Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[hendie]

20 hours ago, limeypilot said:

The Indian wiring was one of his well known not-quite-pc moments, although I see nothing wrong...he was calling it as he saw it.....

 

Aaahhhhhhh... now I got you. Sorry, my mind was off on other tangents.

 

Well, this weekend did not turnout as planned.  If you ever had the urge to spend a Saturday wading and searching though mudflats/swamp in search of a stolen iphone.... don't bother, it's not much fun and not worth the effort.  Some scumbag low-life stole my wife's iphone from her office desk on Friday. We only noticed on Saturday and by that time the battery was dying, but we thought we'd give it a try anyway - of course, we couldn't locate the darned thing.  Much fun was had by nobody I can tell you.

 

On a lighter note, and back to things of a toilet nature. This is the ferrule I turned on the lathe to tidy up the entrance for the cistern pipe going into the bulkhead.

 

 

Followed by the "Vacant/Empty" indicator on the toilet door.  Believe it or not I spent an entire evening getting those door handles and scratch plates made up. The handle itself is stainless steel wire, hammered over in a vise to get as tight a curve as I could, then spent forever, well, not quite forever but quite a while, filing the end of the door handle down to a nice taper.

The scratch plate was a bear to get done. I started off with bare metal foil - didn't like it, then tried aluminum foil - didn't like it, then tried 0.002" brass sheet painted with flat aluminum. Guess what ? Yup, didn't like that either.  I ended up going with the 0.002" brass sheet, covered in bare metal foil.  I'm not ecstatic about the scratch plate but I think it's at least passable.  The other thing I'm not too enamored with is the architrave surrounding the door. However, it's slightly less than 1mm in width, and I don't think there's any way I can achieve a true routed architrave look with wood at this scale. - unless someone knows different and can let me in on the secret !

 

 

and this of course, is t'other side of the toilet door.   Now I look at it, I think I could have positioned the vacant indicator slightly better, but I don't fancy making this all up again.

 

 

The next section leading on from the toilet is the private dinette area. This is the view from the corridor area.- I think the basswood grain is working fine. It's still a bit large scale, but once everything is in place, I don't think the scale of the grain will be so noticeable.

 

 

A quick and dirty dry fit of everything so far... That spacing for the chairs is just about right, though now I see them in place, and checking the photo's above, it looks like I need to cut down the length of the arms to just over half what they are now.  I may also reduce the size of the wings - not quite sure just yet.  I've halted production on the chairs until I can make my mind up.

 

 

The next big problem challenge is going to be figuring out how to deal with the dinette/corridor wall seen above.  The basswood scales out to be pretty much the right thickness for the wall, however, in that wall, I now have to fit two windows, with some nice beading all around them - and another door and some architrave. Then roller blinds....

The basswood is 1/32" thick.  I bought some clear acrylic for the main windows but that is also 1/32" thick.  So it's kind of hard to try and have the windows inset.

I may try sandwiching the window between two layers of basswood and hacking out the wood to "inlay" the window, then phnargle the width of the corridor ... stay tuned....

 

The last up for today's session is the electrical cabinet, also situated in the corridor.  This proved to be a little bit problematic.  The cabinet is the same height as the corridor, and has a nice radiused end to it.  I built and shaped the initial form using a couple of blocks of balsa, intending to use basswood as the final form.

My first attempts at just bending the basswood around the radius ended up with the basswood (not unexpectedly) splitting.  I then tried sawing vertical slots on the backside of the panel - also snapped.  Eventually I arrived at a solution where I soaked the basswood in IPA (it was handy) - and that seems to have done the trick. I could then form the basswood panel around the balsa former and get it glued in position.  Mahogany stain will be done once the cabinet is cured and a bit more solid.

 

 

Now, regarding the paint.... I fired up the airbrush today and tried coating my paint mules with the ivory/cream color.  It sprayed like pebble dash. It was awful.

