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limeypilot

1:72 Sikorsky Ilya Muromets, Maquette/scratchbuilt - the beast is back!

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pheonix    822

I agree with the others Ian - those exhaust pies look really convincing. I especially like your jig - you will know why!

 

I agree with the Martian - go with the brass rod because in the end you will not regret having done so!

 

P

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TheBaron    11,778

Great to see this back in production Ian. All that effort on the engines will be well worth it - they are looking amazing.

:thumbsup2:

Tony

 

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limeypilot    4,031

The radiators were causing a little angst. Namely, how to attach the brass rod to the plastic cores. I went out this morning and bought a couple of items to try. the first was a normal glue which turned out to be rubber based and totally useless. the second was this

 

36942791472_48e0c5ee8d_c.jpg

 

Very thin double sided plastic sheet. I think it may work! It allows me to attach the brass rod and still be able to adjust it slightly to get everything straight.

 Here's the first attempt, not bad, but could be improved...

 

36971487041_6a07ec4ce2_c.jpg

 

Actually , I have only just noticed the gaps from looking at the pic, they are not really visible by eye. Hopefully they will stay in place, particularly the edge pieces. I'll leave it a day or two and see how well they have stuck before moving on.

 

Ian

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pheonix    822

For a first attempt Ian that looks very good. I find that cameras have a tendency to reveal what the eye frequently misses, and wonder sometimes if it would be better not to use close up lenses when taking pictures! Cosidering the size of these radiators and their positions on the completed model I think it is fair to ask "how many people would really see those gaps?"

 

At the end of the day it is your decision concerning what you choose to do, but if it were me I think that I might be happy with that.

 

P

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hendie    6,529

Depending upon how much of the end of the rods is visible, it may be possible to tin the soldering iron and just run it across the ends of the wire and with some luck that may be enough to hold everything in place.

 

Or, assuming the radiators have some kind of framework around the outside, what about cutting a slot in the frame the same width as the diameter of the brass rod, and using that to align/hold the rods ?

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AdrianMF    4,425

Nice work on the engines, and the exhausts look great too.

 

On the radiators, it looks like your wires aren't quite straight, which is causing the gaps. To straighten brass wire I either roll it between two hard flat surfaces (sometimes works), or I stretch it a tiny bit with a pair of pliers at each end, which does the trick every time. I like Hendie's idea of putting the ends into a slot in the end frames. Or you could line up a bunch of plastic rod bits on some plastic card, brush them over with liquid cement and then cut off slices of whole radiator when dry. Although I'm not sure how big the radiators actually are and you have about 30 tubes across - the smallest diameter rod I've seen is 10 thou and I'm not sure that wouldn't just turn to mush on seeing cement.

 

Or you could just go with what you have got. I'm sure with the Mk I eyeball, and through a forest of rigging, that it will look perfect!

 

Regards,

Adrian

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limeypilot    4,031
8 hours ago, pheonix said:

For a first attempt Ian that looks very good. I find that cameras have a tendency to reveal what the eye frequently misses, and wonder sometimes if it would be better not to use close up lenses when taking pictures! Cosidering the size of these radiators and their positions on the completed model I think it is fair to ask "how many people would really see those gaps?"

 

At the end of the day it is your decision concerning what you choose to do, but if it were me I think that I might be happy with that.

 

P

Thanks P. It really isn't noticable at all, and as you say, they will be pretty well hidden, at ;east from the front. 

 

3 hours ago, hendie said:

Depending upon how much of the end of the rods is visible, it may be possible to tin the soldering iron and just run it across the ends of the wire and with some luck that may be enough to hold everything in place.

 

Or, assuming the radiators have some kind of framework around the outside, what about cutting a slot in the frame the same width as the diameter of the brass rod, and using that to align/hold the rods ?

Thanks Hendie!

The tinning idea might be worth a try! There is no frame at the sides, just top and bottom. Similar to a car radiator. I had intended to do that with plastic card, but now I'm thinking I could possibly do it with a little solder and file it all smooth when done......that would definitely hold it all in place, provided I can do it without melting the plastic core....or, of course, I could use brass for the core too.....

 

1 hour ago, AdrianMF said:

Nice work on the engines, and the exhausts look great too.

 

On the radiators, it looks like your wires aren't quite straight, which is causing the gaps. To straighten brass wire I either roll it between two hard flat surfaces (sometimes works), or I stretch it a tiny bit with a pair of pliers at each end, which does the trick every time. I like Hendie's idea of putting the ends into a slot in the end frames. Or you could line up a bunch of plastic rod bits on some plastic card, brush them over with liquid cement and then cut off slices of whole radiator when dry. Although I'm not sure how big the radiators actually are and you have about 30 tubes across - the smallest diameter rod I've seen is 10 thou and I'm not sure that wouldn't just turn to mush on seeing cement.

