Hutch Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I don't know if this is in the right forum but I'm sure that a mod will move it if it isn't...... We have 'found' this print tucked away in the corner of our CCF hut and are having difficulties working out some the signatures. Looking closely at the print it appears that they are all genuine as the indents of the pen and the shininess of the pencils can be seen. The print is dated 1997 and is a limited print by an artist called Bill Streets who has also signed in the bottom left corner. I cannot find anything about this artist. The badge at the top is of the BoB Memorial Flight and I'm guessing that the three pencil sigs at the top are the pilots from around 1997. Apart from a few names that we can recognise we are stumped. Any help and suggestions would be welcomed (it belongs to the CCF at the school I teach at and I'm sorry, but it isn't for sale!!!) Thanks for all of your help. Hutch I have some close-up pictures if that helps... Hutch Edited January 15, 2015 by Hutch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP42 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Of the signatures I immediately recognise: The signature below the serial number is Lady Bader, the widow of Douglas Bader. Gordon Mitchell is the son of R J Mitchell, the designer of the Spitfire. Below the title is Johnnie Johnson, who I think was the top British ace in WW2, (though I'll stand corrected on that if necessary). Neville Duke (test pilot) to the left of him..... still looking.... All in all a very special print I'd say if only for the signatures! Edited January 15, 2015 by HP42 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can see Neville Duke has added his signature. Its at left of painting title next to Johnny Johnson. Also Hugh Verity( famed for clandestine Lysander ops fourth one down from Neville Duke.. Paul day at top centre was a BoB memorial flight pilot. At extreme bot. righ on the border is ray Finucane relative of Paddy Finucane maybe??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for this. Sorry to say but that is not Johnny Johnson's sig as I've got a couple of his from a talk in the 1990s and its not the same. We think the first name could be Charlie but someone out there might know better. Hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP42 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for this. Sorry to say but that is not Johnny Johnson's sig as I've got a couple of his from a talk in the 1990s and its not the same. We think the first name could be Charlie but someone out there might know better. Hutch The are actually two 'Johnnie' Johnsons out there. One of fighter pilot fame, the other was one of the dambuster crews and is still with us. I've got a copy of fighter pilot Johnnie Johnson's signature at my parent's house along with Leonard Cheshire so I'll have a look next time I'm there. My money is on it being fighter pilot 'JJ' but I could well be wrong... Either way, it's a very special picture, I hope the cadets will come to understand its significance and appreciate it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Dennis David below "Johnnie Johnson". Top right I believe is Dave Harrison, who I believe was OC Ops at Coningsby (and BBMF pilot) in the mid 1990s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Some of the others we believe we can read are; Harold Maguire George Bromley Joan Ansell Mary Wilkins (Mary Ellis of ATA fame) Bob Large (?) Bill Read (?) This has been quite an interesting find. Thanks for all of your help Hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Looking on iPhone so can't see signatures and going from the posts but could "Bill Read"? Be Bill Reid The Lancaster VC chap? I have prints with his so can do a check later If you get verification of those signatures that print is worth serious money to a collector 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I think you have something worth money too. Anyway I have a copy of Neville Duke from an old ebay sale,link below. Not mine,nothing to do with me. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191365879085?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT He was getting on a bit when this print of yours was signed. I knew him at Edgley,he was one of the test pilots there, and he was a Gent, a really nice man and a pleasure to talk to. He showed the Ex Empire Test Pilots School Jocks how to fly that Optica ! Edited January 15, 2015 by bzn20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Looking on iPhone so can't see signatures and going from the posts but could "Bill Read"? Be Bill Reid The Lancaster VC chap? I have prints with his so can do a check later If you get verification of those signatures that print is worth serious money to a collector Looks a bit like Bill Reid but doesn't look like his signature. It's similar, but spelt differently and a bit too different.Bob Large was a Tangmere Spitfire pilot before becoming an SD Lysander pilot. Edited January 16, 2015 by Vickers McFunbus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV571 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Peter 'Oleo' Ottewell was a Sergeant Pilot with 43 Sqn in early to mid-1940. He was badly burned during a sortie over France on June 7 1940 in Hurricane L1608 when his fuel tank was hit and exploded. Initially thought to be KIA he spent a year in hospital but didn't return to operations. He continued to serve in the RAF until retiring as a Group Captain in 1965. He received the George Medal for rescuing the crew of a crashed Beaufighter before it and an ammunition dump blew up! He died in 2003 and his obituary can be seen here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1421881/Group-Captain-Peter-Ottewill.