Re-Wheeling Hornby A4 With Ultrascale Wheels

[robvulcan]

Hi all. Well its been a very very long time since I updated this on going project.

Last year was very busy for me and this one will likely be the same but I have been making progress on these since and I have failed to update. I did get the final gloss finish on Sir Nigel Gresley, Bittern and Mallard. I am yet to replace the motion with the finer variety on the first 2.

I had come across some very Cheap Ultrascale wheels on ebay I picked them up for 20 quid including postage !. Lucky me. I was almost frightend to use them and that was a year ago. These wheel sets usually take 6 months to wait for to be made for you and cost over a £100 quid !... But it will make your A4 Look like a real A4 so ... The things we do for detail eh !

I have done much reading on wheels, motion, etc etc.

I have also been asking many questions much to the annoyance of some on rmweb I bet ! , But the advice on here has been brilliant and This past few weeks I have thrown myself in at the deep end. As there are still bits that seem to be a dark art.

I have always found info on Kit Built locos hard to come by. It almost feels as If you have to be invited to a small clandestine religion to learn the tricks.. Well I hope to expose it as I learn in the hope others will have ago. As the kit industry for railway models seems to be on the decline and that’s sad. Much as RTR is nice making models or customising them is where the fun lies.

This is a custom job but I hope to make a model soon.

I have done something that might be considered a sin to many. But I have found it is indeed possible with care to resuse the Hornby fittings from the motion on Ultrascale, Scalelink and Alan Gibson wheels. At least on my ones. I tried this first on a Scalelink, Then an Alan Gibson, Then an Ultrascale. I have been successful and managed to make a working chassis using the Hornby A4 chassis, Hornby 80s Nickel plated motion, and the Ultrascales. This has given me a chassis that will look right for Mallard and now all I have to do is paint the wheels red and add the balance weights.

I want to share with people on here how I have done this as I have found the information on how to do this hard to come by.

I want to do my bit to try to share my first attempts with you all in the hope others have ago. I know many already know how to do this but there are likely many more like myself that wish to try. So hope this helps.

here goes...

I had started with the easy part, Fitting the Tender, Pony wheels etc,. These gripped well enough to not need any loctite and were a breese to assemble by hand and the back to backs checked with and Alan Gibson back to back gauge.

Before you put together your drivers you need to shim them and replace the Hornby washers with these, They are from Alan Gibson and come in a pack with various thicknesses, The Hornby ones do not seem to want to fit onto the axle so I replaced them as you can see in the photos.

As you can see I had fitted the Ultrascale pins but then soon after this I ditched them, I had only fixed one side of the wheels with loctite 603 (thankfully)

So I could remove the wheels. The plastic Ultrascale uses is surprisingly tough and I had no problems with wear or loose wheels or any issues with them going out of true when refitting but I don't recommend messing unless absolutley nessercery. The loctite 603 is nasty stuff if certainly grips VERY strong. If you get it wrong forget it so be careful.

I will also note the Hornby Gear that I refitted to the Ultrascale axle needed to be very slightly drilled wider to fit the axle. like the Hornby washers it would not refit.

When I say slightly drilled out I mean very slightly using only my fingers to twist the drill bit.

Here are the Ultrascales as you can see I have Drilled them out by hand using a pin vice and taking my time,. The plastic as I mention is very very strong and it took ages to drill out these holes using the molded ones as a guide. But as you can see the 80s Hornby part fits and so will the modern versions.

I had to file off the rivets holding the cross frame attachment from the modern railroad motion off a spare chassis I have and then drill the old motion parts out to fit to the cross frame. This again was done by hand with a file in a pin vice. I just put a comedy show on and sweated it out for a few hours and got through threre eventually. The old metal rods were made of much better quality material than these new ones and are very robust unlike the kitchen foil ones of today.

Moving on you can see I am now using my modified Railroad Peregrine to help with the build of the chassis for Mallard.

Here you can see the 80s Hornby Nickel matches the Ultrascale wheels a treat,. These motion sets might be basic but they are not that bad and they are strong. also the solid conection rod is one piece making the wheels move more realistically that the modern type. I like the robustness here and like with all modelling compromises are always to be made. I am having to delete the little lubricator arm thing (I am not sure what it is ) From the right wheel. But I can live with that. This is my first attempt at a loco chassis conversion and re-wheel.

I was going to use these Rivets from Alan Gibson but Instead used Alan Gibson crank pins and bolts.

You can see the holes that are drilled out ready to attach to the cross frame.

Here you can see the Hornby boss which Needs little mods to it to fit, with the shim washer in place on the axles as seen previously the boss at the back will not collide with the chassis or pickups. The only mod is the file down the oval ear on one side to allow you to set the lead correctly. There will be many times you will have to assemble and de assemble the chassis and motion to make sure this works freely with friction fit only before loctite 603 goes anywhere near... But its worth doing to get it right even if it does take you days.

