Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[hacker]

try evil bay

 

 

[bentwaters81tfw]

How hot are USPS on foreign mail? Is there anything to stop tins of pain coming in to the country?  

[perdu]

The brown, ooooops sorry Umber is rather like the old Triumph SiennaBrown that my old Dolomite 1850HL was painted in

 

Tomorrow in daylight I will seek out the patch of Sienna on my garage wall that I protected the wall with and compare it to your photosample

 

You might find a similar car colour in US colOr ranges

 

I'll have a think about the custard too now but as hacker suggests try the bay

 

oh yes beware Triumph browns, they changed the range in the mid seventies and Sienna, beautiful Sienna was chucked out for some poor old crappisch Maple Brown colour

[hendie]

35 minutes ago, hacker said:

try evil bay

 

scoured it back and forth, no luck, apart from 1 can of Rover Russet Brown at 15 GBP with 61 GBp shipping..... not happening!

 

36 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

How hot are USPS on foreign mail? Is there anything to stop tins of pain coming in to the country?  

 

not hot at all. I order paints from abroad all the time.

36 minutes ago, perdu said:

oh yes beware Triumph browns, they changed the range in the mid seventies

 

duly noted

 

 

I think I have spotted a couple of close enough colors on ebay.   Trouble is, I need to buy them to see just how close they are so this could become expensive.  There's no such beastie as a model shop anywhere near me

[perdu]

Concentrate on getting a close colour match to the cream until I see if I do still have a sprayed patch of Sienna tomorrow

Deck tan with white and grey might get close

[bentwaters81tfw]

So if I can get the paints in the UK delivered by Royal Snail, what is to stop me mailing them on the you?

 

[hacker]

11 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

So if I an get the paints in the UK delivered by Royal Snail, what is to stop me mailing them on the you?

 

politics

 

[bentwaters81tfw]

3 minutes ago, hacker said:

politics

 

I'm talking practicality. If they are sealed up I can declare them as acrylic or pots of strawberry jam.

[hendie]

5 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

I'm talking practicality. If they are sealed up I can declare them as acrylic or pots of strawberry jam.

 

thanks for the offer Bentwaters but I'll try and see if I can get this sorted out here.  I'd rather only call on help from folks as a last resort

 

30 minutes ago, perdu said:

Concentrate on getting a close colour match to the cream until I see if I do still have a sprayed patch of Sienna tomorrow

 

I think I may have one here on the bay

[larchiefeng]

If you find the right color from a car like the Rover then get the year and make of the car and then go to a website like automotivetouchup.com or expresspaint.com and put in the info and see if it's in their database. You should be able to get anything from a touch up bottle to spray cans, quarts and gallons of the paint.

[bentwaters81tfw]

OK. The offer stands.

[perdu]

That looks a fair comparison but don't forget there are millions of versions of all the colours out there

 

There may be even better colour matches

 

If there are we'll find 'em

[Brandy]

The cream looks very similar to Clear Doped Linen. PM me your addy and I'll paint samples of RFC, French, German and Russian CDL on a piece of sheet stock and post it to you so you can compare them....

 

Ian

[perdu]

OK step away from the interweb and 'go to town'

 

I understand that this isn't always easy in Bigland USA but its what you need

 

I'm told ( by Americans ) there are auto stores there that can mix paint to suit your needs, Pep Boys is one such purveyor I've heard of through my MG buddies

 

I have checked my thirty plus year old Sienna sample (mad random paint spray stripe on kitchen door... I was not popular)

 

To my eye Sienna does look exactly like the broon on your Pullman, go to a car store and ask if they can colour match that in a aerosol

 

Usually not too expensive in the scheme of things

 

I walked the picture in there using my tablet 'pooter, looks a great match

[larchiefeng]

I may be wrong but, I've never heard of Pep Boys doing any paint matching at the store level. It's just too specialized for them to do in the store. About the only spray paint that, I've ever seen there is Duplicolor and usually only some current model colors and primer.

