Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[Nigel Heath]

Looks good to me.

[perdu]

Rich is right

 

Cool 

 

Very

[hendie]

work is still continuing, but nothing really to show photomagraffically.

 

I've been reworking the interior of the vestibule ends - you saw photo's the first time around so I am waiting until I have them in a much more complete state before unveiling again.

The brass side frames arrived - they look great, perfect in fact... but there's still some work to do to them as I need to form the rounded corners at the entrance doors - the perfect opportunity to completely mess up the side frames

 

I'm in one of those chicken vs egg vs omelette situations with the vestibule ends.  The ends really need painting before fitting to the chassis, but they will also need decals on them, and I'd rather do that before fitting the ends as it could be problematic fitting decals to vertical surfaces.  The decals I need for the vestibules are tiny (but very prominent), but the lead time on custom decals is months - but I have a slightly cunning plan which I shall divulge in the not too distant future.

I also need to fit the windows - which need fitting before the interior woodwork, but as soon as I fit those I know it becomes a dust magnet.

Throw into the mix that I am away on business all next week, and a couple of days in the following week and you can see that time is at a premium - which in turn means that I can't get into anything too involved

 

I may try and get an update at the weekend if I can

[hendie]

BigDave22014, I have a question to ask which I hope you can help me with....

 

would you happen to know where I could find decent photo's of the passcom arrangement on the vestibule ends as can be seen in this photo here...

I'm particularly interested in views of the other side where there appears to be some kind of control box and conduit

[Bigdave22014]

Sorry Hendie, I personally don't have anything that would be of use to you, except to search t'interweb for pictures.

You would only have to build it on one end though, which is useful. There would be some complicated linkages which took the control rod over the corridor connection, but it seems hidden on Pullman Cars.

The reason there's stuff both sides is that this is a dual brake fitted vehicle, so one system (although connected) for each brake type.

A brief summary for those interested parties:

The passcom (Passenger Communication) was used by passengers to apply the brakes in an emergency. A chain ran in a conduit down the length of the coach, with access points at various locations - usually each doorway, and two or three in the seating area. This chain was fixed at one end and went over a cam at the other end (housed in the half round protuberance seen at the top of the picture Hendie linked above). Pulling the chain rotated the cam, causing a control rod to rotate which opened a valve to either allow air into the Vacuum system (lose vacuum, brakes apply), or vent air from a Air system (lose air pressure brakes apply). The control rod has a red indictor on each end (a butterfly) to indicate to the Guard which coach the chain has been pulled in. To reset the system, the guard would simply lean out of the window and turn the butterfly back to horizontal.

Modern versions don't apply the brake, but alert the driver who can then use an intercom system to find out what's wrong and allow him/her to stop the train in an appropriate location (not in a tunnel, or on a viaduct!). There is a time limit on this, I think it's three minutes but it may vary between train types.

[Bullbasket]

I don't know if these are any use. If they are I could try and do them again as I scanned them from a book on Mk.1 coaches.

 

Sorry that one's upside down. Let me know if they are any good.

 

John.

[hendie]

thanks for trying John.   Unfortunately they're a bit too small for me to get any detail from.

 

I just tried to search to see if I could find a better picture of what I was talking about and came across this thread on another forum - and it details everything I need - dunno why it didn't pop up in my searches earlier

[TheBaron]

The cig packet squeezebox is some inspired improvisation hendie. It seems to answer visually to the task extremely well!

Nice one.

[hendie]

4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

It seems to answer visually to the task extremely well!

 

it's just a shame that my visualization skills do not extend to looking at what is right in front of me, staring me right in the fizzog, and wot I have already made a bunch of (though screwed up), and when it comes time to get serious (and expensive!) I go and somehow make a one-eyed, one buttocked, flying purple error of it.  A mistake of such humongous enormity and sheer utter stupidity, that I could pass for a politician

 

 

more to come later.... once my face has cooled down a bit

[Bandsaw Steve]

Looking forward to it.

I always enjoy a good stuff up me. That's why I make so many of them. 😀

[hendie]

oh... make no mistake - this is a classic

 

 

photo's probably sometime tomorrow

[perdu]

hmmm...

[hendie]

5 minutes ago, perdu said:

hmmm...

 

yes indeed.   hmmm.....

 

 

well, here we go for another round of scratchety scratch, with a free helping of blundery blunder, and some choice expletives and other utterances of the non publishing type.

 

I was so pleased at getting on with the buffer plates, and rushing into primer that I completely forgot about the transition plate which overlaps the carriage floor.  However, that was quickly sorted by cutting some brass angle, and since I didn't want to chance boogering up the primer (dunno why - it was just primer after all...) that I chose to glue the angle in place using E6000.  Easy huh ?

