Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[perdu]

Hi Hendie, I'm along too

As for soldering I have a couple of soldering irons that get most of my soldering done when I need them

An aunt worked for a large electrical manufacturing company in Scotland, it may have been Singer or Hotpoint, no matter

I inherited her own industrial iron, which uses a transformer to step the power down. Frankly it is only good for soldering electrical bits'n'bobs

Another I have which does get the work hotter is a 12 volt Antex iron that I used on car wiring for years

it gets far hotter but still often not enough to do the kind of work you will need

Looks like I need to investigate differing melting point solders too

But I also have one of those gas soldering guns that you refill from a gas lighter refill

that has outstanding soldering abilty if you take your time and practice

But it also loses gas at anytime if you dont close the solder head tight when you finish with it

I think you will be needing a small gas pencil flame gun for large brass sections like these

as for the carriage

A thing of beauty, I will enjoy this as much or more than the Wessex

[hendie]

Glad to have you on board perdu!

I found the soldering iron was taking almost a minute to get the brass hot enough for the solder to melt. I think the gas torch will be much better ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/251584302879?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ) and provide a much hotter and concentrated heat point. Hopefully a few seconds will suffice to get the brass up to temperature.

Edited December 24, 2014 by hendie

[Nigel Heath]

I can't see the pictures on my phone so can't comment properly. I think a gas torch is the way to go for these heavy brass sections. I would caution against applying intense heat to natural stone. If it contains any water it can explode in your face. Same for building grade asbestos. Ideally what you need is a synthetic material called Sindanyo, or failing that fire brick.

[hendie]

Thanks Nigel. I worked on marble and granite for some years and a gas torch was an invaluable tool when working with that stuff. As you probably know, it had to be wet cut. The gas torch was used to dry everything off, and it was also used in bonding and installing the stuff. Granite can take a good amount of heat before anything bad happens - and it should be a nice level surface. I'll look into that other material you mentioned though

Edited December 24, 2014 by hendie

[HOUSTON]

Hendie,

I think seeing your detailed drawings of this very nice and ambitious project, I think you CAN DO this.

your previous builds are SUPERB so this scratch build of the famous 1951 Pullman will be a delight to follow and watch.

Good Luck but you don't need that as you are more than capable of producing an excellent build for your client.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS...

[hendie]

Oops - I didn't realize it had been sol long since I had updated this thread - it seems I got caught up in the excitement of the Wessex build and have ignored this for too long.

As luck would have it, it was canopy fitting time on the Wessex and I wanted to leave the epoxy glue to dry for at least 24 hours... that gave me the perfect opportunity to reopen this old build. After finding my soldering iron was a bit underpowered when it came to soldering big chunks of brass, I invested in one of these beasts.... a gas powered torch. A bit of research told me that this was a decent model and I managed to get it direct from China for about half the local price.

Then it was back to cutting lengths of brass "C" channel to length. I'm trying to follow the original plans as much as possible but there will be the occasional foray into imagination land.

It's a constant case of measure, measure, cut, test fit, file test fit etc etc. but it's worth putting the effort in at this stage because if I screw anything up here, it's bound to bite me later on in the build.

I managed to lay my hands on a piece of scrap granite - this gives me a nice flat surface to work on and keep everything level when assembling.

My first attempt at soldering on the granite... after a little bit of clean up that is.

Assembly of the chassis recommenced with a portion of my plans cut out, placed on top of the granite, then everything stuck down with blu-tac. That way I can ensure that all the parts are in the correct position relative to each other.

Did my new soldering iron have enough Oomph ? I think so!

I might need to print off a few additional sets of the plans to see me through this build though!

After some clean up it all looks a lot better - and there's not a wobble to be found in the chassis (so far!) so it looks like the granite is doing it's job.

So, at the close of play today, we have the sole bars in position. Hurrah!

There are a lot of cross-members and other supporty structural pieces to go in there yet, but I am pleased with today's progress.

At this point, I can also begin building some of the more exciting structures of the chassis. Doing all the cross-members is going to take some time, but I can intersperse that with some of the other work which will help keep my interest level a bit higher than it's been over the last few months.

[Nigel Heath]

Nice to see this back on track if you will excuse the terrible pun.

Very nice soldering fabrication work going on there.

this old build

This is not an old build, it has barely just begun. Frankly I'm in for the long haul.

Cheers,

Nigel

[hendie]

thanks amigo - I'll try and keep it interesting... and a bit more regular than it has been

[Brandy]

Just caught up with this one. I'm not a big rail fan but this will be interesting! Always good to see something come from bits and pieces....

