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Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage


hendie

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On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 22:57, bar side said:

 

Thats interesting.  With the number of Gresley full brakes about with striped out interior as works vans I am surprised they chose a Pullman.  I have a soft spot for Great Eastern stock & engines, and LNER / Gresley stuff by association.

 

Further to the use of PEGASUS in a film. This was the 1995 version of 'Richard III' and the sequence that PEGASUS appeared in was filmed at Battersea Power Station.

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Thanks for all the information Terry. It helps add some background to this build and it's always interesting when there's a connection to the subject.

 

Things have gone quite slowly this week.  I spent yesterday getting a work area all set up for my new lathe, only for it not to arrive.  It was placed on the truck for delivery at 5:40 am yesterday, the delivery depot is about 40 minutes from my house and they still didn't make it... bummer. At least I should have it by Monday evening though.

 

Some supplies arrived this week.  I took a chance, knowing that scale effect would play into this a lot, and ordered some mahogany, and birds eye maple veneer.  The mahogany as you can see in the background is completely unsuitable, having too much variation in color for the areas I'll be covering. The birds eye maple on the other hand is a possible contender based on this photo. I'm still not 100% sure if I'll use it and I'm a long way from getting to that point so I have plenty of time to consider options.

 

P1080005.jpg

 

One thing that was painless and easy was adding the big multi-colored valve, which adds a splash of color to an otherwise monotonous underside. I also added a small electrical box that is present on some photo's, and there's still another piece or two to add to this area later.

 

P1010001.jpg

 

Continuing with the bogies, I manufactured all the brake actuator assemblies (the triangular thingy shown here), which of course then meant that I had to manufacture something to hang them from - the big white cross member for instance. Again, more levers and wotnots to be added here later

 

P1070003.jpg

 

A bit later in the day and I've added the attachment brackets to the cross members, and made up the levers. Brake blocks are still in process of being cast in resin.

It's surprising how much goes into these bogies - every time I start going through my reference photo's I spy more bits that need to be added.

 

P1080006.jpg

 

At the top end of the levers, I've added nuts and bolts from the Meng set.  I can really recommend these as an addition to the modelers arsenal. I have found them useful on many occasions. 

This lot is almost ready to be fitted, but I need the lathe before I can assemble anything.  The wheel flange diameter needs reduced to stop them looking like pizza cutters before I can fit the axle boxes, which need fitted before I can fit the brake levers, which in turn need fitted before I can fit the brake blocks themselves..... one day...

 

P1080008.jpg

 

Switching things around, I went back to the valve and added some hoses - as luck would have it, I found some red and yellow wire that was just the right diameter to use, though it was an absolute pig to work with.  The wire would not hold it's shape at all. 

I have a bunch of different lead wires, but my largest diameter was just a smidgen too small for this - why would I have thought otherwise ?

 

P1080011.jpg

 

Believe it or not, this was the sum of around an hours worth of work... painful it was.  Now I'm not absolutely sure where those red and yellow hoses disappear off to. I am assuming it is to the air tank which is on the left, just out of shot in this photo, and again, no idea where the black hoses end up either. I may just terminate them somewhere under the chassis, in between the tanks and battery boxes.  Once it's the right way up, no-one will ever be able to tell what goes where anyway.

 

P1080014.jpg

 

Now I'm not sure if it is apparent in this photo, but it's blatantly obvious when it's in my hand....  I'll preface this by stating that I knew there was going to be a lot of work to prepare the side frames, being so long and flat....

You may (or may not) see that there are a bunch of sink marks corresponding to where I have glued channel on the inside face to add strength.  I think I'll be able to overcome this with some high build primer, a lot of sanding and some elbow grease. What I hadn't accounted for, and you can just see it in the fuzzy front end of this photo, is that the bottom edge of the side frame has curved slightly as the glue has done it's job.  Damn.

 

P1080015.jpg

 

It's going to take a couple of rounds of fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, ad infinitum to see if these are going to be usable.  Knowing there are potential issues ahead, is one thing, but finding them and figuring out how to deal with them is another thing.  Anyways, one way or another, this is going to work... somehow.

 

and now I'm off to wait for a lathe !

 

 

 

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Just...

 

Brilliant model making H

 

Too thin lead wire?

 

Add blooming gloopy acrylic rubbish paint and voila,  thicker wire

 

Airfix/Humbrol starter set rubbish is commended...

Edited by perdu
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Oooh I know this bit!

