hendie Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) thanks RichO - I've been following your Crawler thread and have been totally astounded by some of the work you have been doing.... now that's commitment! Edited April 26, 2015 by hendie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I think this has to be the first time I've seen a scratch built effluent tank! Great work though, watching with interest! Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 At least he's not getting bogged down.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 .... maybe he's doing this in 'loo' of other builds..... Ace work. Roy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Could of done down the pan.... Like the build Hendie, something different. Simon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 This help? https://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/arnold-belle_2.jpg As might this lot. http://www.brightonbelle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=200113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 This help? https://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/arnold-belle_2.jpg As might this lot. http://www.brightonbelle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=200113 yup it does help. I really have no clue about trains so any info is useful. Very small update this evening - I don't want to make too big a splash! (sorry couldn't resist). - Swapped out the steel wire for some solder. I couldn't get the right bend on the steel wire. And the cover was added along with the mounting brackets. These tanks are underslung by hanging off some "J" brackets attached to the chassis cross-members. and that's as much as I have done on the effluent for the affluent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Nice looking work hendie. Let them eat cake I say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You could have saved a lot of work by modelling the Egyptian version - the bogs are open at the bottom and everything just falls onto the tracks! Wouldn't want to be a train mechanic in Egypt.... Very nice work though, by the way! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well, after a little sojourn away from the Pullman, I decided to take a week off from the Wessex to try and advance this build a little, and to try and prevent it from becoming a shelf of doom-monger. With the chassis mostly complete, there are still a few add-ons that need to be scratched. First thing up was the drawhook. This is the part that the coupler hangs from. Of course, I couldn't find anything suitable so out comes the styrene... I started off with a piece of 1/8 thick styrene. - The hook on the left was my first abortive atempt, but number two on the right looks promising. and with a little bit of fettling, the hook takes shape. Actually, the hook was a lot harder to make than it looks - there's all sorts of compound curves going on there. Of course, there's a drawhook at each end so I needed to make another. And after several attempts I gave up - I just couldn't get a decent enough hook that looked the same as the first one.... so what next ? Well, I could cast one (or two) - using my one good hook as a master would give me two identical hooks - isn't that what casting is all about ? Only one problem though... it's a hook, and hooks are designed to well, hook onto things and not let go. How would I get the hook out of the mold ? I really couldn't be bothered making a two part mold and came up with this idea - stolen from Fritag's thread on his hawk build. I think someone suggested that he use a web between the ejection seat and headrest to help with pulling the casts out of the mold. - One web added to the hook. In the end, I still had to cut the mold to allow the hook to release, but it still produced a useable part... well two in fact. After some minimal cleanup, I had two identical drawhooks. Yippee! Having chosen a rather obscure scale for this carriage (1/32) I found that there are very few "off the shelf" parts that are available. I did however, find these 1/35 buffers which don't look too far out of scale. The actual buffer part is incorrect for this carriage so I will have to scratch those - they are oval, not round, but the buffer mounting looks okay. You may have noticed on the above shot that I have added some rivet detailing to the chassis ends - it shows up slightly better in this shot - also showing where the drawhook will eventually be fitted. I also managed to find some couplers that look like they will do the job. They will require some modification - the first one being removal of the curvy actuator thingy seen here lying at the side. I still need to cut of the stem and create the mounting arrangement for the drawhook. - that will be a little bit more involved, but do-able. The water tank and the effluent tank were finished off, including all the mounting hardware - water tank seen here on the left Then it was time to start on the battery box and the regulator. Lots of styrene getting used in this build, that's for sure. I decided to go a bit overboard on detailing the battery box. It may not be strictly accurate for this carriage, but it does add a bit of visual interest on the chassis underside. Once primed, the regulator looks fine As does the battery box. The paint is still a little wet here so should look better once dried. I also primed the two tanks which you can just see in the blurry background. One tedious job was making the mounting brackets for the tanks - simple enough, but definitely tedious. Now I am getting to the part where I have to start thinking about actually assembling parts to the chassis, it was time to prime. Since the chassis is brass, I used etch primer. I also found that my home built spray booth is rather more effective than I had planned. When I turn the fan up to full power, the paint is actually visibly pulled away from the thing I am spraying - and that's coming full pelt out of an aerosol! And now for my rookie mistake.... Once I had the mounting brackets made for the tank, I thought I could take a shortcut and mount the brackets to the tank first.... then tried a dry fit.... and found that I couldn't get the tanks in place with the brackets fitted. Oh well, no big deal. It will be easy enough to fit them once the chassis is painted and the floor pan is in place. Well, that's my update for this time around. I feel progress is being made albeit rather slowly. I think the next step is to paint the chassis black, fit the floor pan and then start mounting stuff. I am slowly building up a library of photo's that give me some idea of what is going on underneath the chassis. It won't be 100% accurate (since I know nothing about trains) but it should look convincing enough for the layman. I've still to make a start on the bogies, which I think will begin soon, but I am now in two minds as whether to scratch them or have them 3D printed. Printing is definitely the easy option and the detail would be absolutely superb - but it could be expensive. However, I have nothing to lose (except a few hours of my time) by creating a bogie in SolidWorks then uploading it to Shapeways for a quote. