1/72 Blackbird Lincoln Conversion - Masks off!

[modelglue]

Nice job on the addition of the resin, and I have to congratulate Glenn on the production value of the conversion. It is nice to read your thread, with the explanation on price coupled with the actual build there is a real synergy of consumer and producer. Although I am not in a position to get into the aftermarket purchasing I am glad for it.

[stevehnz]

Watching this thread has become my must do just now, its also elevated this conversion set into the NEED category , I'll just have to hope that Glenn still has some in a month or three.

[occa]

I'll see what we can do about getting the larger H2S radome done too

What about a Lancastrian conversion set?

It's highly unlikely that Airfix will release it.

Also it is not that extensive ...

Cheers

[AnonymousLL45]

The Lancastrian and Manchester will be the next ones as Alan will hopefully be starting these soon, but I know he is moving house shortly, so please bear with us on that count. I'm really happy with Alans patterns and want to work with him a lot more in the longer term.

So yes, the Lancastrian and Manchester will be out as soon as. I'll keep people posted on progress. And I feel we have some good releases planned through out this year and beyond. As I've said before taking a gamble of £1000+ on something you hope it works out. I'm not finding fault with modellers but you do often get the old request for things that won't sell but always get the "I'll buy one". I'm always open to ideas for conversions and decals but all I ask is that I have to consider if they'll sell. And how soon will I see a return, that return goes along to the next project and so on.

I've had modellers say thats a tidy £48 profit, I can assure you it's not.

And I always like good sensible feedback too. There are a few gaps out there and hopefully Blackbird Models can fill them, and I shall always keep prices sensible. Hence our decals usually being £5.00 or £10.00

thanks

Glenn

[taggart]

Been watching this tread with interest , it's a great build so far .

Also interesting the way the resin conversions come about , not too sure you should be letting the punters know the mark up from trade to retail though Certainly wouldn't happen in my game , there's a lot of difference between cost price , trade price and retail price !

[woody37]

Thanks for the responses Glenn.

One thing I will say about the resin is that the quality is excellent. I was expecting the build to be a greater challenge than it has been so far (now have the wings together and a first coat of primer to see what needs tidying up) and it's been fairly straight forwards with excellent fit.

We are dealing with a niche market here, so I guess we can expect the price to be more, we simply can't compare these with a main stream Lancaster kit for obvious reasons. If we are prepared to spend the money and Blackbird models are prepared to listen and invest in future wants that have a viable market, then surely we are all winners here?

My personal opinion is that whilst this kit isn't cheap, I've spent lots in 2014 on kits that won't even get built in 2015, in some respects a waste of money that could of been better spent from a cashflow perspective . The fact that I'm building this and enjoying it means I'm getting value from the investment.

Glenn, if you can move some Lincoln decals (ideally with the main stencils) up the priority queue, I'll be a happy man

Cheers

[woody37]

Anyway, back on track!

Sorry about the poor pictures, but the light is limited!

Wings dry fitted in place. The inner engines are pointing slightly upwards but will be level once glued in. Not bad considering all engines are sitting there under their own fit.

The fuselage looks better once the fuselage warpage is pulled straight with masking tape

There is a slight angle due to having a plug put in, but this will be softened once the fuselage is glued together and I can attack the surface with a course sanding stick

[AnonymousLL45]

Been watching this tread with interest , it's a great build so far .

Also interesting the way the resin conversions come about , not too sure you should be letting the punters know the mark up from trade to retail though Certainly wouldn't happen in my game , there's a lot of difference between cost price , trade price and retail price !

well I understand what you say, but its know throughout the hobby trade side that 40% is around the norm. But I am happy to have that openess so modellers have an understanding from our side of the fence so to speak. And I speak as a modeller too in that I look at a product and think would I pay £XX for said subject. I also feel that more modellers understanding things from the manufacturers side might help when you see some negative comments on various threads about a kit, conversion etc. Just a little understanding of what is involved helps everyone in our hobby, or thats my view.

I know money is not something we throw about and often people look twice before buying but like has been said these are labour intensive items and also production costs are more than an injection moulded kit running 100,00 copies off. Boy would I love to get into some side of the injection moulding, there are a few subjects I'd love to cast before the modeller, and fill a few gaps.

