Are Things Really This Bad?

[chuckb1]

As an ex member of HM Forces, GET OVER IT YOU WHINING (*&^%$£

1. A crabfat. pongoes, matelots or bootnecks bag meal is notoriously gash. Be it from 1940 to 2014

Normally consists of the following;

Sarines x 2 for the eating of. Curly dry and packed with no love or care filled with 1 slice of plastic ham, tuna mush or rubber cheese

Crisps x 1 soggy and salted dated from god knows when and non descript naafi brand

Biscuit x 1 packet lucky dip, normally out of date and a left over from the Suez Crisis usually digestive, bourbon or custard cream 3 in a pack

Fruit x 1 battered with more wrinkles than my gran (Shes dead btw)

Drink X 1 non descriptive brand panda pop or worse fizzy and warm

Sausage roll or "Oggie" dry flaky with some sort of mush that represents over spiced to kill the germs meat.

Finally breaking into rations or the cookhouse or galley.

Been there done that. Ever aquired a 5 lbs block of pussers cheese 10 tins of mackerel in tomato sauce, 12 jars of baby sick, (Matelots and booties know what this is) man size tin of lemon curd, jam and a box of butter pats and 12 loaves come and see me!

My lads dietary needs come first sod the tight fisted chefs and stores R***S

Eating cold rations on ops............ Been there and done that more times than you can shake a stick at.

Person who wrote the letter, son or miss; Man or woman the hell up grow a pair of what you have and god gave you. Its life in uniform

Mind you it was a crab whining............. RAF check in, Royals and Pongoes dig in....................... says it all really

Edited December 6, 2014 by chuckb1

[Tripehound]

If the spending cuts outlined in the Autumn Statement come to pass we'll look on these as the days of plenty

[Truro Model Builder]

I don't go for the 'man up' argument. Would any of you want to work lengthy shifts without a decent meal? I sure as heck wouldn't, whether I was civilian or military.

If I was flying one of HM's GR.4s out over Iraq I would like to think that the jet to which my continued existence is reliant on (because if you bang out over IS territory you won't enjoy it for long) has been serviced by personnel who are at the top of their game. This means they are receiving appropriate standards of welfare support, including rest, breaks and nutrition, which allows them to undertake their duties to the best they can.

Furthermore, Akrotiri is not a strip in the desert with a few tents; it is a main RAF base and if it is unable to provide these facilities then there is something very seriously wrong somewhere.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

60 Rounds of ammo

Bayonet

Bully beef rations

That's how we got rid of the last lot of Fuzzy wuzzies

Ahh the good old days Jones

[Dave Wilson]

I've often wondered about the 'man up' mentality too; it's almost a competition to see who can live off cockroaches and drink camel piddle. I can't see anything wrong with expecting a main HM Forces base to come up with some decent grub. Or isn't this tough enough for some of you? You could always sling away the decent tucker and find some grass to nibble on if it makes you feel better, but personally I think it's pathetic that Akrotiri can't get a grip on the provision of food. Assuming of course that this is actually the case.

[chuckb1]

I don't go for the 'man up' argument. Would any of you want to work lengthy shifts without a decent meal? I sure as heck wouldn't, whether I was civilian or military.

If I was flying one of HM's GR.4s out over Iraq I would like to think that the jet to which my continued existence is reliant on (because if you bang out over IS territory you won't enjoy it for long) has been serviced by personnel who are at the top of their game. This means they are receiving appropriate standards of welfare support, including rest, breaks and nutrition, which allows them to undertake their duties to the best they can.

Furthermore, Akrotiri is not a strip in the desert with a few tents; it is a main RAF base and if it is unable to provide these facilities then there is something very seriously wrong somewhere.

Well, after living like that for six months at a time over a 22 year period, in various salubrious locations all over the world from the South Atlantic, Central American jungle, various delightful desert locations and the snow covered land of the midnight sun the term "Man up" is on point you have food, you have a pit to sleep in, and a wash every day. Cyprus is not Helmand, that would give the writer something to drip about.