 

 

Now it was time to get serious with the vestibule ends... again.  This time hopefully I won't stuff things up.   Basswood strips to form the archway...

 

 

and basswood sheet to form the interior panels.  It was a bit tricky on the arch side of the panel as that strip is only about 1.5 mm wide so care was needed to ensure that my clumsy handling did not break or otherwise destroy the panels.

 

 

Eventually it starts to take shape.  Everything is just dry fitted at the moment.  I can't fit the interior panels until the "glass" is fitted, and I don't want to fit the glass until the exterior of the vestibule ends is painted.

Pondering on these I realized that there will be very little contact are between them and the car itself.  I needed something to beef things up a bit.

 

 

You can just make out here that I have added and upper and lower cross beam from thick styrene. It helps the vestibules hold their shape and the lower one - just visible under the left side of the "mat" will provide a much larger surface area for gluing when the time comes.

 

 

The mat is a piece of felt I have left over from another build.  In the 1:1 there is coir floor matting in this area.  I think the felt will work to represent the coir mat - withe the added bonus of being able to hide the step in the floor created by me adding the cross beams

 

 

And as is always the case... very little of the work will be seen from the outside once it's all buttoned up. 

The fawn colored thingy lying in front of the car is a tread plate which is fitted between the car and the buffer plate.  That will get a coat of aluminum in due course.

(yes... I'm still working on the electrical boxes and chains 'n' stuff hanging off the undersides here)

 

 

AND NOW..... take a look at these.... the long awaited side frames arrived.   Of course I couldn't wait to unpack them - and I wasn't disappointed.

 

 

Absolutely flippin' amazing or what ! 

Dimensions are perfect. Everything is absolutely square. The frames are perfectly flat.

 

Look at the quality of these window cut outs.  The edges are fantastic.  I was absolutely blown away by the quality of the work.  While I was still in a dizzy, I put them away IN A SAFE PLACE !!!

 

 

I had some supplies arrive courtesy of those South American women who set up a big shop on t'interweb.  I had been hunting for ages for some low melting point solder, which for some obscure reason appears to be as common as a Trump apology here in the US.  However, I did eventually happen across some product which piqued my interest... Tix !    No... not the little boogers which bury themselves deep under your skin, and which we have to pick off the dog every time we take her for a walk, but Tix - a solder intended for jewellery.  It has low melt solder  (pronounced "sodder" if you speak Americanese), a special flux which apparently does not need cleaning afterwards, and even more interestingly a magical compound called Anti-flux.  I can only imagine it's to prevent the DeLorean from accidentally firing up while you are in the process of soldering that last connection on the capacitor thingy.  

Apparently, you paint this anti-flux compound on areas that you do not want solder to flow - I shall need to investigate this magical compound in the near future. (you can't tell from this photograph here, but both liquids are very low viscosity, and have nice little brushes inside the cap)

 

 

So, for those of you who have been following this prolonged and somewhat interminable chronicle involving the mythical creatures known only as "the side frames"... I decided that NOW WAS THE TIME. !!!

If you are not familiar with the layout of this (and many other) Pullman's,  the side frames stop short of the carriage ends, and the doors are recessed from the carriage sides before joining up with the vestibule ends.  This means that there is a 90° return at each end of the side frame as it turns to meet the recessed doors.  I now had to fabricate that return.

Now, not wanting to jump in feet first and end up destroying the lovely pieces now resting in a safe place, I thought it only prudent to test out this new low melting solder on a test piece.  So, scrap piece of brass, same thickness as the exquisite side frames, and a piece of brass angle were prepared. Unfortunately the brass angle has a slight radius on the exterior 90° so that will necessitate filling with solder and shaping afterwards.

The brass was cleaned, soldering iron fired up (at low temperature) the flux painted on, and I attacked the brass as gently as I could.  I now like Tix very much!

It was as simple as simple could be- the solder flowed beautifully and it was easy to fill up the gap between the flat sheet and the radius of the angle.  Then the file came out and I shaped the edge to provide a fillet along the length - as can be seen here.  (ignore the little ugly bit at the extreme right - I tested my normal solder to see how it worked... it didn't fare well.

However - with the Tix, I am a happy man. Very.

 

 

Exuberance still exuberating,  I went to my safe place and pulled out the exalted side frames, being very conscious of them, and trying my very best not to ding, scratch, bend or otherwise chew on them.

Soldering gear was all set up and running, my pulse was steady. The bench was cleared (very unusual!) and I prepared to start work on adding the returns.

The first thing to do was to mark the INSIDE surface of the side frames.  I didn't want to make such a stoopid mistake as soldering the angles on the outside of the frames now, did I?   Just how silly would I look then ???

I placed the side frames down on my bench and a small but very unsettling thought started meandering through the cerebral sponginess that is my grey matter.... it didn't twig at first but something wasn't quite right.  I could see it but I couldn't see it.  Then I could see it!