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 We are so pleased with the responses. Keep them coming...! XV571 - many thanks for the 'Oleo' info, we couldn't work out the surname. Interesting guy! Thanks Vickers for the background on Bob Large. I also agree about the Bill Read sig and the spelling is definitely READ. Does anyone know where we might be able to get these confirmed as genuine? Hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'd try the RAF museum and/or Imperial War Museum including Duxford. Good places to start I would think. There might be some official documents online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Thanks Vickers for the background on Bob Large. I also agree about the Bill Read sig and the spelling is definitely READ. No worries. I recognised his name but not as a Spitfire pilot - on reflection, I suspect it was probably from reading Hugh Verity's book - there were fewer SD Lizzie pilots than Spitfire ones! Does anyone know where we might be able to get these confirmed as genuine? Tricky, other than the fact they look genuine. Most new "higher profile" ltd edition prints come with a CofA. I've searched for both Bill Streets and the print online, and the only reference I can find is on the At Andrew's Church, Tangmere wikipedia page (the church in the picture). That states that it was made into a Ltd Ed print in 2003, which can't be correct, as this is a Ltd Edition print and has been signed by several people who had passed away by then. Other than this picture, I've never seen or heard of Bill Streets in the aviation art world. He may have been a relatively local artist, or specialised in aviation subjects. Neville Duke, a prominent signatory, obviously had very strong post war links with Tangmere. Google finds a link which is now broken, but affords the following: "Website about a limited edition signed Spitfire print being sold to raise money for the restoration and maintenance of St. Andrews Church and the graves of the airmen buried in the churchyard there. - See more at: http://www.westsussex.info/history-of-sussex.shtml#sthash.CsjMpzPd.dpuf" Edited January 16, 2015 by Vickers McFunbus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Ok, here's you list, as published for the print... In rank(ish) order: The Duke of Richmond, Lenox and Gordon (immediately left of the edition number "Richmond") Lady Joan Bader (middle) Air Chief Marshal Sir Thomas Prickett (bottom right - sideways) - Stn Cdr RAF Tangmere 49-52. Died 2010 Air Marshal Sir Harold Maguire (left column, 3rd down) - famously landed the Spitfire on the OXO cricket pitch (now Millwall FC training ground) in the 50s during a fly past. Died 2001 AVM J Johnson (it is the fighter pilot Johnnie Johnson - I suggest, having seen it on my own prints, the main reason for the debate above is that as these gents age, their signatures often change a little too) Gp Capt F Carey (Right side, sideways below Large). Flt Cdr on 43 at Tangmere during BoB. Died 2004 Gp Capt D David (below Johnnie Johnson). Died 2000. Gp Capt P G Ottewill (left side, top). Died 2003. Gp Capt H B Verity (2nd column, bottom). Died 2001. Author of "We Landed by Moonlight" Wg Cdr P Barthropp (4th column, 4th down). Died 2008. Wg Cdr R Dutt (left column 2nd down) Wg Cdr W D Mitchell (5th column top) Wg Cdr J R C Young (left side, middle) Sqn Ldr N Duke (2nd column, top) Sqn Ldr W A A Read (4th column, below Richmond. A different Bill Read, as opposed to Flt Lt Bill Reid VC) Sqn Ldr P H V Wells (can't see him!) Flt Lt R Finucane (4th column bottom. Ray - Paddy's brother, a bomber pilot with 101 Sqn). Died 2009. Flt Lt R G Large (Right side, sideways) Flt Lt E A McCann (2nd column, 3rd down) Flt Lt B A O'Callaghan (left column, bottom) Section Officer F G Bird (left side, bottom) WO H F Bromley (2nd column, 2nd down) Cpl D C Kemp (5th column bottom) Cpl Joan C King (nee Ansell - below Johnson and David) ATA pilot Mary Wilkins (4th column, 3rd down) Dr Gorden Mitchell (middle) Mr Bill Streets (left column, top) BBMF Sqn Ldr Paul Day ("The Major") top centre Wg Cdr Dave Harrison top right Sqn Ldr Dave Thomas (of Vulcan fame too) top left Edited January 17, 2015 by Vickers McFunbus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilson Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The Johnnie Johnson one is genuine, (the Spitfire ace, not the dambuster) it matches one in a book of his that I have that would have been signed around the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The