I had a good dose of flow improver, and some retarder in there too, but the Humbrol paint was utterly crap.  Now, it's acrylic, so I used IPA as the thinner - which I always do with no problems (usually).  I'm wondering if there's something in the Humbrol acrylic paint that isn't compatible with IPA, or whether it's just totally crap paint (which I wouldn't rule out based on may threads I've seen regarding their products)

If it is the paint, then I'm in trouble.  I don't think anyone makes a color close the the Pullman Umber and Cream. At least in all my searching I haven't been able to find any alternative colors from other manufacturers.

[perdu]

Try water, no clever chemicals nor nuffink, I've sprayed Humbrol acrylics with just that

 

Oh yes and with a tad of Tamiya thinners but that was less useful too

 

Seriously the only other thing I've heard of is using windscreen washing liquid

 

I haven't tried it but I have used it to clean my airbrush after spraying Humbrol on my Jaguar trio

 

I read that the colour didn't 'stick'

[Pete in Lincs]

21 hours ago, hendie said:

I don't think there's any way I can achieve a true routed architrave look with wood at this scale

Highly trained Japanese termites.

 

It's all looking very impressive, Hendie.

 

I've used screen washer fluid with acrylics before.

Mostly Tamiya I must admit though. Worth a try.

[hendie]

So, an incredibly busy week at work this week meant that there was little time for modeling, and what time there was, was crawling along at a snails pace.  The good news is that I should get my car back from the repair shop next week... at last.

 

Anyhoos.. on to the subject at hand.  I started with the vestibule/corridor partition - cutting two windows and using some clear packaging I had lying around.

 

 

and then I stopped !  The windows on this partition are inset with a nice bead around the frame to hold them in place. The basswood is 0.03125" thick, and the clear plastic was about 0.025 or so.  There was nothing left as a ledge to glue the "beading" onto.  Cue the damn why didn't I think about this beforehand music.  I searched around and did eventually find some clear packaging that was around 0.010" thick but it was full of striations from the vacuum forming process - no good.  Well, I could probably have used it, but even although once all in place, you would never be able to see it - it would have bugged me no end.  I've now ordered some 0.010" clear so the windows will have to wait.

 

So, to keep myself amused, I decided to carry on with the electrical cabinet that sits at one end of the corridor.  Once the basswood sheet was firmly stuck in place, I cut the part to length, then added some flat strip on the top and bottom.  That was then sanded to have a small overlap, then I used a very thin strip of basswood glued just below that to give the impression of some kind of molding around the cabinet.  The "hinges" are actually the gill cover spacers left over from my Lysander build.  Door handle from brass rod again, and scratch plate from brass sheet.  I have to keep checking my references as some of this carriage was chrome fittings and some areas were brass.

 

 

I did try various methods of setting a door into the basswood, but really wasn't happy with any of the results. For this cabinet, I decided that I would merely give the impression of a door by fitting the door hardware.

I think the scratchplate is passable in this instance, but I'd like something better for the rest of the carriage.  I have a drawing made up for window frames and various other pieces which I intend to have etched in brass - probably professionally as much as I'd like to do the PE myself,  I don't think this is the project to learn photo-etching on.

 

The folks that pay (or not!) to travel on this carriage, particularly if you've forked out for the private dinette area, no doubt like a bit of privacy, and that is accomplished in the dinette by three roller blinds fitted over the windows.... well, where else ?

So, three roller blind covers were hacked from scraps (of which there are many!) of basswood.

 

 

All stained up and nowhere to go!   I can't fit the roller blind covers until the windows and frames are secured in place. (Well, I could but that would just be making it harder than it already is for myself later - now why would I go and do that then ?)

Truth be told, that panel above is my second go round - on the first, I had mitred one edge to match up with the bathroom wall, and when I cut the windows out, I had the mitre facing the wrong way so the windows were cut in the lower half of the panel... 'doh!

