Beardie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hi all, this is a question for those with expertise particularly on the manufacture of the Hurricane but I am sure it probably applies to most WWII british built aircraft as well. The question is...... Just how standardised was construction, in particularly painting/or not of internal structure of the craft? I am currently working on putting together a 1/24 scale Airfix Hurri and searching for references for internal detail there seems to be a lot of variance. Particularly internal framework and equipment being bare Duralumin in one pic and cockpit green in another. Airfix are a wee bit vague in the instructions and so it is a problem trying to decide what is correct. Would gun bays/ammo feeds and empty shell chutes normally be in green or bare metal? Would wheel wells be bare ally or green? All help much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Production would be completely standardised at any one factory, and in most ways across all factories, but this would differ with time. An early aircraft would be painted Aluminium (not bare duralumin) or any other metal), later ones would be Grey Green. I can't help with the details as to just when it changed but I'm sure it has been discussed already so advise a search. Off the top of my head I'd say the wheel wells would still be Aluminium but the cockpit framing may have gone to Grey Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_m Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm not an expert, but I though everything received a finish of some form. I guess a primer was used to inhibit the metal reaction with the environment, and a finish on top of that to protect the primer. I've read Edgar's posts on Spitfires receiving grey primer with aluminium paint or dope (forget which) top coat for internal parts. Likely what you are seeing is aluminium paint rather than bare aluminium alloy. But I'm not an expert. If you see one area in both colours in photos, then I would guess it would be fine to do it in either, unless there was a time or factory pattern, and you cared that much about this detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well as far as I know Duralumin was susceptible to corrosion and so was plated with high purity aluminium in a process called ALCLAD which is highly resistant to corrosion (Aluminium reacts strongly with oxygen creating a very tough, thin layer of Aluminium oxide) But this was an American process so I don't know if it was in use in UK aero manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The prototype Spitfire was built from anodised aluminium, which probably had something to do with the greenish colour when it first flew. When Spec 16/36 was issued 28-7-36, out of 33 changes/improvements decreed by the Air Ministry, one said that the fuselage and wings could be covered with Alclad. Wheel wells and gunbays were painted silver, and probably remained so on the Hurricane, since the Typhoon was the same, but the Tempest went over to green. The Spitfire might have gone to green around 1943 (MH434's fuselage interior is green, as were the Mk.22's wheel wells.) As for standardisation, drawings were made, printed and modified by the drawing office, and large parts were built on jigs, making them interchangeable. Westland's (now retired) historian worked in their drawing office during the war (and after,) and he told me how Westland's and Supermarine's removable panels were always interchangeable, but Castle Bromwich's were "made to measure," so unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cox Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hi Beardie, Although the following 4 films from British Pathé are low resolution on the links provided they may be of interest to you, since they show Hurricane aircraft being manufactured. Hurricanes Reel 1, 1942 Hurricanes Reel 2, 1942 Hurricanes Reel 3, 1942 Hurricanes Reel 4, 1942 Cheers, Daniel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks all, So Edgar would you reckon that wheel wells and gun bays on a BoB Hurricane mk.1 would most likely be bare alclad/or at least aluminium coloured? I have painted them in the interior green but was not convinced that that would be correct. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks all, So Edgar would you reckon that wheel wells and gun bays on a BoB Hurricane mk.1 would most likely be bare alclad/or at least aluminium coloured? I have painted them in the interior green but was not convinced that that would be correct. Marty Hi Marty on a BoB era Hurricane ALL the internal metal would be painted Aluminium. cockpit framework, seat, engine bays, gun bays, wheel wells, landing lights.... the sidewalls are interior grey-green. please read this for more information.and photos of unrestored Hurricanes. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-hurricane-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/page-3#entry1682406 Check the links as well. When you have time, read the whole thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-hurricane-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/ there are a load of links throughout. one final point, your thread title is very vague. "Question for WWII aircraft manufacturing experts' I only glanced at it as it was so vague. good questions here get good answers. the site search is not great, use google, add Britmodeller into your search term. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cox Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hi again Beardie, According to the Odhams Press Limited 1944 publication, The Secrets of Other People's Jobs. The following excerpts from Behind The Scenes In Our Aircraft Industry by F. T. Meacock A.F.R.Ae.S., M.J.Inst.E. might generally paint you a better picture. Mass Production ................ A very important addition to the actual manufacture of the detail parts themselves is their protection against the effects of moisture or corrosion. There are two main departments which deal with this. First is a stove-enamelling shop in which some of the parts are sprayed with enamel and then baked in ovens to give a hard and lasting protection. The second department deals with parts unprotected by enamel, but by some form of plating or deposition of a corrosion-resisting metal over their surface. This is done by a number of different processes, the most familiar being the "anodic treatment" given to duralumin parts resulting in a glossy light grey finish. This protection is produced by immersion in a tank containing a solution of chromic acid through which an electric current is passed. This results in the formation of a thin protective plating over the surface of the various parts concerned. ................ Fabric covering and doping So far no mention has been made of the use of fabric as a covering for the wings or fuselage. As already stated, thin sheet metal is commonly employed for this purpose nowadays, but in some aeroplanes fabric is used quite extensively. In most aeroplanes however, it is used for the covering of such parts as the rudder and elevators of the tail unit. Thus before leaving the subject of main component assemblies it is advisable to visit the department in which this fabric covering is put on to the structure. Here, as would be expected, the work is carried out almost entirely by women, numbers of whom may be seen busily cutting the fabric to shape and skilfully sewing it on to the structure. Of itself, the fabric covering is insufficient and must be made waterproof and "drum-tight" by the application of a special paint known as dope. This is done in the dope shop, where the covered components are sprayed with dope by means of spray guns. The atmosphere of this shop is noticeable for its strong smell of "teardrops" from the amyl acetate in the dope. Unless a mask is worn, this atmosphere would soon become very uncomfortable, though extractor fans are provided to change the air-frequency (Fig, 3). It must not be though that only fabric-covered components are treated with a dope finish. Light alloy skin-covered components will also be given such a finish, not because they need waterproofing or tightening, but to add the well-known camouflage finish. This work is also carried out in the dope shops. ................ MONSTER SHAPES IN THE DOPE SHOP FIG. 3. A pungent odour and the ceaseless hissing of sprayers greets visitors to the dope shop, which is carefully shut away from the rest of the works to prevent fire. Above is seen spraying of the centre plane section. Spraying serves a two-fold purpose––camouflage and preservation. Cheers, Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks very much to all for your replies to my query, that'll teach me to follow Airfix's colour call-outs Fortunately I am at a point where I can ammend the errors before carrying on with the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 So Edgar would you reckon that wheel wells and gun bays on a BoB Hurricane mk.1 would most likely be bare alclad/or at least aluminium coloured?Painted silver; leaving anything unpainted, in our climate, is not recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks, I will break out the ally paint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossack52 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i'm now totally confused;picked up the airfix spit mk1 and hurricane from aldi,knocked these together over xmas.have painted uppersurfaces,but am held back noe as the instructions show the complete undercarriage and wheel wells in the appropriate underside colour!is this correct or should they be silver or grey green?!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i'm now totally confused;picked up the airfix spit mk1 and hurricane from aldi,knocked these together over xmas.have painted uppersurfaces,but am held back noe as the instructions show the complete undercarriage and wheel wells in the appropriate underside colour!is this correct or should they be silver or grey green?!!! the Aldi kits are the starter kits, with simplified painting instructions, using only the 4 colours provided. Hurricane is as above, aluminium painted wheel wells. The main visible Spitfire wells would be the underside colour AFAIK. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i'm now totally confused;picked up the airfix spit mk1 and hurricane from aldi,knocked these together over xmas.have painted uppersurfaces,but am held back noe as the instructions show the complete undercarriage and wheel wells in the appropriate underside colour!is this correct or should they be silver or grey green?!!!It rather needs a little lateral thinking, since Supermarine drawings advocated interior areas (except the cockpit and engine bearers) should be silver, but it's a rather moot point if you consider the wheel wells to be interior areas, or not. Oleo legs and door interiors started off silver, but anything could (and did) happen in the first two years of war. Given that the Defiant, Hurricane and Typhoon wells were all silver, I tend to go with the idea that the Spitfire would have been the same (cue photo of Spitfire with black & white wells,) but the block and noose are now obsolete, so it's really your choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossack52 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 i realise now i should have bought a cromwell instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 On 07/01/2015 at 20:52, Edgar said: It rather needs a little lateral thinking, since Supermarine drawings advocated interior areas (except the cockpit and engine bearers) should be silver, but it's a rather moot point if you consider the wheel wells to be interior areas, or not. Oleo legs and door interiors started off silver, but anything could (and did) happen in the first two years of war. Given that the Defiant, Hurricane and Typhoon wells were all silver, I tend to go with the idea that the Spitfire would have been the same (cue photo of Spitfire with black & white wells,) but the block and noose are now obsolete, so it's really your choice. difficult to find photos showing the underside and wheel well, and they are B/W. There is a pres vist to 602 sq at Drem in winter 39/40, with a series of clear pics this is interesting and I've seen more shots from this series bigger, note the leg portion has a light edge, so is catching the light, but the wheel part is dark, Other black winged Spitfires show blacklegs/wheel hubs  Engine overhaul  c1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Engine overhaul  c1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Seafire, but in colour, On 08/01/2015 at 00:03, cossack52 said: i realise now i should have bought a cromwell instead! what colour do Airfix recommend for the SCC 15 Olive Drab then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossack52 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 depends whether its on a hurricane or spitfire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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