Johnnie Johnson one is genuine, (the Spitfire ace, not the dambuster) it matches one in a book of his that I have that would have been signed around the same time. Agreed. As I mention above, signatures can change with age, signing location etc! As a piece of art, I don't think the "value" would be very high at all, but quite a few of the signatures would now be reasonably valuable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ok, here's you list, as published for the print... In rank(ish) order: The Duke of Richmond, Lenox and Gordon (immediately left of the edition number "Richmond") Lady Joan Bader (middle) Air Chief Marshal Sir Thomas Prickett (bottom right - sideways) - Stn Cdr RAF Tangmere 49-52. Died 2010 Air Marshal Sir Harold Maguire (left column, 3rd down) - famously landed the Spitfire on the OXO cricket pitch (now Millwall FC training ground) in the 50s during a fly past. Died 2001 AVM J Johnson (it is the fighter pilot Johnnie Johnson - I suggest, having seen it on my own prints, the main reason for the debate above is that as these gents age, their signatures often change a little too) Gp Capt F Carey (Right side, sideways below Large). Flt Cdr on 43 at Tangmere during BoB. Died 2004 Gp Capt D David (below Johnnie Johnson). Died 2000. Gp Capt P G Ottewill (left side, top). Died 2003. Gp Capt H B Verity (2nd column, bottom). Died 2001. Author of "We Landed by Moonlight" Wg Cdr P Barthropp (4th column, 4th down). Died 2008. Wg Cdr R Dutt (left column 2nd down) Wg Cdr W D Mitchell (5th column top) Wg Cdr J R C Young (left side, middle) Sqn Ldr N Duke (2nd column, top) Sqn Ldr W A A Read (4th column, below Richmond. A different Bill Read, as opposed to Flt Lt Bill Reid VC) Sqn Ldr P H V Wells (can't see him!) Flt Lt R Finucane (4th column bottom. Ray - Paddy's brother, a bomber pilot with 101 Sqn). Died 2009. Flt Lt R G Large (Right side, sideways) Flt Lt E A McCann (2nd column, 3rd down) Flt Lt B A O'Callaghan (left column, bottom) Section Officer F G Bird (left side, bottom) WO H F Bromley (2nd column, 2nd down) Cpl D C Kemp (5th column bottom) Cpl Joan C King (nee Ansell - below Johnson and David) ATA pilot Mary Wilkins (4th column, 3rd down) Dr Gorden Mitchell (middle) Mr Bill Streets (left column, top) BBMF Sqn Ldr Paul Day ("The Major") top centre Wg Cdr Dave Harrison top right Sqn Ldr Dave Thomas (of Vulcan fame too) top left Wow Vickers..... Thank you so much for this. Can I ask where you found this list? I'll keep you informed as to the future of this print (I totally agree as I think the quality of the print is a little poor) as we now need to make decisions on where it goes. Does it go up somewhere prominent in the school or on a wall in a CCF 'porta-cabin'. Many thanks to everyone who has looked at and contributed. Hutch (and the members of the school's CCF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Keep it out of daylight! I know its supposed to be looked at but that will fade and will turn a bluey/ green where the red end of the Spectrum is slowly disappearing. My Dad has Adolf Galland/ Douglas Bader and Leonard Cheshire signed prints and they've not been in direct/strong sunlight but are faded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Keep it out of daylight and not in the portacabin! Out of strong light is even more important in this case as some of the signatures are in ink, which will fade over time (unlike pencil). As for the list Hutch, I found it on about page 3 or 4 of a google search! It was from someone who had listed another copy of the print on an online auction site (not ebay) some time ago, and it had a document stating all the signatories. There was obviously some of the edition published with a few more signatures (mainly Fg Off up to an Air Cdre, and a few civilians too), but I filtered it to include those on the "signed all prints". If I can find it I'll send a link. Obviously the only one listed as having signed them all that isn't on yours is Sqn Ldr Wells! A mystery! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Echo, cho, ho, o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Echo, cho, ho, o Lol, yeah. My point was more about the increased likelihood of damp air in the portacabin. I thought I'd re-emphasise the pen bit as I wasn't sure if you were referring to the print fading or the sigs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I wasn't having a go,honest. I just liked typing the Echo effect! You're right about the penned sigs too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hutch, just wanted to say that its very good of you share that with us.. I like it. Very nice ..Hope you have it insured... ENJOY it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallee59 Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Hi, this thread led me to the site as I have the print as well. It came with a key sheet for the signatures and I bought it from Tangmere, where it was originally signed. I can scan the sheet if it is still of interest and I have added a few more signatures to my copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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