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Amodel D.H. 60 Moth kits.


Rick Brown

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The Dukes aeroplanes were usually sold abroad after his service.

G-AALG stayed (or returned to) in the UK, it was registered to the Newcastle on Tyne Aero Club from 1939-1940 at Cramlington and latterly at the Municiple Airport Kenlow(???)

Some musings on your excellent photo John, and thanks for sharing:-

Ronaldsway would be a likely day trip destination from Newcastle. The photo seems much more relaxed than shots with the Duke in evidence, and there's another smaller aircraft parked wings folded next to it (Comper??), so was this a fly in after the Duke had disposed of the aircraft, but still retaining the colour scheme?

I'm guessing silver (or white) separating the red and blue, but which way round?

Did Newcastle Aero Club have "colours"?

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Yes I agree that this must be at a later date and in different ownership. The wings do appear white. The a/c to the right isn't a Swift as they didn't use slats. In fact it's a puzzle as so few light civil types used slats, it's a monoplane and quite low. I've been through the usual suspects and at first I thought Pussmoth but again only one seems to have had slats (of a different kind).

I'll have to think on it. The Royal Blue was very Dark (I have an actual sample of it).

The words crossed out are of course Cramlington (Newcastle) and Kenlow might be a private strip near by.

John

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The Ronaldsway photo was taken in 1932. The aircraft to the right is Puss Moth G-ABNN, in which Prince George flew in to the Isle of Man. It was the Island's first royal visit by air. The local paper helpfully described the colour scheme: "The body work and the struts are finished in red and blue enamel and the wings are of silver."

Pilot of the DH60 was Flt Lt Healey.

Edited by Ivor Ramsden
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Ivor, thanks for the background to the photo and confirmation of the colours - I may have to flip a coin for which way round they are as there's no difference in the photo! Well spotted on the white outline to the wing reg, I can just make it out.

John, it's not Kenlow, it's Kenton and a reference to what is now Newcastle Airport which is usually referred to as being at Woolsington, however if you look at a map Kenton Bank Foot is also very close. The handwriting isn't the easiest to read (better than mine though!)

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Well at least my original guess at a Pussmoth was right, it was the use of that type of Slat which was confusing. I don't recall seeing another Puss fitted with standard slats (ABMD was one with full span slats) nor indeed a pic of ABNN, BBS and BRR, yes. It just shows how old photographs can mislead on colours. How refreshing that a local paper recalls the colours whilst Flight and Aeroplane seldom ever bothered to inform the readership of such things.

The double letters in the reg were a quirk of the Royal aeroplanes. My prop is off G-ACDD.

John

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These might be of interest here. These colour sketches I found among the Late Mike Eacock's collection and I believe they are from Mike Keep who did most of the monochrome colour views in the old SAM's and are references for the article on the Royal Flights.

John

img163_zpsyz7uc4kt.jpg

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This is turning out to be a rather interesting thread chaps.

I'm just digging through some shots of the IOM and have found a couple, including G-AAJL after a slight prang.

Keep it up.

Rick.

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That's the scheme in the AirDecal sheet, so we've gone full circle.

Ivor's photo shows no discernable tonal difference between what we know to be red and blue, the demarkation is only evident because of the white pinstripe.

Without the pinstripe the scheme could look a single colour when photographed in B/W as per post 19.

So we can say G-AALG definitely wore one version of the Guards colours (Ivor's photograph), and most likely 2 versions (Airdecal / Mike Keep / photos in post 19 & 22)

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This is turning out to be a rather interesting thread chaps.

I'm just digging through some shots of the IOM and have found a couple, including G-AAJL after a slight prang.

Keep it up.

Rick.

Rick, that's very interesting. I've heard a story about HRH having an incident here but I've never been able to find any record. Clearly it was his support plane that had the incident, not the Puss Moth.

Over to you ...

The local paper was brilliant at giving the colours of many of the pre-war Isle of Man air race aircraft. I suppose it makes sense because few people would be able to identify the aircraft by shape.