 

Or you could just go with what you have got. I'm sure with the Mk I eyeball, and through a forest of rigging, that it will look perfect!

 

Regards,

Adrian

Adrian, that is, I believe, the root of the problem. All the pieces were rolled on my glass cutting board with a metal ruler, but apparently they didn't all come out exactly straight. This is .010" brass wire and I agree with you that it probably wouldn't work with plastic rod and glue.

 

 A little more care with the rolling, and I'll try the tinning idea for the ends. 

 

Thanks chaps!

 

Ian

Edited by limeypilot

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TonyTiger66    5,637

I agree that these look good already Ian. Given how tiny they are and all the rigging, any microscopic gaps won't show.

 

I may be talking bobbins, but to have a little variation can look more natural. I'm thinking of a specific kit; The original FROG SB-2 bomber. I liked the way the radiators had been reproduced. Very 'in service' looking; maybe walloped by a few birds etc.

 

Looking forward to the next instalment :)

 

Best regards 

TonyT

 

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limeypilot    4,031

Thanks Tony, I agree entirely with the variation bit, but the gaps are (were...read on) a little too large....

 

I decided to give Hendie's suggestion a go, and then realised I know absolutely nothing about soldering. I tried again and again to get some solder to stick to the tops of the brass rods, but all that stuck was little blobs here and there.....

 

37192019235_8153834176_c.jpg

 

 Not very pretty! Then I looked at the other end.....

 

37192018805_149c71a825_c.jpg

 

Oh drat...( not quite the exact words, but you get the idea). It's warped!

 

 So that was left and I went for a pint (or 3).

 

Yesterday I removed all the brass rods and started to clean up them and straighten them (again). I made another core, then went for another pint. (or 2) 

 

 Finally, today I had another shot. I made sure the rods were straight, aligned them all, and then dropped the wrapped core onto them. A few minor adjustments, repeat for the other side, and we have this....

 

36378065353_6168cd3572_c.jpg

 

Much better! Now, how to ensure they all stay put...without solder!

Same idea, different medium - CA gel!

This was applied fairly generously to the ends, and will be left until tomorrow before I attempt to even up the rods and finish it off....

 

36378069123_9840d4b3c0_c.jpg

 

 I'm happy with that, and will be even happier if it works and I can file the ends level! the next set of brass rods will be cut fractionally shorter to (hopefully) negate the need for the filing!

 

Thanks for looking in!

 

Ian

 

(Off for a pint!)

 

 

 

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pheonix    822

I agree with Martian: persistence usually pays off in the end. Those rods look fine to me.

 

P

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Sgt.Squarehead    6,183

Glad to see this one return to the fore, still following and maybe even understanding some of it too.  ;)

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Ex-FAAWAFU    10,293

Radiators looking great now - especially, no doubt, to the naked eye; cameras can make us all pretty harsh critics of "mistakes" that are actually really tiny and will never be noticed in real life.  

 

I love this build; a masterclass in taking a pretty ordinary (and that's being kind) kit and turning it into an excellent model.  Old Igor is one of my heroes (as he should be for anyone who has flown rotary-wing), so what's not to like about a truly bonkers early aircraft?

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limeypilot    4,031
8 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Radiators looking great now - especially, no doubt, to the naked eye; cameras can make us all pretty harsh critics of "mistakes" that are actually really tiny and will never be noticed in real life.  

 

I love this build; a masterclass in taking a pretty ordinary (and that's being kind) kit and turning it into an excellent model.  Old Igor is one of my heroes (as he should be for anyone who has flown rotary-wing), so what's not to like about a truly bonkers early aircraft?

Cheers Crisp!

 It was definitely a little bonkers, and years ahead of it's time. The first 4 engine aircraft, first bomb sight. The Grand, on which it was based, (1912!) had cabin heating and an onboard toilet! Luckily there is plenty of open space in those parts.....

 

It also had a lifting tail, very tricky to land from what I've read.

 

Ian

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TonyTiger66    5,637

Great tenacity being displayed here Ian.

 

It's paying dividends too. Fingers crossed that the gel and rid ends will file ok (a diamond file would maybe be good here?).

 

I like the history too; I'm off to find out what a 1912 Grand is :)!

 

Best regards 

TonyT

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hendie    6,529

sorry the soldering didn't turn out but it looks like you nailed it anyway.

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