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think this is coming along rather nicely. Great carving and casting work on the hooks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Blinkin' brilliant. What else can I say??? Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 thank you guys. Lots more to come... but slowly no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 As I edged ever closer to finally getting some paint on this beast I realized there were still a few small items that needed to go on first. They may be small but they are very important - and being ignorant about all things train like I really don't know what these bits are called. What I do know is that they support the bottom end of the diaphragm. The diaphragm is the linky bit that you walk through at the end of each carriage. To start with I needed 4 of these. I was a bit hasty and didn't get the shape 100%, but the vestibule floor sits directly on top of these parts so 100% accuracy is not required here. Then I filed some slots in the chassis ends which allows this brass square tube to fit through to the inside of the chassis. The chassis is upside down in this shot, - you can just see that small plate from the previous photo sitting underneath the brass square tube. I could have done without filing the slot and just butting the square tube up to the chassis but that would not have given a lot of movement to the diaphragm. I figured making it a lot deeper would allow for much more movement should I ever need it. The square tubing is 3/32 and is thin walled so I have a 1/16 square tube slotted inside of it. The 1/16 is the tubing that will actually be fitted to the diaphragm (when I ever get that far!) and will allow it to slide backwards and forwards in relation to the vestibule ends of the carriage. I made up this dodgy jig to try and get the chassis tubing square and true. Remember, there will be 4 tubes protruding from the diaphragm back into the vestibule area and they all need to be aligned properly if the diaphragm isn't going to jam moving in and out. Finally soldered into place.... but that's only part of the job.... There are a few more support plates and brackets on the 1:1. It's pretty difficult to see in this shot unless you know what you are looking at. This shot with the chassis upside down again shows the support brackets much clearer - and you can see that I am back to working with styrene again. I could have made these parts from brass, but I don't hold that much trust in my soldering skills and was afraid the chassis would start falling apart. - Some rivets fell out while I was soldering the tubing but I managed to get everything back in it's place once the tubing was fixed. I then took another daft turn and decided to add some rivet detail to the chassis. Although the sides overhang the chassis in this carriage, there are some views where you can just make out the rivet detailing, and I knew it would bug me later if I hadn't added them. This time the "rivets" were made from small slices of styrene rod. It's really starting to look like a chassis now. And now on to a small disaster.... I mentioned in a previous post that I had a crazy idea for the bogies.... well, here it is/was.... I had some 1/8" thick styrene sheet lying around, so I filed it to the profile of the bogie to act as a former. I then blasted it with my gas torch for a good 5 minutes to anneal the metal. Then, my styrene former and the brass were clamped into the vise, and I started hammering the bejeezus out of it.... For a while it kind of looked promising but on closer inspection it wasn't so good. The shape was almost there, but the definition wasn't so god, and it certainly wasn't consistent. And my poor little modeling vise had made a right pigs ear of the metal. So I now have to rethink the bogie construction. Ideally I need some new tools - a much larger vise for instance (but they're not cheap) and some hammers and other bits and pieces. Other questions pop to mind such as, - was the brass too thick ( I used 0.032" sheet), or not properly annealed ? I may try it again on some 0.025" and see if that's any better. I know I could do it easily in 0.010 or 0.015 but these bogies were pretty chunky and the rolled flange on the top and bottom surfaces is quite noticeable as shown here. I don't think the 0.010 or 0.015 thickness would look right. So, that was a little disheartening, but I'm sure I'll be able to work it out in the end.... that's what scratch building is all about. I have still to check out the 3D printing avenue. It's definitely the easiest route, but the cost could be prohibitive ... only one way to find out though! So, to finish off the day, I got the black spray out and sprayed the chassis!!!! It's very difficult to see here, but my home made rivets turned out to be very effective once painted. and what looked like some decidedly dodgy styrene building earlier on takes on a completely different look once painted. My clean up could have been better, but the more I look at this the more I like it. Remember that while I redesigned this carriage back in 2000, the original carriage and thus, the chassis was from 1951 so even although the rebuilt carriage went back in the tracks in a brand new condition, the chassis still had many dings and dents and some corrosion after-effects (it was grit blasted clean) - and I think my inadvertent fail in clean up has paid off in giving the chassis some character. (well that's my excuse and I am sticking to it!) although I did give in to my OCD and decided to redo the bottom end rails closest to the camera here. I used a satin black from a rattle can to spray the chassis. Given the size of the chassis, and the nooks and crannies and corners it would have taken me at least a couple of jars of modeling paint to cover the entire chassis. My plan is to use the rattle can black as the base color - rattle cans are cheap and I can afford to waste some in an attempt to get to every nook and cranny on the chassis. Once that is complete, I shall use several shades of black (real modeling paint) to dust on areas of the chassis to take away the overall blackness, and hopefully, by the time I have done that and added a couple of washes, the chassis should be looking decent. