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Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage


hendie

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Pretty magnificent looking work there hendie. Shame about the missing window but I reckon you could have instated it without mishap or misadventure.

 

Quote

See - the solution is simple - just make up some crap! 😀

 

I do this all the time, please see my Flying Banana for good examples.

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That looks the real business Hendie

 

This ciggie paper to which you refer

 

Blimey isnt that expensive huh

 

When I were a fag user (American cousins, do please look this up. It may not be what you think  :)  ) I gave up when the price rose to 78 pence for twenty

 

Looking at the shelf in my local shop I see over six  pounds for twenty

 

eek!

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On 8/13/2017 at 17:44, Pete in Lincs said:

And my faux pas (yer actual French there) today occurred during the mowing of the front lawn.

The rotary blade motor mower picked up a stone and shattered one of the bay windows. Oops.

 

Nice work up above there, Hendie. Shame about the window, at least it's not a disaster.

I have no doubt a fix will be forthcoming and that it will be worth the wait.

And there is your answer, hendie. Just stick a lump off basswood to the side, and when it's on display, you can say the Pete threw a stone through the window, and you are waiting for the glazier to come and fix it.

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I seem to have missed out on a whole bunch of shenanigans over the last few weeks!

Look on the bright side Hendie, at least you missed a window out. Much better than putting one in where it shouldn't be!

 

Ian

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Thankfully the doors are completely separate entities, otherwise who knows what botch up I could have managed with those!

 

on the bright side,  the machine shop guys came through and the side frame is winging it's way back to them as I type for rework.

If things go well, I may have the side frame back by the end of the week

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Back from my jaunts again,  only to find out that I may be heading off again in a week or so... it never ends.

 

The good news is that the machine shop guys nailed it - I sent the errant side frame back up to them last weekend, not expecting to see it back again for a week or two (you can't rush things when you're getting freebies), and it turned up on Wednesday - complete with new added window - in the right place!.  It was back before I was!

This time I got it right!  w00t!     I can't thank those guys enough. I just hope I can do the side frames justice now. 

 

I worked on them today, getting the return angles on the ends... paying particular attention to making sure that I did put them on the inside - double, triple and quadruple checking before I hit the soldering iron. Getting the radius on the ends is proving a bit troublesome.  I've been searching for a decent set of files here for ages, and it seems that no-one stocks anything other than b'stard files so I've just had to resort to ebay.

 

More work was done on the vestibule ends - it's ta,ken about 6 rounds of filling and sanding to get them the way I want but they are now ready for the umber paint at long last. However I think my airbrush needs some new needles and heads - it's been playing up recently.  I'll give it a good clean tomorrow and see try it out on some scrap to see if I can get a good finish - if I can, I'll paint the vestibule ends, if not, they'll need to wait for new airbrush parts to arrive

So, not really anything worth photographing quite yet... maybe tomorrow - we'll see how it goes.

 

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As promised earlier,  here is this weeks progress forwards, and this weeks progress backwards.  It seems I can't have one without the other.

 

Brass !  Side frames.  Two off.  Carriage, for the building of.   I got 'em.  This time, with all the windows, and even better... all the windows in the correct place.  What a palaver... all caused by my very own stupidity no less.  However, that episode is now behind us, or me, at least.  I shall pay more attention in the future (don't we always say that though?)

 

P8250001.jpg

 

I have to say that I am really liking this Tix solder stuff.  For a ham fisted oaf like myself it's really easy to use and does exactly what it says on the tin.  The first job was to solder some angles on each end.... after CAREFULLY examining photo's, then the side frames, then more photo's, then the side frames again, before sticking a dod of masking tape on the inside of each side frame to remind me that was in fact the inside!  After the angles were added, it was a case of squaring off the ends.  I tried to lay on some extra solder to fill up the gap as the brass  angle I used had a radiused edge and not square, resulting in a teensy weensy gap where the two parts met at the outer edge.