The red and yellow pipes are for the air brake system. The red is the brake pipe, and the yellow is the reservoir pipe. The red would be connected to the distributor and a brake hose at each end (with red fittings), and the yellow is connected to the reservoir tank, and also to a hose at each end (this time with yellow fittings). I have never seen the pipes on the underframe ever painted anything other than black (and quickly covered with a layer of grime after a couple of weeks in service anyway). A separate black pipe would go from the distributor to the brake cylinder(s).

 

HTH

Dave

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okay, I got bits of that.... the yellow hose will go to the reservoir tank - easy peasy.  The two black hoses (at the top of the distributor) will go from the distributor to the brake cylinders.   Now, the red hose - you mention a brake hose at each end with red fittings.... where exactly does that connect ?   

*edit* Do you mean at the chassis ends for connecting to another carriage ?

 

I got my original info from the photo's in this post  about 3/4 way down

Edited by hendie
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Have you had any luck sorting the curved wall issue yet Hendie, or are you busy 'learning' the new lathe?

 

If you haven't tackled the glue penetration bends yet how about slurping some more thin Tamiya extrathin on the stiffeners and applying reverse bending for a while?

If it softens enough it could eliminate most of the bend and straighten up

 

 

 

Or maybe ruin it...   :(

 

OK carry on with plan B

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3 hours ago, perdu said:

Have you had any luck sorting the curved wall issue yet Hendie, or are you busy 'learning' the new lathe?

 

 

busy learning the new lathe Bill, mostly taking it apart, cleaning, lubricating, and then trying to get it all back together, aligned and running smoothly.  It will probably take me a couple of weeks to get it to where it needs to be.

I did turn down a set of wheels last night, taking about 3mm off the overall diameter and they look much, much better for it.

 

The side frames are playing with my head a bit. I'm not happy with them (and I must have cut about a dozen sets so far). Another styrene forest bites the dust.

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and so it begins, or at least, this phase of things.

 

P1120003.jpg

 

 

I couldn't resist trying it out.  The only mod so far, has been the incorporation of a cheapie quick change tool post holder, though I have lots more things planned for the future.

 

Sadly, this weekend will be spent on getting the lathe up to standard.   Out of the box, it's certainly workable and probably as accurate as I need it to be for anything I am doing. But since I now have it, I may as well try and spruce it up a bit, get rid of backlash, try and lap the gibs etc to see if I can increase the accuracy and make movement a bit smoother.

 

 

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Great looking piece of kit the lathe, happy times with it. Have you looked at some of the close grained fruit wood veneers? There might just be something that looks closer to scale, maybe pear or applewood? Have a look on the dollshouse furniture sites.

 

Colin

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I'd seriously love that...if I had room for it, happy turning Hendie

 

Also I'd consider looking at some wood effect decals like the ones dr gn used on his wonderful Mosquito model

 

Not sure where he got them from but I can always ask him if you like, been a while since we last had a natter

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thanks guys, I'll look into those.

 

Last night turned into a bit of a bummer.  I was turning the 3rd set of wheels when one of the wheels started spinning on the axle - they're only held on by plastic grommets.    No problem I thought, I'll change the chuck jaws over from internal to external and I can grip the outer diameter of the wheel.

 

For those that don't know, and as I only just found out,  each lathe chuck comes with two sets of jaws matched to the chuck.  Each jaw location on the chuck is marked and each jaw is marked accordingly.  I have a 3 jaw chuck, so each jaw should be marked 1, 2, & 3 - simple ?

 

No ! for the external jaws some numptie packed a set of jaws marked 1, 2, & 2 !!!

 

So, now I have the option of returning it (if I still have the packing materials) all the way back to California and waiting for a new one to be delivered so that would probably take the best part of two weeks, or forking out for another chuck, probably $100 or so.

I'm trying to get them to send me just a replacement chuck with the correct jaws, but I don't hold out much hope

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I suggest you persevere with getting them to send you what you paid for, why beggar about repacking and waiting

Does the great land of the free allow the piffinabout like that of the poor old purchaser?

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Actually, they're pretty good over here when it comes to customer service.  I don't think I've ever made a complaint and been left unsatisfied (so far)

I'll certainly try to get them to send just the part(s) I need.

 

That aside, I'm going to try and get the wheels done somehow this weekend, so if I do have to send it back, I'll have something to work on while I'm awaiting the replacement. The wheels are the only thing holding me back at the moment

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Oh what a saga these wheels have been. 