You would have to go to an automotive paint supplier or a body shop but, even then I'm not sure about getting it into a spray can. I do know that the online companies like the ones that I mentioned prior supply the paint in all forms because, I've used them myself. 

Some of the cream colors would probably be from cars of the 50's mainly because they were used in two tone paint schemes and the like.

Good luck and good hunting!

[perdu]

I was, I admit using an example given by a friend who lives there

 

And nothing he tells me makes sense every time.

 

But the essential bit is that auto shops can match to colours you bring them, over here if I want 'the colour' in a rattle can its not a problem for the mixer to put it into a spray can

[hendie]

thanks everyone for the suggestions.... all good stuff.

 

I did look at the two web sites listed above by larchiefeng and surprise surprise, I cannot locate either of the two colors I need in there.  I did find them on Paintref.com (I think that was the site), but they only provide reference codes for the colors and do not actually provide any paint.

 

I think my best bet at this point is to take a hike down to the automotive shops, of which there area an unbelievable number locally - car stuff is BIG around here - and see what colors they have sitting on the shelves in the hope that there is a close match somewhere.   I can also take a punt on buying a few of the colors I have identified on line in the hope that I get lucky.

 

However, in the mean time I have other priorities - I went to pick up my car from the repair shop last Friday and had to reject it.... body panels misaligned (just about every panel on the darn vehicle), panels missing, panels not securely fitted and a bunch of other shoddy workmanship. So they are now stripping the vehicle down again and having a second attempt.  The insurance company is also playing up refusing to pay for car rental etc.  so I am dealing with my lawyers (at least this is the USA and litigation is a national pastime here so I can sue the pants off everyone), insurance companies, and the repair shop.  Oh happy days.  I am also looking at suing the insurance company for "diminished value" as we purchased a "certified" car (i.e. pay a premium) and I reckon we've lost somewhere between $5K & $10K in resale value as we only had the car for a couple of weeks before it got slammed.

[larchiefeng]

So, it's a safe bet that, you won't be asking that body shop to do any color matching for you?

[hendie]

4 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

So, it's a safe bet that, you won't be asking that body shop to do any color matching for you?

 

actually, their color matching was the best aspect of their work so far, albeit, they screwed up on the polishing front in a few places.

 

And this was a company that I received good word of mouth referrals for - with apparently many, many highly satisfied customers commenting on independent review sites. . 

Unfortunately, I believe they are never going to get it acceptable, there was just too much damage to begin with. It should have been totaled.  By the time all work has been completed, I fully expect the repair bill to be greater than the trade in value of a similar spec vehicle in excellent condition.

[hendie]

the gods have been shining on me this week... found some paint, and got the car back !    9 weeks in the repair shop, and three attempts to get me to take it back. The good news is that they finally made a decent job of it - now it's up to the lawyers to do their job.   The trouble is... if the gods are shining on me this week, they must have some really awful stuff in line for me over the next few weeks - but I'll take it when I can.

 

I started off by taking a deep breath... there had been some talk over in flying objects land about the tidiness of work spaces.  Our own @Fritag had been commenting on how untidy his work-space was - now this is untidy.  There's a train in there somewhere believe it or not.  Now I just have to find it.   So I tidied up.

 

 

I thought that the bathroom area was complete ready for assembly, then I remembered that I still have a mirror to make, and the small light that overhangs the mirror.   This brought the lathe into play again, and I turned this little lamp shaped thingy from aluminum rod.  I still have an escutcheon plate to make up for it - another job for the lathe, and figure out what shape to make the standoff.   I still haven't figured out what to do about the ceiling panel yet, and there would be lights in that also.... not to fret... plenty of time yet.

 

 

A lot of the week was spent preparing wood paneling for the interior - scrub with wire wool, stain, dry, scrub with wire wool, detack, clear coat, and follow up with a light run over with the wire wool again.  All fairly simple stuff, but time consuming and necessary if I want paneling on the interior of this coach.