Personally never had to drink Camel widdle, eat a cockie, or gnaw on grass not even on a SERE course at RAF St Mawgan with the crabs. That was more bunny rabbits, chicken, more bunny rabbits and fresh water. Not a camel or its deposits in sight.

I have to say though, after Peru Lama was quite tasty in 87

Is what it is, cant change it its the might of the machine. So, count the days, tick them off your gozome chit and wait for the flight home. Always seems better when you drop your grip off on the bed at home, run a bath and wait for your first decent scran in months.

The phrase if you cant take it PVR springs to mind. Its military life meh is what it is. Do it or sign off.

Ah they were the days Corporal Jones, They just dont like it up em!

Edited December 6, 2014 by chuckb1

[Greg B]

As an ex member of HM Forces, GET OVER IT YOU WHINING (*&^%$£

1. A crabfat. pongoes, matelots or bootnecks bag meal is notoriously gash. Be it from 1940 to 2014

Normally consists of the following;

Sarines x 2 for the eating of. Curly dry and packed with no love or care filled with 1 slice of plastic ham, tuna mush or rubber cheese

Crisps x 1 soggy and salted dated from god knows when and non descript naafi brand

Biscuit x 1 packet lucky dip, normally out of date and a left over from the Suez Crisis usually digestive, bourbon or custard cream 3 in a pack

Fruit x 1 battered with more wrinkles than my gran (Shes dead btw)

Drink X 1 non descriptive brand panda pop or worse fizzy and warm

Sausage roll or "Oggie" dry flaky with some sort of mush that represents over spiced to kill the germs meat.

Finally breaking into rations or the cookhouse or galley.

Been there done that. Ever aquired a 5 lbs block of pussers cheese 10 tins of mackerel in tomato sauce, 12 jars of baby sick, (Matelots and booties know what this is) man size tin of lemon curd, jam and a box of butter pats and 12 loaves come and see me!

My lads dietary needs come first sod the tight fisted chefs and stores R***S

Eating cold rations on ops............ Been there and done that more times than you can shake a stick at.

Person who wrote the letter, son or miss; Man or woman the hell up grow a pair of what you have and god gave you. Its life in uniform

Mind you it was a crab whining............. RAF check in, Royals and Pongoes dig in....................... says it all really

In your horror bags you had Tuna, biscuits and sausage rolls/oggies? You were spoilt. Bloody whinging Booties!

[chuckb1]

Love it!

If you cant take a bag meal, you shouldnt have joined up!

[Truro Model Builder]

Well, after living like that for six months at a time over a 22 year period, in various salubrious locations all over the world from the South Atlantic, Central American jungle, various delightful desert locations and the snow covered land of the midnight sun the term "Man up" is on point you have food, you have a pit to sleep in, and a wash every day. Cyprus is not Helmand, that would give the writer something to drip about.

Personally never had to drink Camel widdle, eat a cockie, or gnaw on grass not even on a SERE course at RAF St Mawgan with the crabs. That was more bunny rabbits, chicken, more bunny rabbits and fresh water. Not a camel or its deposits in sight.

I have to say though, after Peru Lama was quite tasty in 87

Is what it is, cant change it its the might of the machine. So, count the days, tick them off your gozome chit and wait for the flight home. Always seems better when you drop your grip off on the bed at home, run a bath and wait for your first decent scran in months.

The phrase if you cant take it PVR springs to mind. Its military life meh is what it is. Do it or sign off.

Ah they were the days Corporal Jones, They just dont like it up em!

So, if I'm right what you're saying is that because you were content to live in a mudhole for weeks on end, that should be alright for everyone else. There's a homeless guy who wanders around Truro with a bucket tied to his belt that when he feels he needs to, he takes a dump in it. And I guess that as he's content to do that we should all do the same. The difference is the MoD can improve the situation.

This is being talked about on pprune at the moment, and some of the comments are from the same 'take it or leave it' camp. Others are more enlightened, thankfully:

"Roughing it is all well and good when required. I'd argue that at a UK MOB in 2014 that shouldn't be necessary. The TGRF lads on Op Taurus didn't moan as they knew they were deployed in the middle of an African ********."