Turning the wheels down o the lathe was fairly easy, even for a cludge like me.  Painting them was a different matter.

 

I decided to try a different route in painting from the method I used before. - I hadn't finished all 4 sets of wheels so decided to do the entire lot at the same time.  I began by giving them a coat of etch primer - which then decided to play up on me by cracking in certain areas.  My fault I think - I used a rattle can and it went on a bit thick

 

P1150007.jpg

 

So, all the cracks were sanded back and I gave all the wheels a coat of satin white. No masking - just white all over the things.  Then I tried my crazy method of masking.... I laid out some masking tape on my cutting mat, and used a circle cutter to cut a disc the same as the OD of the white.  It took me a few attempts and quite a bit of masking tape to get the diameter right, but once I was there, it was easy. The masking disc was then placed over the wheels and the wheels sprayed black.

 

P1190008.jpg

 

Of course, this meant that the inner section of the wheels were still white, so using the circle cutter, I cut some more discs - this time the ID of the white section. These were a lot more difficult to place but I soon got into a rhythm of sorts.

 

P1200009.jpg

 

With the white section of the wheels now masked off, I sprayed black again.... leaving a nice white ring around the wheels.

 

P1200010.jpg

 

Okay, they're not perfect, but neither are the one on the 1:1 - it's a train isn't it ?  

There's been a little bit of bleed here and there, but once the paint hardens I think I can toothpick the stuff off fairly easily.  And considering you only see about 30% of the wheel, if there are any poor areas, they'll get placed behind the bogie frame so you can't see them !

I hope to get that all done tomorrow, and then get a clear coat on them for protection.  When that is done, I can then start assembling the bogies at long last.  It's only been what ? two years or so!

 

... and the lathe people are playing silly beggars now.  So I may have to return the lathe for a replacement. If they want to pay shipping for sending a 90 lb package all the way across the USA twice, that's fine by me - I got the wheels done so I can live without the lathe for a few weeks (even although it's a lot of fun!)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by hendie
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Why do I have to clear out this stupid editor every time I go to make a post ? Talk about buggy software !  Amateurs!

 

Well, things went pretty good today, or at least they have so far.  The wheels cleaned up nicely, or nice enough, so they were then given a coat of Alclad clear matt which went on nicely and provided a nice, and hopefully tough finish.

 

P1210002.jpg

 

Then came the moment of truth, a real milestone in the build.... it was time to fit the wheels permanently!

Paint was scraped off the inside of the bogies so that the axle boxes were being glued to the brass frame, and not just to a skin of paint.  I used the E6000 which I am really coming to love. It grabs within a few minutes, leaving plenty of time for positioning, and when cured it seems to be very strong, but it is also very flexible.  Obviously, that's not good for every job, but there are times that comes in handy.

Anyhoos, I slabbered some glue on the inside of the bogies, then gently placed each set of wheels in place and pressed them home once satisfied with the position.

Here, we now have two sets of bogies, all ready to go... well, at least ready to roll.

 

P1210003.jpg

 

The little bit of wheel left protruding through the axles box will be covered with these little caps - these are just pushed on for effect. They'll get fitted later.

 

P1210004.jpg

 

Shown in a slightly better light in this shot. With all the handling and footering about, there's a few places of touch up needed, but overall, I'm very pleased with the way these have turned out.

 

P1210005.jpg

 

Now the wheels are on I can begin to fit the brake assemblies. The resin brake pads can clearly be seen here. It looks like my frames are a bit oversize.  I can get them to fit so I'll have a think about whether to remake them a bit smaller or not - as when everything is the right way up, very little can actually be seen.

 

P1210006.jpg

 

For example, from the side, this is as much of the brake assemblies as you are going to see. - 1/2 a brake pad !

 

P1210008.jpg

 

So, good progress today, but now the family chores need seen to :angry:

 

 

 

 

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This is looking rather amazing Hendie

 

If you were making more bogies I'd suggest remaking those brakes but....

 

;)

 

'nuff said

 

This editing panel drives me to distraction too, but there's an upside

 

It stops me commenting more in people's builds so there's far less wibble to meander through every day for the rest of you 

 

:)

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2 hours ago, perdu said:

If you were making more bogies I'd suggest remaking those brakes but....

 

I think you are right Bill.  The only part of the frame that can be seen from the end is the horizontal connector bar, so it looks like they'll be getting used. 

I'm glad I remade the brake pads though - the new ones look much better

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Found you!

