Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[infofrog]

Henide . Did you have any Gumbo soup and  Po Boy Sandwhich  ? I love them 

I love  Louisiana Food 

Rick 

[perdu]

I took a ride, along with t'gaffer on the steam train from Paignton to Kingswear

Guess what colour scheme the carriages are?

Guess how many of them matched their own Pullman looking browns?

 

Yup none of 'em, lots of different browns, I'll  get the pictures off to you later

Just for confirmation

[bentwaters81tfw]

On 29/07/2017 at 08:33, perdu said:

I took a ride, along with t'gaffer on the steam train from Paignton to Kingswear

Guess what colour scheme the carriages are?

Guess how many of them matched their own Pullman looking browns?

 

Yup none of 'em, lots of different browns, I'll  get the pictures off to you later

Just for confirmation

There is a difference between GWR Brown and Pullman Umber. I hadn't realised how much the paint oxidises until I watched a chap clean a rake of coaches with a hose and a yard broom.

[perdu]

I realised that, of course but some of those carriages look more like the tones Hendie has to play with

 

Browns weather away to nothing don't they

 

Their loco is gorgeous, a big shiny black beauty

 

Are these 'black fives'?

 

An old drinking buddy used to drive black fives, said he loved them...

[hendie]

12 hours ago, infofrog said:

Did you have any Gumbo soup and  Po Boy Sandwhich

 

I had gumbo Rick, but steered away from Po'boys .  I can get Po'boys here so I wanted to try things that would be more "authentic" and less likely to be found in this area.  I also tried muffuletta but have to say I wasn't particularly impressed with it.

 

 

[hendie]

and.... here we are - back in the real world, vacation long forgotten about, save for the credit card monthlies being the only reminder.  Casting went reasonably well though it's hard to see in this shot as the resin is white.  There's a few bubbles, but I got a couple of good casts before running out of resin.

The one on the extreme right is the worst case, with a few voids in the rear fins.  However, since I only need three of these, I think I already have what I need.... now to put these in a safe place...

 

 

But before that, I fired up the lathe and made some mounting collars for them out of Aluminum rod.  Well, one collar actually - then I ran out of play time for today. Though I did get the outer and inner diameters to size, so all I have to do not is slice off the required thickness with the parting tool and I have a full set of mounting collars for the vents.

 

 

While that was going on, I had a go at the torpedo vents - seemed simple enough... cast each end of the torpedo vent in resin, glue together, then add a small piece of brass tube for the outer cover.  I knocked up one half of the torpedo vent on the lathe

 

 

Then punched a series of "vents" into a layer of (American) plasticine - which to be honest, is not great, but for this job I figured it would be sufficient.

 

 

Unfortunately things did not go well with the vents.  The vents in the plasticine were too small in diameter and I kept getting voids at the end of each of the castings as can be seen below.. I even tried "injecting" the resin into the holes but still ended up with the same result.  The resin was just to viscous to flow into the mold down one side, and fill up from the bottom. It just kept filling up the entry hole (about Ø2 mm) and blocking the exit for the air trapped inside.

Back to the drawing board with this one I'm afraid.

 

 

In other news, I continued with the (2nd attempt at the) vestibule ends.  One problem I had was that all my drawings were in 2D, and it was hard to define the curve on the vestibule end as it transitioned from the side into the roof.  Luckily I work (sometimes) with Solidworks in my day job, so I extruded the vestibule ends in 3D, then subtracted the roof profile, and when that was done I used the sheet metal tool to develop and flatten the pattern. I then printed out a few copies of the pattern on paper to use as templates.

Here I am comparing the template with the vestibule end and the old side frame to ensure that the curves are all where they are supposed to be.

 

 

One down, one to go...

 

 

and again, comparing the start of the roof curvature with the side frame. Everything is looking good so far.

 

 

and following my usual pattern of jumping about all over the pace in builds, I decided now was a good time to start with the diaphragm plates. Originally, I was just going to use styrene sheet for these, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought that brass would be a better choice.  No doubt the ends will be subject to more dings, bangs, and oh-craps than the rest of the carriage during handling, so brass will stand up to the man-handling better.  I had some spare pieces in my scrap bin that appeared to be the right thickness, so shaping commenced.... cut to approximate width by hacksaw, then file down to finished width, then start the detailing....

