windows on top masked also with a single sheet each side. This leaves the canopy framing basically white with a grey rectangle on the top. The grey was then carried back with a feathered finish partially down the sides and back to the wing support pillar. Then from the front of the canopy to the back of front turret was sprayed only on the top surface. It took me a while to determine this and only became clear with a series of elevated photos I found of 9787 (I think !) online. Incidently these photos also show the upper camo pattern, roundel size and position, but with a later bubble turret at the front. Observation windows, and the rear twin bubble windows had all panes individually masked. Once you get your 'eye in' on this you can pick it up on a lot of photos.

See here for what I mean : http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/lac-bac/search/images just search for Canso.

I think 'Mary K' was turned out like this at least until the move to Wick (and whilst carring the P code letter ), photos taken prior to the move would seem to back this up. What I don't know is if a field applied overspray of paint on the nose was ever applied on arrival in Wick, I can't seem to find anything to support this (Thanks to Barney for sending me the Carl Vincent 'Four weeks in June Article). Photos taken of other 162 sqdn aircraft in Iceland in Oct 44 don't have this overspray( carl Vincent photos)..

Another thing I haven't quite been able to determine is the Nose ID lettering, it seems as though some of the 9XXX series carried the full number on the nose and some of the 11XXX carried only the last two digits and..... all stations inbetween ! A bit confusing ! I did see one photo where the 9XXX number and a small sqdn code letter was on the nose (9840 -J 'Hairless Joe') !

Also picked up two types of demarcation for the upper wing camo over the engines, one is in a straight line over the top inline with the leading edge (example was 9777), the second is horizontal around the cowling (example was 9751). Other variations looked more like engine staining to me on closer inspection. Thing is if you can't see a demarcation in these two patterns then the airframe is overall white (which makes 88 in the 1/72 Airfix kit instructions wrong) !

162 Sqdn aircraft in Iceland it seems had the de icing boots on the leading edges unpainted i.e. black, but looking a factory finish they seemed to be in white expanding paint. Thus in Wick I assume they they must have been similar to Iceland I.e. black.

Finally if you really want a good read on 162 Sqdn read this chaps 386 page thesis on the operational history which goes into some depth including airframe numbers on specific missions 27mb file

http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp03/MQ54664.pdf

Well that's my two penneth worth ! I'm sure your investigations have gone into far more detail than I have so far and I'm really looking forward now to your sheets release.

Now all we need is some enterprising chap to do a Canadian radar conversion kit in 1/48 as well and I'll be a happy bunny !

Cheerio

Clive

Edited by Nearlymen
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Cheers Terry for the kind words ! I think in the past there may have been some confusion between RAF Catalinas and RCAF Canso’s (I know I have had confusion !) which have resulted in some ‘close but not quite’ schemes. I’ve done research before for books, magazines and kits before on other subjects, you get an ‘eye for design’ and tend to zoom in on smaller details which in turn builds the bigger picture…. plus being a draughtsman by trade also helps !

It’s nice to know that you’re going back to first principles with your decals, and looking at things in a fresh perspective, I’ll be first in the Queue for the 162 Sqdn release !

Cheerio

Clive

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Signed up today !

I've no worries on the decal front since I have here your More RCAF Mossies set for the Airfix 1/24 model (one of those I'll get round to it one day kits) but the info supplied with the pics is really comprehensive, a darn good read !

Cheerio

Clive

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