The meader turned into an avalanche.... INSERT CHOSEN EXPLETIVE HERE !!!

insert another expletive here

 

and here....

 

and here....

 

 

and throw in another half dozen just for good measure !

 

 

Take a look at this photo shown below - this is both side frames overlaid on each other

 

 

Did you spot my deliberate mistake ?

I'll forgive those of you who are not familiar with this carriage, but the rest of you must be falling off your chairs right about now.  How did I do that ?  How on this big #$%&##*8@#!!!!!!!! earth did I do that ?

My first thought was that my machine shop had made a blooper, so I raced upstairs, checked my emails and found the PDF that I had sent for the design.... Nope - the machine shop had made EXACTLY what I had given them.  They had made it perfectly.  Perfect I tell you.  It was my fault. My fault.   IT WAS ALL MY OWN STUPID FAULT.

 

(got it yet ?)

 

I missed a window.    Yep.   I completely and utterly missing an entire freakin' window !!!!!!!!     'doh!    

 

Dork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Imagine just how stupid I felt at this time ! - I designed the darned thing back in '98.  I worked on the design for almost two years.  I watched the 1:1 car being constructed in front of my very own eyes.  I've been building this model of it for over two years and cut about two dozen side frames which weren't quite up to scratch - but they all had the right number of bloody windows didn't they!

Words fail me.     Suffice to say that I have now calmed down a bit, and very, very sheepishly, sent another email to my buddies at the machine shop asking if they can see their way to either adding the missing window to this frame, or make another frame.   Oh dear... I feel so embarrassed, particularly the last 5 characters of that word.

 

So... my carefully laid plans of working on the side frames are now back on hold again as I await a response, and perhaps a jeer or two from my metalworking buddies and see how I move forward from here. 

I did consider attempting to cut the window out by myself as initially, I was too embarrassed to approach the machine shop given I had made such a glaringly obvious error, but sanity prevailed and I realized that there was just now way on earth that I could match the quality of their workmanship, and I'd more than likely stuff the whole thing up.  I don't even have the proper tools to hold the work piece securely, so I'd just be asking for trouble.

 

Anyhoos.... with a spring in my step, a smile on my face, and an onion in my pocket, I took stock of the situation and started planning what I could work on next.... and settled on the passcom.  The emergency brakery that stops the train when you pull the cord, in some cases the handle, or smash the glass (or is that for a fire ?).    After some (a lot actually) searching I found some decent photo's of the areas of concern. There was enough detail for me to think I knew what I was looking at anyway.

Thankfully, I still have the end vestibule that I stuffed up some time back, so it was brought into play as a surrogate to allow me to start throwing together what I imagined the actuation system looked like.

This is just a rough "put it together to see if it is going to work" attempt, but it looks promising.

 

 

I'm using a mixture of styrene rod, sheet, brass bits and bobs, resin hex nuts, and some solder to achieve the effect.   The biggest problem I had were the two elbows directly beneath the control box... There should be a short length of tubing between the two elbows, but no matter how I tried, I just could not get the elbows tight enough or short enough to allow me to fit a short length in there (cue a fnaar!).  For reference, those two elbows are made from Ø1.2 mm solder.  The nice thing about using solder, is that when it's cut cleanly, the flux core shows up nicely, and being softer than the solder itself, it's relatively easy to start drilling and stay centered.

As I mentioned, this is just a rough put together - I think when this is all added to the real vestibule end, cut to size and painted, the overall effect will be good enough.  I think this proves the concept anyway.

 

 

and here I end this enthralling installment of Sorry, I'm a Doofus... sponsored by Windex

 

 

 

 

[perdu]

Looks good

 

Little mistooks?

 

I dont know anyone that hasn't made them, some folks (me in THAT number) have made more than hundreds in time

 

And that is only referrring to my modelling, if we went into my LIFE you would need a book

 

As I said, it looks good

 

I do like that valvery work, 'spect when you have finished the mini pax will be able to operate the chains or the phones

 

 

[bar side]

I always remember when they opened the new hospital in Colchester.  They did the building sign off checks and found some rooms on the first floor were a little dark.  Yes, they had built entire rooms in a hospital with no windows.  So you are not the first.....

[longshanks]

Those who have never made a mistake have never achieved anything..............

 

Tix Sodder looks interesting, what soddering iron did you use

 

_{Barring a small hiccup} some  great modelling going on here

 

Kev

[Bandsaw Steve]

You do realise, of course, that Pullman car 8214 had that particular window blanked out in 1956 for a period of approximately 8 months. This was a security measure as the car was being used to transport high-risk prisoners from overcrowded English prisons up to Edinburgh from whence they were distributed to a number of regional gaols.