 

P8260005.jpg

 

Then after driving around town looking for a decent set of files, and being totally out of luck, I set to adding the radius on the car sides.  Being very careful with a sweetheart file, I followed that up with a diamond file, another smoother modelers file, then finally with 400 grit wet and dry, and lastly with some wire wool.  It looks like I managed to keep the radius on the edge fairly even.  I'll know better when I finally get some primer on them.

 

P8260006.jpg

 

The next job was one I was definitely in two minds about.  I need some method to fix the side frames to the chassis, and checking my limited stocks, I decided that brass angle would come into play again.  However, should I solder it or glue it ?   I was worried that soldering would deform or otherwise mar the brass side frame, on the other hand, gluing brass to brass has never really worked well for me and I was worried that at some point the bond would break, and if I was near the end of the build that could be disastrous.  So I decided that solder was the only way for this part.  I cut 3 x 4" length of angle and after a quick test on some scrap brass, I felt confident enough to proceed.  It all went rather smoothly though my soldering skills do leave a lot to be desired.  It's just as well, this is all on the inside.

 

P8260008.jpg

 

As you can see, not the best soldering in the world but functional.  I also drilled two holes in each of the three angles in the hope that I may actually be planning ahead.  The side frames will be glued to the chassis but I hope to be able to use the holes to screw the side frame in position while I'm still in the build process, just in case I need to remove them at any time... who knows.

 

P8260009.jpg

 

After the chassis mounts were in place, I added some "C" channel along the cant rail area.  This time I used E6000 - which remains quite flexible once cured.  The last thing I need is for anything to pop off if flexed.

 

P8260012.jpg

 

Both side frames done with one still to be cleaned up.  The nice thing about using brass is that I don't need the multitude of vertical formers I needed when using styrene.

I may still add some in later though, as I will need some support for the interior paneling.

 

P8260013.jpg

 

Then it was a milestone phase for me - getting etch primer on the interior. I used the standard rattle can for this as I wasn't really bothered about the finish in this area.

 

P8260014.jpg

 

And this is what the brass side frame looks like in position.  Yes, it was a wise, if somewhat delayed decision to go with brass for the side frames.  It does look much, much better than my earlier attempts.  It all sits nicely on the chassis with no tin -canning or warp.  Yippee!

 

P8260011.jpg

 

Now, with all that forward progress something just had to go not quite right.  While working on the vestibule ends, I noticed that one of the ends had developed a nasty curve where no curve had a right to be...

 

P8250002.jpg

 

Thankfully, I managed to sort it out using superglue and some luck.  I really don't fancy having to make another set of these (again!)

 

P8260004.jpg

 

So, the ends were almost ready.  I had added the interior paneling, the ends were primed and filled, primed and filled etc. etc.  I finally got them to a stage I was happy to proceed with so it was time for paint.  I decanted some of the brown enamel from the rattle can and put it into a clean jar.  It was rather exciting as it all started frothing up and off gassing for some time.   This is about half an hour after the paint was decanted - it eventually settled down after a few hours to about half full.

 

P8260007.jpg

 

The airbrush was cleaned out and some test spraying on some scrap and everything looked good to go... so I sprayed both ends... Ouch ! (again dammit!)

 

P8260017.jpg

 

I'm not sure what's going on here.  The ends were clean, I micro-meshed the primer before spraying and the parts looked good.  However, I seem to have arrived at a rough-cast finish.  I did a couple of mist coats, followed by a heavier application then a wet coat - and I got pebble dash!

 

P8260015.jpg

 

Still, these are not quite as bad as my last attempt.  I'm going to give them a few days to cure, and try a micro-mesh to see if I can get an acceptable finish.

I wonder if the enamel is reacting with the alclad primer?  I'm at a loss to think of anything else.  I'm not the best airbrusher in the world but I can normally get a half decent coat.  It's things like this that really put me off and just exacerbate my fear of painting.

 

On the up side, I feel I have really made some good progress getting the side frames to where they are.  Next stage is to etch prime the outer surfaces after a good clean.  No rattle can for that though - I'll decant the etch primer and lay on several thin coats to be on the safe side. Preparation will be everything for those parts.