Ian

[hendie]

I am not a big rail fan either, but since I was responsible for the re-design of this particular carriage, it does hold a place in my heart.

The other big factor for me in deciding to build it is that unlike "modern" vehicles, this one certainly has a bit of character to it.

It will be a challenge though with so many parts to build from scratch, and a fair bit of research to do... I wasn't involved in the under chassis refit, so I have no idea what the brake assemblies and other gubbins that fit underneath look like, or how they operate.

[roymattblack]

Lovely stuff.

It's always great to see a bit of 'brass chassis'.....

I'm watching with great interest.

Roy.

[hendie]

Fresh back from my travels, and a day off work - what a pleasure.

Some more work was completed on the chassis today. The rest of the chassis cross members were fitted and the chassis cleaned up a bit.

(Apologies in advance, most of the photo's are slightly fuzzy - must have had the wrong setting on the camera)

The center portion of the main chassis is now complete. The vestibule ends are a bit more interesting so I started on one of those.

That was as far as I got before I ran out of the C-Channel.... need to order some more of that asap.

So, I started looking for other jobs and decided to start the underframe. This is where the battery box, water tank and a few other bits of train stuff go. There are four identical frame structures hanging underneath.

I tried using my soldering iron on this structure - the angle is only 3mm brass, however although I got there in the end, it was a struggle for the iron, so out came the torch again..... it was a breeze

I got two frames completed, and the parts cut for a third, before, yup, you guessed it.... I ran out of brass again. The first two were cleaned up.

The outer frames sit inside the sole bars like so....

a quick dry fit.....

and now I am off to order some more brass.....

Happy Easter folks

[Nigel Heath]

Looking really nice and "structural". That appeals to the engineer in me. But hendie just mind you don't burn your house down. (I am sure Mrs Hendie has no idea what pyromaniacal activities are taking place in the basement). I promise to stay stum.

Happy Easter to you and your family too.

Cheers,

Nigel

[hendie]

yeah, I must admit to being a bit paranoid about the flames.

All torching is done on top of the granite so the only thing that catches fire is the paper. I damp everything down when done I make sure I'm in the basement for at least an hour after torching things. (Followed by several visits later in the evening just to make sure!)

[Nigel Heath]

Spoken like a true pyromaniac who is trying to reform but failing slightly.

[Brandy]

We could have done with you and your soldering up here in MA. during all the snow we had - I'm sure I saw a few brass monkeys looking for help.....

Ian

[hendie]

Work on the chassis continues, the majority of it now assembled, with just some finishing touches around the ends to complete.

More brass arrived while I was away galavanting around the States so I managed to get the second vestibule end made up.

I have a sneaking suspicion that once complete, this carriage is not going to fit into my spray booth!

Then the four frames under the chassis were soldered together. Thankfully, these are only dry fitted as I just noticed that one of them is facing the wrong way in this photo!

Well, golly gosh and bless my cotton socks! They almost look as if they will all line up when the time comes to fit them.

With all the cross members and supports fitted on the chassis, the main focus is on the ends - not sure of the terminology here... headstock ?

While all the "C" channel of the chassis is 8mm deep, the end piece is supposed to be 10mm deep with a return at the bottom edge. I cut this piece down from a 3/4" flat bar as I couldn't lay my hands on any 10mm flat bar around here. For the return, I am using some 3mm equal angle...

Which will be fitted behind the flat bar like so.... but first I need to trim 1mm off one of the edges so that it doesn't interfere with the chassis rails.

Next up is a lot of drawing work. I need to sort my way through all my drawings and figure out what cuts/holes/other thingies need to be done to the chassis ends. Then print off some plans to work to.

Of course, when I was designing this carriage, I only detailed the stuff that needed to be modified, or otherwise worked on - therefore, I never paid much attention to the actual ends of the chassis. It took me hours of searching this weekend to find a shot of the carriage ends which show the area I need to detail.

Additionally, trying to find details on the Gresley bogies was a tad frustrating. In the end, I found an un-dimensioned schematic of half a Gresley in a PDF I scrounged from somewhere - I grabbed a screen shot and traced over that in Draftsight, then mirrored it to give me the full bogie.

Then I found out that there were at least three different versions of that particular bogie.... yup, I'd done the wrong one, but thankfully that PDF also had the one I needed. Stay tuned for a madcap attempt at making my own bogies from scratch! (Then I still have to deal with the buffers somehow!)

[Nigel Heath]

Now by any estimation that is lovely work there.

10mm flat bar around here. For the return, I am using some 3mm equal angle...

My brain is highly relieved that you are now mainly working in the metric system. It tends to fizz otherwise.

a madcap attempt at making my own bogies from scratch!