The other advantage to this old motion being used is the return crank arm moves elaborately and realistically where as the later finer type hardly moves at all. I prefer this old type for that reason.

Here you can see the Gibson Crank pins holding the motion together these were tigtened and Loctite 603 applied when in situ on the loco to make sure they set in the right place.

And here is my 1st atempt at a chassis mod complete and running sweetly. I quartered it by eye and now I just need to add the red paint and the balance weights but right now I put the body on for a few photos and enjoy finally having an LNER A4 with nice shiney thick rimmed wheels. What a lovely site. I do like the blackend ones but I adore the highly polished look.

If only Hornby made the wheels like this in the first place it would have been perfect. Here is a comparison with the standard wheels which I must admit look fine for most locos.

If they had red to the edge which a few did.

Thanks for reading. I hope its not been boring and might be of help to others out there. I will be doing more conversions now and love ultrascale wheels. I also hope to do my first chassis soon.

Happy New Year everyone. This is my first modelling post on here this year.

For anyone curious about Ultrascale they are a great company and the website is well worth your time reading through

http://www.ultrascale.com/

Cheers Rob

Edited January 14, 2015 by robvulcan

[robvulcan]

Hey fellow BM'ers I am still plodding on with this project and have been making sure the wheels roll as slick as possible. There was one slightly tight area which I first worried was quartering the. Thought it might be the eccentric but in the end I tracked it to a slightly tight hole on the first driver crank pin hole. This was widened a little more and now she rolls like greesed pig spit.

I have fitted the ultrascale balance blocks to the wheels I could have used the compass cutter but these are very handy and priced so reasonably it hardly seems worth the bother.





Once the super glue gel had dried I micromeshed them flush to the wheel rims to both tidy them up key them for primer and make sure there would be no collision with the connection rods. The test chassis was re assembled to test it was still rolling and now I'm moving on to the paint stage.

I used tamiya tape to back the wheels and blue tak to mask the rims and running surface. These can then be misted over with Humbrol 64 Matt grey direct from the rattle can this will give me a good key for the red after I remove the slight over spray from the metal rims.
Hopefully this will give some permanence to the red (now I know why BR subjects are more popular ! )








Same treatment for the front pony wheels but I am leaving them in place. I also polished up the front bogie spikes down to the brass/nickel to look like mallards ones, it's not steel but it looks pretty goodas a compromise however I may burnish over some kitchen foil with microscale foil glue as one would approach a Bare Metal finish on a fighter jet. I may try and emulate the quarter polished buffers using this method too.







So with that onto the primer I have opted to use light grey as it will be easier to cover than white or black. Red being an awkward colour to paint.
It took longer to mask than spray, As always but well worth the effort.
The Humbrol sprays I use always they give such a great fine and robust finish these days and level out as they dry.

I have become a fan of these decoart acrylics from Americana available from hobbycraft. They give a great finish brush beautifully and have a very dense pigmentation and level off with little to no brush marks.
I will add some Windsor and Newton flow improver to these to further enhance the levelling and streak free effects of the paint. It also makes them brush like enamels. Combined with the Humbrol grey base coat they will stick to this like muck to a blanket an give a tough finished further protected by a few coats of Klear or similar.

The range of Americana paints are vast and useful, these two reds / crimsons I selected by eye as looking good for LNER Reds not being to strict on the shade as I find hornbys too purple and dark but look good and seem to have an oily worn look but as I am modelling Mallard as I have seen her in the 80s and 90s on many occasions she has quite bright wheels more toward red than purple. I like the look of the Alzarin Crimson and will be using this.

I do like the Humbrol 20 but find this is two dark on this occasion but I may be using it on future A4s.

The Redbird colour is also a good shade, A bit of variance don't hurt and if the other is looking too light I can over coat it with the darker one.

Right then time to get the Hairy stick out !

One coat and it's already covering well. I think light grey is my fave primer for red

A little more progress as I work on the wheels another coat and a bit of Klear to seal and shine them and she will nearly finally be done hopefully.

Then I will have to make a video of her running.

Shame I have not got a layout at the moment or a big loop to stretch her legs. If I can find anywhere local to go to it could be nice to give her a good run.

Right then the wheels have had 2 coats of the Alizarin Crimson and 2 generous coats of old slyly Johnsons Klear.

Now the exciting part .. The Finish is in site !

The tender wheels are getting the same treatment as the others, Humbrol 64 base coat from spray can, 2 coats of Americana Alizarin Crimson and 2 coats of Klear.






Cheers Rob

[robvulcan]

Well I'm really happy with how this has turned out, nearly there just the tender wheels to do then the final tuning and then a video and some photos.

Hope you like her and a glimpse of my bittern since she's had her gloss coat.



#

Well she is nearly finished, The hard parts are over and it has been a big learning curve, Challenge and fun too. Also a bit difficult at times.

I have fitted the wheels to the tender and painted the silver axle boxes with Dark Star Paints bright steel then over coated with tarnished steel then a coat of Klear.