 

 

The finish looks a bit rough in the shots above as I'm still only halfway through that piece.  I like to give the basswood a quick rub with wire wool, then stain and leave the part to dry.  The staining raises the grain slightly, so I give it another rub with wire wool, and stain again. After that, I give a heavy coat of Alclad clear semi flat, rub that back when dry, then give it another coat of semi  flat.  By that time the wood has a nice sheen to it... plus lots of teensy pieces of wire wool unless I'm careful.

 

While in the main, the finish inside the carriage is mahogany, there are birds eye maple highlights, or accents. Every panel join is covered by a section of mahogany inlaid with the birds eye maple.  There's no way on earth I could even begin to attempt such a part. so I have to fudge it.  As far as I am concerned, the basswood has a very similar color to the maple - okay there's no birds eyes, but you'd never see them at this scale anyway.

My first attempt at replicating this cover piece is done using a strip of basswood, sanded quarter round at the edges, then I used a strip of tamiya tape down the center before I applied stain.  It's a reasonable pass - though this is about my fourth attempt as the stain kept creeping under the tape.  I may investigate other methods before I pick a winner.

 

 

.. and that's about as much as I have accomplished this week.  Today was the first grass cutting of the season (Arrrrrrrghhhh), so by the time I had cut the grass, changed the oil and the filters, and done the edging, I had spent about 6 hours out there.. and I still have to do the weeding and spread the weedkiller.  I hate gardening.

 

On that note I shall leave you with the obligatory here's where we've got to dry fit shots.... (I really need to get that bathroom floor cut out and in place)

 

 

and a shot down the corridor...

 

 

Next week promises to be even busier... meeting with some suppliers for "business alignment" discussions.  They haven't lived up to expectations, so if they don't align, they won't be getting any more business.

And that's the easy part of the week !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by hendie

[perdu]

Yeah

 

That's not so bad........

 

 

 

 

 

I do mean

 

Wow

 

Looks very good

 

Would staining the uncoloured strips first stop the creep under, I wonder?

 

Poetry?

Intended?

 

Moi?

 

No probably not

 

😕

[hendie]

5 hours ago, perdu said:

Would staining the uncoloured strips first stop the creep under, I wonder?

 

Poetry?

 

Poetry, yes... Sense... No.    At least not to to my addled brain this early in the morning. 

 

Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough in my last post.  The mahogany/birds eye inlay is made from a single basswood strip of 5mm width.  The basswood strip is sanded/micromeshed to get as good a surface as I can for the tape to stick to

I then cut a 2mm wide strip of tamiya tape and apply that down the center of the basswood strip. That tape is then burnished down before I apply any stain. Stain is applied by wiping only in a longitudinal path along the length of the strip.

But in most cases some stain still seems to creep under the tape.

 

I probably would get a better seam if I made the cover panel from 3 separate strips, but at 5mm wide with a 2mm center strip, the side pieces would be only 1.5mm wide and the thought of cutting all those strips and then trying to get a decent and uniform joint was a bit off putting.  I may yet try though... never say never in this game.

 

[Brandy]

Looking good Hendie. I can 't say I have any mind bending tips on how to achieve the staining, other than what you're already doing. 

 I didn't get any modelling done today, spent the whole afternoon clearing up leaves and weeding.....I'm as keen as you are on the gardening front......

 

Ian

[perdu]

Sorry H its my not making my addled thinking clear enough, causing confusion

 

I'll have another go

 

I realise you want to replicate two different surfaces on one piece of basswood, not the problem, what seems to be happening is the stain creeping below the masking

 

We get this often enough anyway with paint masking so is there's chance you could apply the masking and pre-colouring effect on the wood?

 

I often put a coat of Clear ( substitute any other finishing material here) before I mask canopies, then before I colour coat it I will give the masked edge another whiz over with Clear which then seals the joints before the colour

 

Could you varnish the entire strip in clear then mask it and stain the wood as before?