"I should be amazed at the number of people who seem to think that a race to the bottom is an acceptable way of working... There are circumstances where individuals have to put up with austere conditions due to the tactical situation, and generally I've found people recognise that and don't complain. Being placed in such conditions due to financial constraints, which has become the norm, is not acceptable and people therefore complain."

"Whether people like it or not, serving conditions, and serving members expectations, have moved on over the years... The latest generations of submarines, both SSBN and SSN, apparently have sufficient bunks for all crew members, thus ending the old practice of "hot bunking"... By comparison, the expectation of a hot meal during a night shift at a long established base doesn't seem to be asking a lot to me!"

"After many SH tours, I have experienced the luxury and hell that the RAF can provide, all over the world. I cringe at the stupidity of those who delight in saying that "we always have it tougher than you". So what, who is the stupid one there then??? It's always preferable to check in, rather than dig in. As long as you CAN dig in when absolutely necessary.

I will compare this situation to a RN ship. Poor accommodation, ok then, long deployments, ok as well....... Poor food, mutiny."

"Take two shifts, one permanent days, the other permanent nights. The night crew see the day crew getting a cooked three course meal, while they are fed sandwiches, wouldn't you be a bit ****** off?"

"Is there anyone reading this thread that thinks it is acceptable for any individual of any service to be expected to work 12+ hour shifts on an enduring basis without access to hot food?"

"Please, speaking as an old fogey myself just because we put up with it back in our day, it doesn't mean that its alright now... These days, like it or not, technicians are NOT squaddies, they want proper working conditions - good fully functioning workplaces, proper clothing, really good places to eat when on duty and seriously comfortable places to live in whether married or single. If you don't understand that this is the way people think today, then get out of the way - because they do."

You know what? They can't all be wrong.

[DAG058]

We are slowly turning into yanks. Gone are the days when we Brits could be proud of making-do in a really sh!tty situation. Improvisation and common sense was the best tool we ever had. In times when any other professional army (or blue uniformed counter-part) would give up, we would always be able to crack on. Maybe with a bit of a grumble. however the sense of humour that we picked up at the G10 stores on day one never failed us.

[bentwaters81tfw]

It's becoming the same in civvy street. Whilst we are not expected to engage in mortal combat, many of us do work in arduous conditions. A decade or so back, when I was on nights, we had a hot meal around midnight, and a hot breakfast before we clocked off at 7am. OK we had to pay for it, but it was subsidised. Where I work now, we have gone from three canteens to one, opening hours do not necessarily coincide with break times. The subsidy has been withdrawn, and the prices hiked. In addition, shifts have been extended in some cases, bonuses reduced. There is a programme of renaming jobs and making employees re apply for fewer places at reduced pay. Others get made redundant so they can employ new workers on zero hour contracts at half the money. Morale is zero, new recruits stay only a few months, and new, inexperienced workers are constantly being let loose with only 2 days training. This in a highly mechanised and specialised industry, which is regarded as Strategic by the Govt. We were sold to an overseas consortium, who intend using cheap foreign labour for a bowl of rice a day. The company makes an absolute mint each year, but the greedy, incompetent management want it all, and cannot see the damage to their own business they are creating. The problem is we are run by bean counters, who employ less capable underlings. Anyone with brains is seen as a threat to the hierarchy.

It has become a race to the bottom, I don't blame the Crabs for complaining one bit. This sort of rot has to stop.

[Dave Wilson]

Gone are the days when we Brits could be proud of making-do in a really sh!tty situation.

What is there to be proud about by admitting that you are so ill prepared and badly managed that you have to make do? How about being properly prepared in the first place?

[Barrovian]

Egg Banjos

Square sausages from a round tin

Biscuits AB

mmmmmm........

[Greg B]

So, if I'm right what you're saying is that because you were content to live in a mudhole for weeks on end, that should be alright for everyone else. There's a homeless guy who wanders around Truro with a bucket tied to his belt that when he feels he needs to, he takes a dump in it. And I guess that as he's content to do that we should all do the same. The difference is the MoD can improve the situation.