 

Trains.................. Yawn, whatever next

 

Some five hours of my life that I wont get back and I 'm up to date. The hook was the personal link, followed by your usual flowing list of imaginative solutions to unheard of problems, all presented in a humourus fashion. Even when you want to bag your head against the bench and we can feel your pain.

 

I'm loath to suggest it but with your twisted mind you could give J T Rowling a run for her money ............

 

On a more positive note. Re your mahogany veneers, I would venture to suggest Mahogany is never going to give a scale appearance because of its large open grain. For what its worth I would suggest Maple, tight grain and even finish. This can then be stained to the desired colour

 

Kev, in for the looooooooooong haul

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44 minutes ago, longshanks said:

Re your mahogany veneers, I would venture to suggest Mahogany is never going to give a scale appearance because of its large open grain.

 

Kev, you are absolutely correct, as I soon found out for myself.  I'll look into the maple.

The one thing I haven't considered yet is the thickness, and also the stability of material I am going to have to work with - that may play into the final choice.

 

I'm trying to keep everything as true to scale as possible... external dimensions, internal dimensions etc. External dimensions are fixed. They are what they are.  The Internal dimensions, I may have a little leeway with, but not much if I want to include all the detail and keep compartment sizes reasonably accurate - so that means that the carriage wall thickness is going to have to be pretty close to a scale version of the 1:1, yet still be strong enough structurally to hold it all together.

 

54 minutes ago, longshanks said:

I'm loath to suggest it but with your twisted mind you could give J T Rowling a run for her money ............

 

If only you'd been able to read the weekly volleyball newsletter "The Curiously Peculiar Chronicle" written by my fine upstanding alter ego Hieronymus Receptacle II, late of this parish. Some of those ran to 14+ pages and were a sort of "If Terry Pratchett had written Viz as an educational tool for Americans."

 

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6 minutes ago, hendie said:

 Hieronymus Receptacle II,

Hmmm, I may have gone to school with his Sister.

It was of course a Girls school.

But I lied about my age...

 

Nice bogies, Sir!

Keep rolling along.

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25 minutes ago, hendie said:

If only you'd been able to read the weekly volleyball newsletter "The Curiously Peculiar Chronicle" written by my fine upstanding alter ego Hieronymus Receptacle II, late of this parish. Some of those ran to 14+ pages and were a sort of "If Terry Pratchett had written Viz as an educational tool for Americans."

 

I rest my case..........

 

I've had a quick look, its Marquetry Veneers you need to look for, seen some around 0.6mm thick. I would suggest speaking to the potential supplier as wood veneers vary as to where / how cut for grain pattern. For scale appearance I think you need close, straight grain. Light in colour so that it readily accepts stain

 

Kev

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Thanks Kev, I'll dig into that over the next few weeks.

 

There was limited time available in the hendershop today in between house chores and being a taxi driver for the daughter. Still, we take what we can get, don't we ?

 

Apologies for the rather blurry photo but here I present for your delectation, a (except for paint) brake assembly, complete with hanger brackets and wotnots.  Each one of these little blighters is made up of 18 separate components - I really must count up how many individual components there are in one complete bogie some day. I reckon there's at least 200 parts in there.

 

P1220001.jpg

 

This shot gives a better view of how it all fits in there.

 

P1220002.jpg

 

I still have to add a couple of blocks for the hanger brackets to attach to but that's easy peasy.

Then I realized that I have only made enough frames to hang brake blocks on the outside ends of each bogie. 'doh!  I need to make another 4 frames to hang the brakes on the wheels towards the center of the bogie. Still, It should take too long now that I have a rough idea of what I'm doing.

 

A quick coat of paint and voila..... well, dry fitted 'cos I couldn't wait to see what it looked like.  I let the camera have a little flash to keep it happy and try and bring out the detail a bit.

 

P1220004.jpg

 

I think I'll need to do something to break up the monotonous black tones in there. Some weathering wouldn't go amiss on the brake blocks and the frame supporting them.

I think I'm beginning to get fed up saying "at least I'll know it's in there"!  :D

 

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" I think I'm beginning to get fed up saying "at least I'll know it's in there"!  "

 

You may be, but I guarantee that I and countless other observers are very glad to be able to say

 

"Hey we know what's in there, fabuloso!"

 

I can believe that about how many parts go into each assembly, I get thirteen in the tailwheel undercarriage on my Wessexes

 

Nuts ain't we?

 

:)

 

 

wibble wibble  :P

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