 

The varnish will prevent creep-under and the stain can do its work

Edited April 10, 2017 by perdu

[hendie]

Ah. now I see what you were getting at...  Unfortunately, not in this case Bill.

 

The wood stain I am using in this instance, is... ehhrrr... wood stain, not pre-colored varnish. So it needs unsealed wood in order for the stain to soak in.  If I clear coat the wood first, the stain will not take properly, if at all.

If I could get pre-cut strips of the right dimensions, it would be straightforward - stain two strips, then glue either side of an unstained piece.  Sadly, I do not seem to be able to get strips of the right dimensions.

 

I seem to remember a tool somewhere (for boat builders ?) that allows you to cut strips of repeatable widths - I must now head off for some t'intergoogling

[perdu]

I wonder if you could isolate the 'line' of each colour by slicing into it and placing a razor blade into the slots to isolate the stain from reaching into the lighter bit. 

 

* maybe Stanley type blades, they come in long and short lengths

 

Oh I'm just trying to think it through but you know, putting a veneer in might be the only way

 

[TheBaron]

I must visit here more often hendie.

 

I thoroughly enjoy the manner in which you talk us through your thought processes, it gives a great insight into your engagement with the various materials, one that always leaves me feeling enthused about building things, whether or not my own stuff's been going ok. 

Splendiferous!

Tony

 

 

[heloman1]

Nice work on the interior there Hendie, the veneer looks very convincing as do the seats.

 

Colin

[hendie]

thanks guys.  Things have been moving v e r y    s  l  o  w  l  y  this week. Between meetings, wining and dining suppliers, surgery and just life in general, I didn't really get much done, but did move forward just a tad...

The frames around the dinette windows put up a good fight.  I tried two or three different methods before settling on this one.  The window apertures were cut out and squared up to the best of my abilities. For reasons unbeknown to me, the windows looked all square on one side, but all looked slightly canted from the other side - or it could just be my eyes. I did measure everything several times before and after cutting, and there were some slight discrepancies in the widths, but it was in the region of 0.05 mm or thereabouts. I refuse to get carried away - less than 0.25mm is good enough for me, unless it's blatantly obvious.

 

Anyways.. my method.... well, after the apertures were cut, I then cut 2mm wide strips of basswood that had already been stained and clear coated. These were cut so that they were just snug in the window aperture, and each piece helped hold the adjacent piece in place.  In this photo, they are all flush on one side.

 

 

When it came time to glue them in place, I placed a spacer underneath so that I had roughly 1mm protruding from each side. Then. I placed a piece of scrap 1/32" basswood either side of the frame, and used a sanding stick to reduce the height of the protruding frame. I kept sanding until I could see sanding marks on the scrap. That told me that the frame was pretty even all the way around.

 

 

As can be seen (almost) here.  Poor quality photo but the camera just refused to focus.

 

 

Roller blind covers were up next. These were glued in place, then the whole thing given a clear coat, which looks terrible in this photo, but thankfully is nowhere near as bad looking in the flesh.

 

 

Due to the method I chose to make the frames, the windows became a lot more difficult to make up. There was no groove or inset for the windows to slide into - it was a butt joint up against the frame.  That meant I had to cut the windows (0.010" clear styrene) pretty darn close to the aperture size. Make the windows too tight and they would simply buckle in the opening.  Too loose and they would just fall out.  I was three for four... only one scrap window.

I also added some small sections of brass channel just under the windows to (i) act as retainers for the window blinds, and (ii) add a bit of visual interest.  I can't really remember if we did have catches under the windows but my tricky memory suggests that maybe we did.

 

 

Once the windows were nicely centered up I diluted some white glue and with a fine brush, I ran a bead around the frame on the front and back.  I find that diluting the white glue slightly helps it creep into the gaps, and I get the impression that it dries clearer as well, but I'm probably making that part up.

Not shown here, but on the reverse side, I added hinges using the same method I used for the electrical cabinet.