Also its markets too. If I produce something that sells well to RAF modellers it has a niche side, if I can sell to markets in USA, japan, Europe, South America, Australia etc it brings a bigger return, and allows more to go back into pot for future stuff.

I'm quite happy to be open about the production side as I hope is gives modellers a better insight,

Glenn

[John Aero]

Sorry to put in a note of discord into an interesting build but two things might help. The dihedral is not the same as a Lancaster wing and the rear fuselage profile is also much straighter on the top from the mid fuselage to the rear turret.

John

[woody37]

Sorry to put in a note of discord into an interesting build but two things might help. The dihedral is not the same as a Lancaster wing and the rear fuselage profile is also much straighter on the top from the mid fuselage to the rear turret.

John

It will appear straighter when I've got the fuselage together in that the 'sudden' taper on top will be smoothed out.

Judging by the dihedral of the assembled wings, the tip point is comparable to side profile drawings, so it doesn't look too far out

Cheers

[taggart]

Thanks for the reply Glenn ,must be difficult to estimate the demand for a certain conversion , don't want to hijack the build thread here but one more question for you .

How do you think the development of 3D printing will affect the resin after market business ? The quality is not there now but sooner or later it will be .

[woody37]

Going back to John Aero's comment earlier about the straightness of the spine, sanding the 'hump didn't leave it looking right so I compared the fuselage against profile drawings. The cuts were all done squarely (on panel lines), so this indicates one of three things - 1. The Airfix kit is wrong at the rear or 2. The profile between the Lincoln and Lancaster differs, or 3. I cocked up somewhere and can't figure out where!!!!

So, I cut the rear fuselage behind the resin and built the inside up with plasticard and repositioned the rear end in line with the profile drawing. When everything is dry, I'll fill the gap with car filler.

I'll do further investigations tomorrow including checking another Lanc I have gainst relevant drawings to see if that reveals anything.

[Learstang]

Neil, not to muddy the waters, but there may possibly be a "4."; the profile drawing is wrong. This may be a drawing or drawings that you trust, but I know I've seen drawings of the Il-2 from Russian/Soviet sources that were wrong. My last resort, and sometimes my first, is to go by photographs. Do photographs shed any light on this issue?

Regards,

Jason

[marty_hopkirk]

Glenn, I'm certainly not telling you how to run your business. If anyone told me how to write my books (other than my editor/publisher, blessings be upon them!), I'd be likely to tell them to b****r off, I know what I'm doing! Your pricing model is your business, but as a modeller of somewhat modest means, I just wish it were a bit cheaper, or I'd buy it in a heartbeat (of course we modellers, being the cheap lot we are, wish everything were free, and just growing from the tree outside). Just my opinion and my circumstances. I do wish you the best of luck, as it does look a lovely conversion indeed! I look forward to your Manchester conversion, also. I hope you do conversions for some of the more esoteric Lancasters, such as the Canadian MR's, especially the one with the extended nose (although that was technically an AR, I believe).Best Regards,Jason

This is a terriblly naive view and I for one don't see what you are driving at personally. In my opinion Glenn has been accomodating and really patient with you and explained his rationale and limitations at this end of the modelling business.

I'm too an author (an analogy I don't fully follow) and you will know for business reasons one is asked to make changes to your copy for business reason your rationale is increasingly perplexing to follow.

As for me my father was streamed as a teenager to serve on incoming V bomber squadrons, but because of late delivery of Valiant served for a short period on a Lincoln squadron - in fact my car battery charger that I inherited from him, he scavenged from a Lincoln - so this was a no brainer.

My book Butterfly Winter is out later this and is a 12 to 14 year view of serving on V bomber squadrons in the 60s and '70s and to say you'd say bugger off to any changes to copy as some of the changes that have been suggested to me have often been for the better.

I wish Glenn all the best with this venture and from this work in progress it looks alike a quality conversion and build

Mary...

Edited January 2, 2015 by marty_hopkirk

[Learstang]

This is a terriblly naive view and I for one don't see what you are driving at personally. In my opinion Glenn has been accomodating and really patient with you and explained his rationale and limitations at this end of the modelling business.

I'm too an author (an analogy I don't fully follow) and you will know for business reasons one is asked to make changes to your copy for business reason your rationale is increasingly perplexing to follow.