 

 

The gangway aperture was chain drilled and removed, followed by more filing....

 

 

Finally, a diaphragm plate... or is it just a buffer plate ?

 

 

Rinse and repeat for t'other end....

 

 

The thin brass strip is for the brackets that are welded to each side of the plate.  There are two "L" shaped brackets that protrude form each side of the plate and initially I thought I was going to have to shape the complete "L" in brass, however, upon zooming in on my reference photo's, it became clear that the "L" was made up of two small straight pieces welded together.

 

More fun ahead.....

 

 

 

[Nigel Heath]

Lovely looking work on those brass end plates - they look identical.

[RichO]

Very nice work.  As your usual self. 

[Bandsaw Steve]

Torpedoes! vent holes! gangways! - now you're talking sense. When are we launching this boat?

[Bigdave22014]

18 hours ago, hendie said:

now to put these in a safe place...

ooh, we know what's going to happen here, don't we boys and girls?

Nice work on all the vents.

The gangway end is known variously as "end-plate", "face-plate". All depends on who you're talking to.

[hendie]

18 hours ago, Nigel Heath said:

Lovely looking work on those brass end plates - they look identical.

 

the  No 1 School of Technical Training left it's mark then

 

 

6 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

When are we launching this boat?

 

as soon as the wings are on your submarine!

[Pete in Lincs]

2 hours ago, hendie said:

the  No 1 School of Technical Training left it's mark then

Scarred me for life!

 

The torpedo vents. Turn the plasticene over

and then inject from the top? Any air should

in theory vent out through the injection hole.

(Maybe)

[hendie]

2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

The torpedo vents. Turn the plasticene over

and then inject from the top? Any air should

in theory vent out through the injection hole.

(Maybe)

 

I might try some low viscosity resin... or 3D printing (still undecided)

[larchiefeng]

This is kind of a dumb question but, couldn't you use the tips of some missiles from your aircraft spares boxes? I guess that, would assume that you have any! Just a thought 

[hendie]

16 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

but, couldn't you use the tips of some missiles from your aircraft spares boxes?

 

Good suggestion, but my spares box consists of a few bits and pieces, and droppings of a Wessex, a Dauphin, a Lysander, and an Islander.    Okay, the Lysander did come with some bombs, but the shape I need is a bit more complex.

Imagine a squashed conical shape with an oval cover.. sorta like this....

 

 

 

[RichO]

 

You know I make my molds from rubber.  That way I can just give it a squeeze to get the bubbles out.

[TheBaron]

Another delicious instalment in the Pullman Chronicles hendie. 

 

Sometimes you can't beat resorting to a 3d package for visualisation assistance can you? If I'd known just how complex some of the required changes on my current build were I think I would have been best advised to map these out virtually first.

 

Handsomely done on the diaphragm plates: I'm getting flashbacks to when my grandad used to take me up to the Model Engineers' Exhibitions in the early 70s.

 

As to jumping around in a build, it does add an eclectic energy to the thread from the audience point-of-view.

 

[perdu]

Excellent file work Hendie,those brass plates are fabulous

 

Good training always shows

 

Those torpedoes?

 

How many do you need?

 

I have gazillions of old 1/72 scale Sparrow missiles from countless Phantom kits if they can help

 

☺

[hendie]

On 8/1/2017 at 2:27 PM, RichO said:

You know I make my molds from rubber.  That way I can just give it a squeeze to get the bubbles out.

 

I do too, but I need a master for every cavity.  By using plasticine, I could just use the single master to make multiple cavities.  Unfortunately, I cannot squeeze that as it won't return to shape afterwards.  

 

 

21 hours ago, perdu said:

I have gazillions of old 1/72 scale Sparrow missiles from countless Phantom kits if they can help

 

Thanks for the offer Bill, but I think I am going to continue meandering down the how will I make this path for a while yet before I admit defeat.

 

 

On 8/2/2017 at 4:13 AM, TheBaron said:

Sometimes you can't beat resorting to a 3d package for visualisation assistance can you?