 

 

I still have the door handle and escutcheon (been trying to think of that word for days now) plate to fit, but I have to convince myself to pull the trigger on putting up the moolah to have some PE made up, so that could be a few weeks away yet.

Then the available free time was finished up with making a small push to flush button for the bathroom, seen here to the left of the WC.

 

 

and there we have this weeks somewhat less than stellar progress, but progress nonetheless. 

I have really been trying to get to a painting stage for the side frames, but life keeps conspiring against me. Maybe next week will be the week...

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Less than stellar?

Looks well worth the effort to me.

And it's a lot more than I've managed to get done too!

(Though it has been a 56 hour work week. That doesn't help)

[perdu]

Its no use telling us you're unhappy with this H, we know real 'getting somewhere' when we see it you know

 

Lovely work round those windows, they look the business and you should feel flushed with success at the little button, it is very realistic

 

10 and a half out of 10    ✔

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by perdu

[hendie]

yet another micro update here at the Hendie Rail Works.

 

The "azure" blue of the vanity top in the bathroom had been bothering me, so finally, I kicked my own butt into action and mixed up another batch of paint, this time a much lighter shade of blue.  I think this looks much better and is more in keeping with the overall color scheme.  The chromed faucet also got glued in place.

 

 

Not shown in this episode, but I also made a start on the bathroom floor. I selected the portion I'll be using, marked it out, and that got a coat of semi gloss clear to take the shine of the photographic paper.  The WC also got a coat of satin white though I forgot to go clicky on that particular piece.

 

Still working on the bathroom area, I made up the hand rail that goes across the window. Stainless steel wire, and two aluminum mounting plates.  I see from this photo that there's still a slight bend in the wire.  I'll sort that out later (if I remember!)

 

 

I also made up the remaining bathroom hardware - the towel rail, and the toilet roll holder. So the lathe saw some decent action today. AFter those were made up, I gave them all a quick coating of Alclad chrome and they are now drying off.

 

 

Once the chrome has cured, I'll give them a quick coating of aqua clear.

That means that the bathroom stuff is almost finished. All that's left is the window - I'll need to experiment a little to see what kind of frosted finish I can achieve on clear styrene, and then there's 4 small panels to box in the window, but I can't really do anything with that until the bathroom is fitted along with the side frames.

 

Other work for today included some not very photogenic stuff - the side frames got a good buffing with 1000 grade wet and dry, followed by priming with alclad grey primer.  That showed up some minor flaws which I'll need to deal with before attempting any final color on the frames.  Nothing difficult, just that time consuming stuff, where if you want a decent finish, you need a decent starting place.

 

[Nigel Heath]

Double plus good work there Hendie.

[perdu]

Try a couple of coats of aerosol matt varnish on the clear acetate

 

I found that converted the clear piece I moulded for the Nimbus on my Scout into a layer of opacity

 

For the Nimbus it came into effect as a mesh screen, in your case I think it will add a frosted glass look

 

The bathroom

 

Shouldn't you make two?

 

One inside the model, the other to be displayed separately on the display base

 

Its awe inspiring mate.  🎺

[hendie]

Well, it's official.   Humbrol paint is the worst pile of I have come across since my return to modeling.  No exceptions!   It's CRAP with capitals.  it's so crap, it's the epitome of hot, steaming, peanut encrusted, with bits of corn in it.... crap!  It really is.

 

I spent most of this afternoon trying to spray the and it was like trying to spray a carpet... no, not like trying to spray paint on to a carpet... like try to spray the carpet through your airbrush !   I tried various thinners - no go.  Various consistencies - NO GO !!!

No matter how much I thinned it, it clogged the airbrush after a few seconds.  I've never experienced anything like this before.  The only way I could get it through the airbrush was to hike the pressure way up and I could get about 3 or 4 seconds before the airbrush clogged. Even thinning it right down, so much so that it would cover at all, the nozzle still clogged up.   There is no way on this earth that I will be able to use these paints at all. End of story.