As for me my father was streamed as a teenager to serve on incoming V bomber squadrons, but because of late delivery of Valiant served for a short period on a Lincoln squadron - in fact my car battery charger that I inherited from him, he scavenged from a Lincoln - so this was a no brainer.

My book Butterfly Winter is out later this and is a 12 to 14 year view of serving on V bomber squadrons in the 60s and '70s and to say you'd say bugger off to any changes to copy as some of the changes that have been suggested to me have often been for the better.

I wish Glenn all the best with this venture and from this work in progress it looks alike a quality conversion and build

Mary...

Just what on Earth are you on about, Marty???

Edited January 2, 2015 by Learstang

[marty_hopkirk]

Just what on Earth are you on about, Mary (I believe you meant to write "Marty")? I think you need to go back on the medication. Now.

Hmm... contructive and eloquent?

Lets get this back on topic, my father always said it was a cow of an aeroplane to work on and was criminally underpowered particulary on the 'spy' missions they were undertook. My father told they used to return with huge lumps missing from the airframe. This is the appeal of this conversion to me. Now to the more difficult part finding the machines my father worked on - he was very coy about that before his death.

Marty...

[sprue]

The resin is obviously top class and having in a previous life built resin warships I would say £40-£50 isn't bad.

I look forward to a Manchester, that would be a real treat..can't wait!

Mike

[heloman1]

Just found this build Niel, it's looking very interesting. Glad you were able to fix tghe fus, problem before it was too late. I'll follow with interest.

Colin

[woody37]

Thanks Colin. I've been checking all the variables this morning and found the following:

The fuselage plug is parallel and a triple check of the cuts indicate errors less than 1mm

The Airfix fuselage against the war paint 1/72 profile is out by a few mm but even worse at the front end. I've taken some pictures but the pc has died this morning so going to be stuck until sorted. As the error at the rear is in the region of 2mm, I suspect the total error is a cumulative effect of cut tolerance being amplified across the length and the air fix errors.

Something for people to think about when doing this buil is to do the rear fuselage cut for the resin plug at a slight angle to compensate. I reckon about 1.5mm or perhaps add some long spars as a guide inside. Not the end of the world, the razor saw and car filler will come to the rescue.

Thanks for your observations John Aero

Guys, there's somewhat of an unhealthy thread drift developing so please take the discussion not related to the build in to another thread to avoid this one going sour, cheers

[occa]

Going back to John Aero's comment earlier about the straightness of the spine, sanding the 'hump didn't leave it looking right so I compared the fuselage against profile drawings. The cuts were all done squarely (on panel lines), so this indicates one of three things - 1. The Airfix kit is wrong at the rear or 2. The profile between the Lincoln and Lancaster differs, or 3. I cocked up somewhere and can't figure out where!!!!

So, I cut the rear fuselage behind the resin and built the inside up with plasticard and repositioned the rear end in line with the profile drawing. When everything is dry, I'll fill the gap with car filler.

I'll do further investigations tomorrow including checking another Lanc I have gainst relevant drawings to see if that reveals anything.

So my impression that something was off was justified.

You'll make the best out of it I am certain anyways.

[tomprobert]

Great progress so far Neil... the only thing that crossed my mind was that I thought Lincolns had four engines...

[woody37]

Great progress so far Neil... the only thing that crossed my mind was that I thought Lincolns had four engines...

Mod cutbacks resulted in some interesting developments lol

[woody37]

So my impression that something was off was justified.

You'll make the best out of it I am certain anyways.

Certainly was mate. What was throwing it for me was that everything lined up, all lines were as they should be. Going to be without the PCs until next week so no pictures until then I'm afraid

[Col.]

Sorry to hear about your issues with the Airfix kit and your PC Neil. Every faith in your ability to fix the kit issues and until such time as the naughty PC is sorted we can use the power of our imaginations. Keep up that excellent work fella

[Mutley]

Loving this build, and nice to read a Manchester and Lancastrian are in the future works, a possible Avro family to build (but I digress)

I note from the opening post, the upper turret appears different to the normal Lancaster one, in both position and type. Is this correct? Is it close to the one used on the Canadian Mk X? Am trying to convert an Airfix MkX to CWHMs VeRA.

Looking forward to more updates