Now that is something I am really looking forward to.

Cheers,

Nigel

[hendie]

Now by any estimation that is lovely work there.

Thank you very much sir. It still needs a lot of clean up, but there's a lot more mucking about to do before priming

My brain is highly relieved that you are now mainly working in the metric system. It tends to fizz otherwise.

For this, it made sense - all my original drawings were metric... and it's a lot easier to scale 19000mm than it is 51' 9¹⁵/₃₂"

a madcap attempt at making my own bogies from scratch!

Now that is something I am really looking forward to.

Cheers,

Nigel

actually, I am too. Well, at least the first one.....

[hendie]

I came across some photo's of the build in Edinburgh. - These certainly bring back some memories.

Sorry about the quality, but this was back in the days before digital cameras.... well, at least back in the days before I could afford a digital camera!

Unfortunately, these are all the shots I have of the construction

[Brandy]

Looks as though you have your work cut out - this is going to be serious!

Ian

[Pete in Lincs]

Well the real thing & your chassis

both look pretty solid to me!

[hendie]

I got some work done on the Pullman this weekend - taking a short break form the Wessex as I wait for some more materials to arrive (plus it's nice to take a little break every now and then on such a long build).

The chassis end plates were finished off. The 1:1 has a return on the bottom edge which I replicated by soldering a piece of angle on the bottom edge. In order to get it to sit right with the chassis "C" channel, I had to file down one of the edges on the angle. Completed one on the left and in progress on the right.

I had to come up with some pretty hokey clamping methods to hold things in place while soldering (yes I am now looking for some decent clamps)

Thankfully, my bodged clamping system worked well enough to let me solder the chassis cradle bars without too much trouble. Here's the first one in place.

and sometime later that afternoon... all four cradle bars were in place (and all facing the right way!). Okay, my soldering isn't pretty... you could say agricultural, but it did the job.

It's even strong enough to sit on it's belly!

The chassis end pieces were the next items to be soldered. I think I am going to have to make the drawhooks from scratch - there doesn't seem to be a lot of 1/32 coach components available here in the USA. I did find some in the UK but the prices were astronomical. The frustrating part is even when you do find something, there are no dimensions, so it means taking a chance on pretty much anything I could buy. Oh well.. I'm in no rush so I can afford to take my time - it's just as well that I actually like scratch building.

Here's a view from above. It almost seems a bit crazy to cover all this work up, but at least I'll know there's a real chassis under there when it's all finished.

That's most of the chassis work done now, at least as far as soldering goes (I think). - ah! - just remembered... I still have to add the bolster plates for mounting the bogies, but that's about it.

I have some clean up to do, but all in all, not too much. It should clean up easily enough, then I'll need to give it a good scrub to make sure I get rid of all the flux and residue before it goes to paint.

I'm actually very pleased with the way it's gone since this is my first real attempt at this type of work.

I couldn't resist slapping on a couple of paper bogies to see what it's going to look like.....

Here's a close up of the Gresley bogie - I am actually looking forward to making these from scratch. It will no doubt be challenging but I have a couple of new scratch techniques to try out which I hope will be successful in producing the bogies. I know it would be simple to knock them up in SolidWorks and get them 3D printed, but I'd really rather try adn build them form scratch... it's much more fun that way.

With the chassis work now (almost) complete, it's time to move on to more traditional methods of scratching... in other words... it's out with the styrene sheet again.

There's a number of items under-slung on the chassis. The first one up is the effluent tank. - I used number tabs from discarded runners to act as reinforcements at the corners.

Here's the almost complete effluent tank. Pipe work from styrene tube and punched disc, the angled pipe is a scrap piece of runner, and the overflow is a piece of steel wire.

There's a crazy amount of bracketry still to be added in order for it to hang off the chassis.

When finished it will live in this general area. There's a water tank (which is almost identical) to go in here as well as a couple of battery boxes. Sadly, the chassis and everything under there is painted black on the 1:1 which means that a lot of detail will eventually be lost. - I think I'll end up using a number of different blacks to try and keep some of the detail visible.

If anyone has any good links to what else goes underneath a 1951 Pullman, I'd very much appreciate the info.

While I have complete drawings for the chassis and some components like the tanks and battery boxes, I have nothing on the braking system or other pumps, motors, and other assorted gubbins that hang underneath. I have searched for hours and been unable to find any decent information

[Biggles87]

They look like something Barnes Wallace might have designed before he went all geodetic!

[RichO]

Hendie, I just found this thread, what a great job!!! I'm really looking forward to seeing this develop. I'm now wondering if I could have built my walkways from brass. Keep up the great work!!