 

True.  I have used 3D printing in the past - the tail yoke on my Wessex build for example, but I like to try and scratch build wherever possible.  

Using 3D printing gives a great result, but something inside me tells me it's almost a form of cheating (I know it isn't but...) or choosing the easy option.  I mean, I could have 3D printed the entire Pullman car - but where's the fun in that ?   That said, 3D printing definitely has it's place in modeling.

[perdu]

"before I admit defeat"?

 

Has the date for the final Armageddon been set then?

 

It wasn't in the paper this morning and I/we know you will never just give up unless...

 

No Hendie we know you will drop onto/into the right way soon anyway

 

Ill be happy to see it happen

[perdu]

On 01/08/2017 at 17:30, hendie said:

 

Good suggestion, but my spares box consists of a few bits and pieces, and droppings of a Wessex, a Dauphin, a Lysander, and an Islander.    Okay, the Lysander did come with some bombs, but the shape I need is a bit more complex.

Imagine a squashed conical shape with an oval cover.. sorta like this....

 

 

 

They're quite beefy things aren't they, do they have symmetry at each end or is there kind of teardrop effect?

 

I could see me making one by combining two castings, formed from the ends and with a separate base for each.   <  > 

 

Cast too, of course

[hendie]

Yup Bill, they are symmetrical in both the X & Y axes. 

 

4 hours ago, perdu said:

I could see me making one by combining two castings, formed from the ends and with a separate base for each.   <  > 

 

That was/is/possibly/could still be the plan

 

I visited my friendly machine shop yesterday and it looks like I may get the side frames in the next day or two

[hendie]

Small updates seem to be the order of the day - for me anyway.   Even the smallest thing seems to take forever these days.

Continuing with the buffer plates, I added the brackets that hang off each side.  Being so small, these were quite fiddly but they submitted in the end and are happily in place.  To add a bit of strength to the joint, I filed a small notch into the edge of the buffer plate, then inset the bracket before soldering.   That meant that when soldered into position, there was solder on three sides and not just one.  The upright part of the bracket was soldered on top, as from what I can see, that is the configuration of the 1:1

 

 

... in place of the vestibule end

 

 

Once happy with everything, I gave the vestibule ends a coat of alclad primer, and the buffer plates got a coat of etch primer.

 

 

Now came a job that is going to take portions of skill, determination, and luck - probably around 20%, 20% and 60% respectively.  That job is the cover that spans between the buffer plate and the end vestibule itself.  I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but we've all seen them, and walked through them at some point.

As far as I can tell, they are canvas like, and bellowed like and accordion, and just to make things difficult, they curve around the top of the buffer plate - so what could be easier hey !

Well, I scouted around for some materials and nothing much jumped to the fore. However, I did find some textured tinfoil that I rescued from somewhere a few years back.  I cut a length of that and folded it over and back on itself a few times, then tried gluing it to the old scrap vestibule end.  Fail!   The tinfoil was too thin and tore far too easily, however, it wasn't a complete failure and gave me some hope - I just needed a stronger tinfoil - but not much thicker. That was important.

Scouring around, I came across an empty cig packet - and guess what's inside ???   Yup !   thin, textured tinfoil with a paper backing... interesting.

Same thing as before, the paper folded over and back on itself a few times, then I grabbed the scrap vestibule end and slapped some more superglue on it, tehn quickly applied the "bellows".   Once that was done, I glued a styrene buffer plate on the other side and started to pull the two apart..... squeeze it back and forth a dew times to create some nice wrinkles and ...

 

 

I have to say that I am quite impressed with that.  Considering it was a very quick and dirty test, and glue just slapped on.  I think if that was painted black it could look quite convincing.

I have one rather significant issue though. The standard ciggy packet does not provide a long enough section of the tinfoil - it ends about halfway down the other side in the photo above.  I'll need to scour around and see if I can find someone who smokes 100's 

 

 

[RichO]

That turned out so frikin' cool!! nice job.

[hendie]

7 hours ago, RichO said:

That turned out so frikin' cool!!

 

Now I just have to repeat the success twice with the real parts I'll be using !