For the countless modellers who are about to embark on scratch-builds of G-ABNN the paper also records that the seats in the Puss Moth were upholstered in red!

Edited by Ivor Ramsden
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Rick, that's very interesting. I've heard a story about HRH having an incident here but I've never been able to find any record.

Over to you ...

John Aero, it appears that Mike Keep's sketches are wrong in that they refer to the DH60 having no cheat line. Clearly it did in June 1932.

Hi Ivor.

Source was "Rough Landing or Fatal Flight" Steve Poole.

ISBN 1 901508 03.

Not sure if it's still in print, but worth grabbing a copy.

This accident happened 14th April 1933 but did not involve HRH.

No fatalities.

It's amazing how many aircraft manage to hit the IOM!

Mannans Cloak usually....

BTW, regular visitor, usually beginning of June :winkgrin:

Rick.

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No Mike's sketches match other photos which show no cheat line on G-AALG (Con number 1411). Without a cheat line it's very difficult to define the demarcation of the Red and Blue. It's highly probable for this reason the aeroplane was 'smartened up' at a later point with cheat lines. Another thing about the IoM picture is that the fin and rudder differ to all the other Royal aeroplanes in having Silver on the vertical surfaces. This aeroplane was fitted out with deepened Stbd luggage accommodation including a tunnel for golf clubs and walking sticks.

John

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John Aero - Yes, I had posted before engaging brain. I edited my post to remove the reference to Mike's sketches, but not quickly enough!

Rick, I've got my wires crossed somewhere. I thought you were referring to AALG having a prang but it's clear enough in your post - AAJL. I knew about that one. Steve Poole is one of our museum bods. His book is out of print but we occasionally have second hand copies for sale at the museum. Steve's working on a new version of his book but you'll need a wheelbarrow to carry it because he's collected so much information. The current total of aircraft incidents that have been discovered in and around the IOM is well over 400 now, and counting.

So we're still without evidence of an incident involving a royal aircraft. It's a long time since I was told about it but the story went that HRH pranged on landing or take off and the aircraft was dismantled and shipped back to De Havilland's under great secrecy for repair. The complete lack of evidence suggests that it might be bull but stranger things have been covered up. Sorry about the thread hijack.

Edited by Ivor Ramsden
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I have just received this picture showing the Pussmoth NN which shows the normal tail markings for the Kings Flight aeroplanes, making the colours on G-AALG unusual in these photos. NN also displays mudguards which again are unusual rather than full spats, but these were also fitted to the Royal Pussmoth RR but not the first Pussmoth G-ABBS.

John

Pussmoth G-ABNN Credit, Manx Aviation and Military Museum.

DH8020Puss20Moth20G-ABNN20201932_zpsrtnn

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I have just received this picture showing the Pussmoth NN which shows the normal tail markings for the Kings Flight aeroplanes,

That looks like yet another variation to me John. What looks like three stripes on the fin/rudder I think is actually four. Red and Blue on the fuselage with little/no contrast, so what appears to be a single central stripe on the fin/rudder is actually red/blue as per the 60M behind, but without the central white pinstripe. The fin front and rudder rear appear to me to be silver dope as per the 60M - note the very sharp contrast change at the top of the blue fin/fuselage fairing (another extra feature?) and tonal similarity to wing & tailplane

I've also found a painting of G-ABBS which shows the silver fin and rudder with just a blue stripe between. The site would imply that it's a contemporary image, and it has that "cigarette card" period look to it...

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This is not correct, that site hasn't got the accompanying titles right either The Gull is not a Kittiwake and the caption for the Pterodactyl (biplane?) and the other plane is a Boulton Paul P.12. The Avro is a 504M.

This is getting very confusing

The colours on the Puss painting and with the exception there should be no Silver on the fin/rudder, are very close to the photo below. Here is a Flight copyright photo of the same a/c. Remember we are probably looking at Orthochrome pictures so tonal values are very odd like roundels with the Red being deeper than the Dark Blue. So the rudder should be DB, R, DB. The fuselage I make to be Dark Blue top inc motor cowl with Red lower fuselage and u/c. My propeller as found was Dark Blue overall with Red tips separated from the Blue with a thin White cheat line and this was off Foxmoth G-ACDD.