 

I also discovered while pouring over my drawings that there's an electrical cabinet at each corridor end !       When I made the last one, it would have been so easy to cut the wood a little bit longer then cut two from the finished article. Now I have to make another complete cabinet from scratch... actually, I am making two this time as it's just as easy. I'll then select the best two cabinets to install in the interior.

I have also decided to remake the vestibule ends as I was not happy with the seam lines - I couldn't get them straight enough.  I'm going to use a different construction method this time around which I believe will achieve better results - hopefully this weekend.

 

Now onto the ground breaking earth shattering news item of the week.... Paint !!!   I got some paint !

After literally months of searching online both in the USA and in the UK, I found some paint for the Umber and Cream from a couple of UK suppliers.  Then found that one would not send stuff overseas, another wouldn't accept overseas credit cards... then when I eventually found one that was willing, Royal Mail rules made it impossible.  Yet more jiggery pokery ensued including lining up friends and family coming over this year for holidays to bring said paints before realizing that it was illegal to fly with aerosols.  I tried all the local automotive stores, and Walmart with no luck.

Then... last weekend I was in our Ace friendly hardware store when I spotted two likely looking candidates, and quickly snapped them up.

I did a quick test spray on some spare side frames (I have LOTS !) and am extremely overjoyed at the color match.  Okay it doesn't look great in this photo, but in the flesh, I think it's a really good match, particularly the "cream"

 

 

So, if anyone in the USA ever decides to build a UK Pullman these are the colors you want: Ace own brand Chocolate Brown, and Navajo White

 

 

Of course, I discovered these colors just after I had ordered a batch of possible candidates. Sod's law innit ?

 

Over the last few months I have been communicating with Terry Bye, the editor of the Pullman & CIWL News, a very knowledgeable and helpful chap.  On discussing the Pullman colors, Terry explained that there is no "off-the-shelf" Pullman color, and each batch is mixed when required. This results in (as you can imagine) some variance in the actual colors which is shown to excellent effect in this photo by Martin Allen (supplied by Terry).  I'd say there's three different shades of "umber" shown there. (Note, the Humbrol attempt is not even close to any of them)

 

 

Photo: Copyright Martin Allen 2017

 

The Chocolate Brown I am using I think is closer to the Umber on the extreme left of this photo. It's certainly within the "range" of umbers that I have seen, now that I look more closely at photo's.

I also noticed that the hardware store had another brown color - very close to the chocolate color but just a tad darker.  I may splash out this weekend and buy a tin just to see how different it is when applied.  For $3 or so, I've nothing to lose.

 

The outcome of all this is that my months long search is finally over, and I can proceed with the next phase of the build now. 

The last major hurdle will be getting Pullman decals in 1/32 scale.  I've seen plenty of Pullman decals but none in 1/32 or Gauge 1.  The pin-striping I think I can manage via other means but the PULLMAN text, the name plate, and the coat of arms are going to test my mettle in the near future.

 

onwards and onwards....

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by hendie

[Nigel Heath]

Superb work on that light, good to see your new toy is getting plenty of action. Congrats on the paint, looks great.

[perdu]

Lamp shaped thingy?

 

Does this mean you're not going to have a bulb in it?

 

Oh shock, horror probe!

 

But

 

As Nigel says lovely work, which I almost missed in the excitement over finding The Paint at long last

 

The carriage in the centre of the picture looks very Triumph Sepia Brown to me, the fade out is very clear in that picture

 

[Bigdave22014]

Bit late as you've got the paint sorted, but I recall having a rake of these in the carriage sidings once, and a UPS van parked along side to make a delivery to the depot. The van was pretty much the same colour as some of the Pullmans.

Sorry I didn't remember sooner.

 

Outstanding work on the interior so far. Keep up the work.

[Robin Lous]

such a delight to watch this come together!

 

Robin 

[RichO]

If your interested, I can direct you to a site that has small lights for lamp.  It might be fun to see the carriage all lit up from the inside.  Just a thought.