 

See - the solution is simple - just make up some crap! 😀

 

Its called 'alternative fact generation'. I believe your American friends will be quite familiar with the concept. 😜

 

 

 

[longshanks]

 

Just spat my Cornflakes across my better half..........

 

 

Kev

[Bigdave22014]

Those sides are a thing of beauty, as is your communication apparatus (emergency brakery thingies).

(we won't mention the window)

[hendie]

3 hours ago, longshanks said:

Tix Sodder looks interesting, what soddering iron did you use

 

Kev,  I used this cheapo soldering station from Amazon.

 

 

Since I'd never really soldered in earnest before, I didn't want to go spending a wad of money on one. The intent was always to upgrade once I felt I got the  hang of it - I'm still trying to get better.  It does the job but the one thing I'll go for next time is a temperature readout instead of the 1 - 8 setting.

 

I also have a little hand held butane fired torch for the heavier jobs - I used this a lot when building the chassis (The soldering iron just didn't have enough oomph in it for that)

 

 

The Tix Solder Kit is available on Amazon here or from the UK Ebay

 

 

[TheBaron]

We're always harder on ourselves about such matters as the window than others are hendie. 

 

Sometimes sheer familiarity with a subject can be the  paradoxical source of error.

 

There is a hospital about half an hour's drive from where I live which was built the wrong way round with the front facing away from the road and the back right beside it. It has several hundred windows in the wrong place...

[Pete in Lincs]

And my faux pas (yer actual French there) today occurred during the mowing of the front lawn.

The rotary blade motor mower picked up a stone and shattered one of the bay windows. Oops.

 

Nice work up above there, Hendie. Shame about the window, at least it's not a disaster.

I have no doubt a fix will be forthcoming and that it will be worth the wait.

[hendie]

24 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Sometimes sheer familiarity with a subject can be the  paradoxical source of error.

 

ain't that the case.

 

8 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I have no doubt a fix will be forthcoming and that it will be worth the wait.

 

hopefully my machine shop buddies will see their way to installing another window for me - otherwise I will need to invest in some more tools

[RichO]

Dude,  I just hide my mistakes and don't show you guys.  Welcome to the club, (altho I suspect you have been a member for a while, as with us all). Alternative fact generation can work wonders!

[hendie]

Thanks guys, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who can truly stuff things up.

 

Another small update today, but quite a good one as far as I am concerned.... more on the vestibule ends I'm afraid.    It's difficult to see in this photo, but I added two strips 1.5 mm wide along each end strip of the bellows.  I spotted that the 1:1 has a reinforcing strip to bolt the bellows in place, and this will add a little bit of rigidity to the bellows as I am gluing it in place.  Only one done as a test, three more to do, but that one has gone off to the paint shop for now.

 

 

Now, the good part... on closer investigation of the buffer plate area, I discovered that the bellows has a cowl, or shroud over the top.  This was going to be a bit of a problem - 1, getting it to look right, and 2, getting it in place and secure without stuffing up the rest of the vestibule end.  I already knew I was going to use the cigarette wrapper as it had both the texture and the strength I was looking for - but how to make the shroud ?

 

My plan for assembling all these parts are - bond one side of the bellows in place, bond the opposite side of the bellows in place.  The buffer plate sits about 6.5mm off the face of the end vestibule - somehow I would have to fit the shroud in there.  Obviously, it had to be preformed as there was now way I would be able to glue it in place neatly and form it into shape at the same time. So, how to preform....

 

I still have some parts from my earlier attempt at making the buffer plates from styrene... so that was the right shape.  I cut the top of a scrap one, and glued the ciggy paper around the edge.  Add a few wrinkles and it starts to take shape.  This end will eventually be glued on to the vestibule face.

 

 

Now, all I had to do was form the front edge.  That had me for a few moments until I came up with the idea of using the buffer plate as my template - 'doh!

I glued some scrap basswood together to give about 7 mm thickness, and then sat the buffer plate on top of that. - I'm making it slightly longer so that I can get some nice wrinkling in place when it's all squeezed up to the right dimension.

 

 

With my temporary jig all set up, I simply wrapped the excess ciggy paper over the buffer plate as tight as I could, flattened it all down...

 

 

Super gloop was applied all over the front of the ciggy paper, then the other buffer plate was pressed on top of that one.  Remove the scrap basswodd and the first buffer plate and hey presto !   A buffer plate with a shroud all ready to go.

 

 

Followed by a quick visual test....

 

 

Looks good to me!   This, in combination with the bellows should look about as realistic as I'm going to get.

 

That will make fitting the buffer plates a lot easier, and once the cig paper is painted up, I think it is going to look fine.

 

It's nice when something goes right for a change isn't it.

 

 

(this will be the last update for a week or so as I'm going away on business yet again)

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by hendie