I can only think that it's down to the pigmentation, and particle size thereof.  Straight out of the tin, stirred until my wrist gets sore, the paint is still thick and gloopy.  Humbrol is crap !  Okay, enough said.

 

Moving on with the realization that I am going to somehow concoct my own colors, I tried mixing up a batch to see if I could get a match. Concentrating on the Pullman Cream color - Humbrol "Cream" on the left of the lower card with my attempt at getting something close.  I think I got there with the "L" shaped block on the bottom end.

 

 

However, when I compare it to photo's of Pullman coaches, it's nothing like the cream shown here.  Okay, there's daylight, and a multitude of other things to consider when making color comparisons, but there's no way that the Humbrol Cream is even a close representation of the Pullman Cream.

 

 

Don't even mention the Umber color.   Humbrols version is so dark, it's almost black. I didn't even attempt to spray that as it was as gloopy as the cream when stirred.

This is really starting to hold up the build as I need to get the outer side frames painted before I can fit them to the chassis then begin assembling the interior.

 

 

 

[hacker]

funny l have airbrushed Humbrol for years without a problem. What thinner are you using by the way?

 

 

[Fastcat]

Been following this project for a while. It's a lesson in modelling skills!

Sorry to see your struggle with paints.

Have you seen these. I know nothing about them but it might be an answer.............................

Linky

They do a Pullman Cream a couple of pages on.

Dave

Edited April 16, 2017 by Fastcat
The pure joy it brings

[hendie]

8 minutes ago, hacker said:

What thinner are you using by the way

 

I tried distilled water, IPA, and Mr Color thinners, with and without retarder, and flow improver.

 

3 minutes ago, Fastcat said:

Have you seen these. I know nothing about them but it might be an answer.............................

Linky

 

Thanks Dave but the biggest issue is that I am based in the USA.  There are several companies in the UK making Pullman Umber and Cream (and supposedly a good match) but it's impossible to get paint sent from the UK due to the wonderful Royal Mail.

 

I'm trying to see if there's any color codes available that I can use to source similar colors in the USA, but so far having no luck.  I'd have assumed that with the vast number of rail modelers, and the issues with Pullman colors that someone would have figured out a home brew using other manufacturers, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Fastcat]

Ah, sorry, didn't realise your location. Thought it might be too easy!

 

Dave

[hacker]

First try Canada there are rail way shops here that may have what you need. Badger has a selection of paints and if you can find it try finding Floquil. It not made anymore but that was a recent thing so some rail road shops may have some in stock. l have a floquil paint chart with paint chips not printed reproductions.You may have to resort to custom mix your paint as many model railroads will do as getting exact colour is a challenge in itself. As for thinning Humbrol if you are using their thinners toss it out. go with either Tamiya lacquer thinners or if you can get it Gunze laquer thinners with a self leveling additive which l use and just love it. it will thin just about anything with exception to your waist line.You could also try badger model flex. l have used that on some Model trains l painted for a guy and they work ok just with it do not waste time as it does dry quickly but has a good finish. Also l never go with call out colour. Think outside the box and physically look at a paint colour  as  it maybe for another rail road name but colour is colour and if it matches go with it.l have used rail road colours for aircraft cause the colour happened to be a perfect match. 

[hendie]

8 minutes ago, Fastcat said:

Ah, sorry, didn't realise your location. Thought it might be too easy!

 

no problem Dave.

 

 

2 minutes ago, hacker said:

First try Canada....

 

Thanks Hacker.  I have gone down that route and so far without success. I did find a rail color paint chart, but didn't have any luck there either.

The best information I have at the moment is that Rover Russet Brown is a good match for the Pullman Umber, and Rover Primula Yellow is a good match for the Pullman Cream.

 

Seeing as these are automotive paints, I am now trawling t'intergoogle to see if I can find a supplier for those here in the USA