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Looking nice Hendie, those rivets do look effective. For the bogie former I would have thought 1/8" (3mm or so) thick steel would work a lot better than styrene - I'm amazed you got what you did using a plastic tool. More work to make in metal but quite doable and you could put an nice radii on the edge of it. You have four to make so its worth putting a bit of effort into the tooling. The original looks like it was made from pressed steel so I think your scratch building approach will actually look better than a 3D printed version. Brass anneals quite easily so I would have thought your prolonged blast with a gas torch would have done the trick (but it doesn't look that heat discoloured so maybe it wasn't hot enough?). You definitely need a vice with smooth / soft jaws for this operation. Your modelling vice could be used with smooth packing in the jaws but it looks a bit weedy compared to the job in hand, I think you need a bigger vice, rigidly attached to a strong bench. Looking at the real bogie, I estimate that the metal thickness is in the 20 to 25mm range so either 0.032 or 0.025" is about right. If you know the actual thickness go with the correct scale of metal. A final thought is that a more malleable metal like copper is another option and is highly amenable annealing and any required soldering operations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S5 modeller Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Brilliant work hendie. May I suggest, if you get a new vice, you invest in some click on soft jaws? Will prevent the metal getting damaged. Keep up the good work mate. You'll soon be a qualifeid blacksmith at this rate. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Slices of styrene rod for rivets!! You have boggled my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 You're correct Nigel, the vise is a modeling vise and never intended for such "industrial" work. I think if I drop down to 0.025" copper, then I might stand a chance of pulling it off - with a new vise and some new tools of course. I just used the 1/8 styrene purely because I had it handy - never fully expecting it to work, but hoping all the same. My little experiment did produce some valuable learnings for me so it wasn't all in vain. Like you said, a decent former is crucial to this task and the appropriate time must be spent on it, as the quality of the finished parts depend upon the quality of the former. S5 - now on the lookout for a new vise with jaw options Slices of styrene rod for rivets!! You have boggled my mind. In desperate times, you use what you can! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Nice try with the bogie side frames Hendie. Maybe cut the side plate from brass and then bend/contour a strip for the flange and then solder the two togerther? You could sanwich four side plates together and file them to shape one-shot. Just rolling ideas around. Colin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I have had a further thought on your bogie forming conundrum. Don't anneal the whole thing, you would be better just softening the area of the flange to be bent over. Do this by clamping in your new smooth jawed vice (when it arrives). This will provide the necessary heat sink affect, the flange should come out nice and soft and the flat area of the part will retain its strength. I am also thinking brass may be the best choice for this, copper might be too soft. Am I right in thinking the lower edge of the part is bent the other way? If it is you might need a double sided tool the full thickness of the flange, in which case aluminum might be a better choice of tool material (easier to work and strong enough at that thickness). I hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S5 modeller Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Don't know how bid your vice is, hendie, but the jaws can be purchased separately..... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-14178-Soft-Engineers/dp/B0045DNZ9Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Don't know how bid your vice is, hendie, but the jaws can be purchased separately..... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-14178-Soft-Engineers/dp/B0045DNZ9Q S5 - I need to purchase a decent vise anyway. The one I have is only about 2" jaws, which is fine for modeling but not for big hammers. Nice try with the bogie side frames Hendie. Maybe cut the side plate from brass and then bend/contour a strip for the flange and then solder the two togerther? You could sanwich four side plates together and file them to shape one-shot. Just rolling ideas around. Colin Colin, it's something I had considered, but for some reason (OCD ?) I have this bee in my bonnet about making the bogies as close to the original as I can - which also means the manufacturing method - call me crazy, call me insane.... it's all true! Nigel, yes as facing the bogie in the photo above, the top has a flange which comes towards you. The bottom of the bogie has a flange which retreats back into the carriage - nice and simple huh ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 it's something I had considered, but for some reason (OCD ?) I have this bee in my bonnet about making the bogies as close to the original as I can - which also means the manufacturing method - call me crazy, call me insane.... it's all true! I think you will get a better result by forming the flange in one. You could cut out notches to make bending simpler and join them back up with solder but I think the curves are quite gentle and forming the flange as one is quite achievable. Just my modelling opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'd tend to agree with you Nigel. It's seems ridiculously obvious, but having the right tools, the right materials and just taking my time should see this one beaten into submission. (did you see what I did there ?) Somehow, I am going to have to sneak a new vise into the basement.... I already warned the other half that I intend to buy a lathe as soon as my pennies jar is full. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infofrog Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 thats amazing Hendie .. I wished . I could see that in real .. Thats just great work Rick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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