This is being talked about on pprune at the moment, and some of the comments are from the same 'take it or leave it' camp. Others are more enlightened, thankfully:

"Roughing it is all well and good when required. I'd argue that at a UK MOB in 2014 that shouldn't be necessary. The TGRF lads on Op Taurus didn't moan as they knew they were deployed in the middle of an African ********."

"I should be amazed at the number of people who seem to think that a race to the bottom is an acceptable way of working... There are circumstances where individuals have to put up with austere conditions due to the tactical situation, and generally I've found people recognise that and don't complain. Being placed in such conditions due to financial constraints, which has become the norm, is not acceptable and people therefore complain."

"Whether people like it or not, serving conditions, and serving members expectations, have moved on over the years... The latest generations of submarines, both SSBN and SSN, apparently have sufficient bunks for all crew members, thus ending the old practice of "hot bunking"... By comparison, the expectation of a hot meal during a night shift at a long established base doesn't seem to be asking a lot to me!"

"After many SH tours, I have experienced the luxury and hell that the RAF can provide, all over the world. I cringe at the stupidity of those who delight in saying that "we always have it tougher than you". So what, who is the stupid one there then??? It's always preferable to check in, rather than dig in. As long as you CAN dig in when absolutely necessary.

I will compare this situation to a RN ship. Poor accommodation, ok then, long deployments, ok as well....... Poor food, mutiny."

"Take two shifts, one permanent days, the other permanent nights. The night crew see the day crew getting a cooked three course meal, while they are fed sandwiches, wouldn't you be a bit ****** off?"

"Is there anyone reading this thread that thinks it is acceptable for any individual of any service to be expected to work 12+ hour shifts on an enduring basis without access to hot food?"

"Please, speaking as an old fogey myself just because we put up with it back in our day, it doesn't mean that its alright now... These days, like it or not, technicians are NOT squaddies, they want proper working conditions - good fully functioning workplaces, proper clothing, really good places to eat when on duty and seriously comfortable places to live in whether married or single. If you don't understand that this is the way people think today, then get out of the way - because they do."

You know what? They can't all be wrong.

I'm afraid your quote demonstrates quite succinctly how divorced from reality some members of the RAF are. The hell that the SH force endures..... Check in not dig in... Techs are not squaddies....

Thankfully they are not. Whilst that tech is whinging about cheese sandwiches, there are people in Syria and Iraq who are being murdered in the vilest ways possible by a wholly reprehensible group of which we are trying to eradicate by dropping bombs loaded by and onto aircraft by the technicians.

Those techs are not living out of a Bergen, patroling for weeks on end in Helmand with a goodly chance that they or their mates will be injured or hurt if they drop their vigilance, guard or concentration for a second. They go back to a shower and clean bed at the end of a shift, not a doss bag with a couple of stags to perform during the night followed by a quick rub down in whatever water you can spare from what you have been rationed.

These "technicians" are based on a large military base where families are housed, cinemas, swimming pool, bars etc. in fact it's used as the R&R centre for troops returning from Afghnistan, it's a holiday island in the Med where you and your family can go for a holiday.

Those techs have a job to do, regardless of the minor gripes they have and that is to project that air power to kill those who are causing the genocide in Iraq and Syria. If it means missing meals, working hard and doing what they are paid well to do, volunteered for and in all probability and embarrassingly probably get a medal for then tough because in all honesty, they are not at risk, in danger, starving, sleep deprived or dirty. We do not go to war with everything in place, beds made, tables set and menus resolved, we deploy as swiftly as possible, crack on and rely on those items to catch up when time, money and need makes it possible. The majority of those techs will get that and crack on, but those that have whinged have no excuse whatsoever and are an embarrassment to the RAF and the British Armed Forces.