 

 

 

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Hendie,

Great to see you back on here and making progress too.

Commiserations on the vestibule ends. Stupid paint, Doh!

It may be a reaction but also could it be humidity or something like that?

Maybe just mist coats 24 hours apart would do the trick?

Hopefully the micromesh will bring things back under control.

 

Back to test spraying before the actual final coat?

 

The pictures of the sideframes now show the full size of this baby,

It is pretty large, I have to say. Nice soldering too.

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Thanks Pete. 

 

5 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

and making progress too.

 

it's all relative isn't it ?

 

I doubt it's the humidity, it's down to the high 70's here just now and has been for a day or two - plus I've had the air conditioning on (since we had a visitor from the UK) so all the humidity has been drawn out of the house.  Good idea about daily mist coats though - it's worth a try after I micromesh the crap out of them.

 

3 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

The pictures of the sideframes now show the full size of this baby,

 

It's going to be just over 600 mm (2 ft) long when finished, so by the time I create a base for it and get a display case, it's probably going to be closer to three feet long.

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Here's something that I used when building the Pocher Mercedes. When I was fitting the floor pan and body to the frame it required multiple mock ups. In my case, I was worried about stripping out the screws in the plastic body. So, I secured a length of 2mm threaded rod to the frame and slipped the parts with holes corresponding to the rod and tightened them down with 2mm nuts and washers. 

Perhaps you could do the same thing on the L channel on the brass side walls of the coach. This way you wouldn't have to worry about gluing or soldering it together on final assembly. Just a thought.

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Hi Hendie,

if I may suggest, your paint issues are definitely a reaction between the Alclad and the enamels.

There is way you can prove this to yourself. Simply put a couple of drops of Alclad in a jar top or dish, then put a couple of drops of enamel on top. It doesn't matter that they are liquid and not dry.

Watch the reaction! It will appear to 'fizz', and this is the same even when dry. Hence the 'bubbly' finish.

Reason being, Alclad is lacquer based and enamels are oil based.

Hope this helps.

 

Ron

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11 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

I secured a length of 2mm threaded rod to the frame and slipped the parts with holes corresponding to the rod and tightened them down with 2mm nuts and washers. 

 

Sounds good - I have some small screws and bolts which should do the job nicely - thanks

 

 

35 minutes ago, silver911 said:

Watch the reaction! It will appear to 'fizz', and this is the same even when dry. Hence the 'bubbly' finish.

 

I had figured (wrongly it seems) that it would have been okay since the alclad had been cured on the parts for weeks. Thanks for the info.

 

I guess I should really have known that. Methinks I'll now be using rattle can primer for this job.

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I'd agree with silver, you really ought only use an enamel based primer if using enamel paints

 

Here in the UK Halfords seem to get away with using an acrylic based primer under their rattle cans top. Coats

 

You will probably remember their car colours stinking nicely of cellulose, not any more

These days you get water based paints to cover any car, so maybe using an acrylic base coat might work

 

They still smell of paint but not the old heavily cellybased stuff

 

I love the new windows, very much a learnt experience huh.

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4 hours ago, perdu said:

I'd agree with silver, you really ought only use an enamel based primer if using enamel paints

 

at least with the side frames I'll be using an etch primer and on the testing I've done, that hasn't reacted... so far !

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1 hour ago, hendie said:

 

at least with the side frames I'll be using an etch primer and on the testing I've done, that hasn't reacted... so far !

 

Will you then be applying a normal primer coat before the base (Colour) coat?

Reason I ask is because etch primers are very thin (I don't mean consistency) and don't provide a seal from moisture.

 

Ron

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A visual Smörgåsbord of an update there hendie ; lovely stuff. Glad you got the windows sorted and really loving that lush brasserie now. Being so new to the process I still l find soldering such an excitingly alchemical process that if the bits stay together it's simply a bonus!

 

Annoying on that paint reaction I know but all food for the commonwealth of lore that exists here on the forum. Easy for me to say of course...

 

That last photo looks remarkably like a Modernist bar of chocolate.:D

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