John

img483_zpsenxbu2zn.jpg

FLIGHT Copyright

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Just to follow up on these colours, (the Brigade of Guards colours), it would seem to me that all of the single engine types used by the Royal brothers up to the acquisition of the DH 84 Dragon, had the Dark Blue colour on the fuselage tops with the Red below. The vertical tails were always Blue Red Blue with the notable exception of G-AALG at some time in 1932. Also if my sketches are attributable to Mike Keep then these are right but he mixed up the Lettratone shading (as labled) in the actual article in SAM Vol 15 Number 2 Nov 1992..

John

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Hi,

I am just now doing DH 60G from A-Model. Actually I am doing a conversion (scratch) to float version. , used between 1929-41 by RYAF (c/n 1189, "Sarajevo").

Impressions from build are that for sure the dihedral of wings is too low. They are practically flat. But correction is very simple - just some brutal force :). I was not not happy with clear parts (windscreens) which are to be cut out of a flat piece of - how to name it - a foil (?) or film. It is not fitting to curve of upper part of fuselage. At least for me it was a problem - i made own substitutes. The position of spurs beteween wings was not well marked on wings - this needed small correction as well.

If anybody interesting - my construction looks now like this (without rigings yet)::

dh60g%20DSC03508_zpsujlyktrg.jpg

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

P.S. from 12 Feb - yesterday I posted finished on RFI

Edited by JWM
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  • 2 weeks later...

A couple of 'warnings' as a result of my Amodel Moth build so far (apologies if these have been mentioned before).

1) Four fine struts are moulded on the sprue in two groups of two (parts 22 & 23 as one pair and parts 25 & 26 as another). However, on the plane, 22 & 25 go together (the two rear cabane struts), as do 23 & 26 (the two tailplane struts). The instructions are clear on this, but the odd pairing of the parts on the sprue caught me out (they are very similar to look at, but not actually identical).

2) When I fitted the two inverted V cabane struts using the location holes provided, the rear strut ended up being vertical, but it should slope forward slightly (I think), in line with the interplane struts. Left unattended, the vertical rear strut will lead to the upper wing being located too far back and the slight wing stagger will be lost.

Hope this is of some help/interest.

Cliff

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Have just completed my first Amodel Moth, the

Shuttleworth DH60C. As CliffB says above, great

care is needed on the wing strut attachment and

alignment and the struts are rather fragile!

Would recommend checking photos at all stages.

There is a slight stagger, three inches in the

real aircraft and the wing gap is 4ft 10 inches.

Thought the wheels were rather poor, the older

type wheels look a bit small to my eyes and are

not well moulded. I replaced mine with Aeroclub

metal WW1 wheels from the stash.

The large wing decals were fine but I found the

white fuselage decals started to break up, would

recommend coating the sheet with Klear or varnish

before use. Otherwise a great kit and really

captures the look of the original!

Cheers, Paul

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A few more pointers as my build progresses (possibly 'sucking eggs' territory ;) )

1) There's nothing in the painting guide about the black walkway on the lower wing. The 60M box art shows one on the port wing, but I think it should only be on the starboard one. If you look, you'll find it moulded on the starboard wing only.

2) The 60M box art shows the exhaust running inboard of the cabane struts. It mostly doesn't.

3) There's no door for the rear cockpit (just noticed this, after finishing painting!)

Still a fun build though.

Cliff

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Hi Cliff, will need to check my references on some of these points as Moths vary in many minor details!

Certainly the exhaust is "threaded" between the two front cabane struts (the inverted vee), it goes behind the front strut and in front of the back strut if that makes sense?

Not sure if the wing walkways were

black on the early Moths, not many

photos show this.

Also not sure if there were doors

on the dh60M or if these were a later

feature.

Cheers, Paul

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