I buffed the buffers with 12000 micromesh.

I hope you like here its been a very long time getting Mallard to this stage from her Railroad/legend origins. I feel its an Improvement even though I love the original spec Hornby give us.

Comments both good and bad welcome.

She has also been chipped with a Digitrains sound and a sugar cube in the loco.

Cheers Rob

[Knikki]

Never really got into trains as a kid but find these steam trains interesting.

The conversion has really made them stand out and really look the part, nice bit of micro engineering

[robvulcan]

Never really got into trains as a kid but find these steam trains interesting.

The conversion has really made them stand out and really look the part, nice bit of micro engineering

Cheers glad you like it. A4 locos do seem to manage to charm many people. This is my test run but I hope to take things further soon and maybe build a full Comet chassis kit for my Manor loco and another A4, I am really getting into loco kit building now.

I need to invest in a good solder station though as I'm also going to be doing 0 gauge.

I will post this amongst my on going thread soon but wanted this first step for me in re wheeling up separate to try and help others out there as I found trying to get info on the subject tricky.

Cheers Rob

[canberra kid]

Hi Rob

This took some finding,but thanks to a tip of from my mate Paul I now have, here it is and I'm glad I did! Top work Rob, very impressive work and well worth the effort, I don't know a lot about steam loco's but I can see the improvements to the look of the model, well done Rob!

John

[robvulcan]

Cheers john glad you found it. There are some dark hard to find places on BM.

It's been fun and worth it in my eye I would like to take this further and make up some loco chassis from comet models next and whole loco kits.

I'll rewheel a few more as well in time. It's taught me much and I'm just happy it's come out ok and works well.

Cheers Rob

[lordairgtar]

We had one of the A4 locomotives in our National Railway Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin. It was originally The Golden Shuttle but renamed the Dwight D. Eisenhour. Are you modeling that one as well? I understand it has since returned to England. i love the look of the A4 and it would fit right in with the US streamlined locos of that era.

Edited March 1, 2015 by lordairgtar

[robvulcan]

We had one of the A4 locomotives in our National Railway Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin. It was originally The Golden Shuttle but renamed the Dwight D. Eisenhour. Are you modeling that one as well? I understand it has since returned to England. i love the look of the A4 and it would fit right in with the US streamlined locos of that era.

Hi there yes at somepoint in the future I do intend to make up a Dwight D Eisenhower and Dominion of Canada. I believe they are on their way back to you soon if they are not there already.

I went to see them all at York it was a fantastic day only with the exception of over aggressive security personnel at the end of the day forming a yellow jacket barrier at the end to stop photos then marching towards us like they where riot control.

The locos where a joy to though.

I have a Hornby wildswan that could make into dwight except it's got a single chinmey. I may convert it at some point as its also got the non corridor tender.

I do like Amerrican locoa they have a lot of charachter I love the light logging climax loco in particular some interesting engineering going on there. I also love that streamlines crusader loco you have over there the silver and blue streamliner.

All the best Rob

[lordairgtar]

Thanks. Climaxes and Shays are unique to short line railways in mining and logging areas. Not very fast but a lot of torque and able to negotiate tight radius curves found in mountainous regions. My favorite streamlined steam train is the Hiawatha that served the Milwaukee Road passenger service. It was the fastest train in the US at that time. The look of it was designed by Brook Stevens who also designed many different things in industry and the Excalibur car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiawatha_%28train%29

Edited March 3, 2015 by lordairgtar

[robvulcan]

Thanks. Climaxes and Shays are unique to short line railways in mining and logging areas. Not very fast but a lot of torque and able to negotiate tight radius curves found in mountainous regions. My favorite streamlined steam train is the Hiawatha that served the Milwaukee Road passenger service. It was the fastest train in the US at that time. The look of it was designed by Brook Stevens who also designed many different things in industry and the Excalibur car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiawatha_(train)

Yes some very purposeful little machines. The streamliner Looks nice im not well up in non UK stuff but it all looks interesting and growing on me more now. British stuff is very pretty tidy and elegant American stuff does not hide much it's all on show things like the big boy look downright scary and menacing.

I can't imagine how big they are but I understand they are like cathdrals on wheels

Cheers Rob

[charlie_c67]

I always think more along the lines of Garratts on steroids when it comes to Big Boy...

[robvulcan]

I always think more along the lines of Garratts on steroids when it comes to Big Boy...

Yes thats a very good way to look at it. I must say I would like to get a big boy one day. I had the pleasure of working on one for someone once installing sound for them It sure was a beast to handle and a joy to watch going around the track.

Sure is a polar opposite to the A4 here.

I really must do some decent outdoor photos now the sun is back with us and a video of her running soon.

Cheers Rob

[heloman1]

Great job there Rob, they look magnificent.

Colin

[robvulcan]

Cheers Colin its been a long road. Got to sort the other 2 out yet.. Cheers Rob