[Dave Wilson]

Greg, the armed forces have whinged since day one of the armed forces. It's what they do, don't take it so seriously. It's part of forces life. Bombs are still being loaded, targets are still being targetted, the job will still get done (on a shoestring of course). Part of the raison d'etre of the crab is for the pongoe to have something to whinge at. Fisheads try and join in when they don't feel intellectually challenged. The crab just flies above it all. It is the way of things. God is in his heaven and all is well.

[Troy Smith]

poor treatment of British armed forces is a long tradition.

here's a quote about the Spanish Armada sailors

Throughout the whole campaign, the English lost no ships and only 100 men in battle. However, over 7,000 English sailors died from disease (dysentery and typhus mostly) during the time the Armada was in English water. Also those English sailors who survived and fought against the Armada were poorly treated by the English government. Many were given only enough money for the journey to their home and some received only part of their pay. John Hawkins showed concern for his men: "The men have long been unpaid and need relief". The overall commander of the English Navy, Lord Howard, was shocked claiming that "I would rather have never a penny in the world, than they (his sailors) should lack...". Howard wrote to William Cecil (20 Aug 1588) " ... It is a most pitiful sight to see, here at Margate, how the men, having no place to receive them into here, die in the streets. I am driven myself, of force, to come a-land, to see them bestowed in some lodging; and the best I can get is barns and outhouses. It would grieve any man's heart to see them that have served so valiantly to die so miserably...". With this, he used his own money to pay his sailors.

The poor treatment of the services during and after service in this country has always been a disgrace.

[chuckb1]

Troy my friend your statement is so true. I am so pleased that the Evening Standard is now getting behind the Ex Servicemen's charities and raising awareness.

After leaving the forces, i had my wilderness years, luckily I had a supportive Mrs B who stood by me when I re trained. For me its been about grafting and digging deep to get what you want in life. Finally made it at last, sadly there are many who have not. Fair breaks my heart.

We have always followed the make do and mend philosophy, best trained but with gash kit. The standing joke with the Pongoes and the Marines in the 80's and 90's was the fact that the Royals and pretty much all other Commando forces from the RA, RN, FAA and Army became known as the "Millets or Silvermans Commandos" Due to the fact that many of us bought our own Gucci kit from surplus companies due to the fact that what was issued was frankly pony and fell apart. Thanks be for companies such as Arktis and Lowa, At least Lowas or Altberg soles didnt rot and fall off the uppers of your boots, or Combat jackets that did not dry out properly. no thermal layers issued like a Norgie top or a Helly base layer. Water Proofs that literally boiled you alive and had the water proof properties of a tea bag. The biggest step forward was proper Garry Gortex being issued to us all.

Now as for the pale blue jobs dripping about their accom, food and how hard they graft. True they are being dumped on, true they are techies. However they are front line operational personnel. Therefore you will have to rough it, so is life. It will be galling that the opposite shift get hot food and a marginally better life.Does it really matter when what they are doing will hopefully deny the expansion of a bunch of murdering fiends. Gradually exterminating the indigenous population.

One final thought for all the old soldiers sailors and airmen out there......

Babies heads, potmess, square sausages, biscuits fly, biscuits brown, burger n beans, sausage and beans, screech lemon, limers or orange powder, corned dog, tinned spuds, tinned mixed veg, madras curry powder, pot noodle, (nutritional value of a flip flop) and tastes about the same. Better with the curry powder mixed in and 2 slices of bread and butter mashed into it, powdered soup and the makings for freeze dried tea with milk. Oh and that oat meal/shortbread biscuit thing that resembled a cross between a Farleys Rusk and a dog biscuit, so sweet your teeth screamed!

Rat pack curry today seems like cordon bleu compared to the food of the old school.

Right Im now pulling up my sandbag, swinging my lantern and making a wet of tea on my hexi. None of that jet boil malarkey here young man!

[oggy4624]

Yes , but things have always been that bad, but not if you were an REMF.

Anyone who was ever deployable knows this.

REMF's always had enough body armour, deployables didn't.

The RAF, navy, grunts, NHS social etc suffer from CRIMINAL MISSMANAGEMENT.

The front end will always suffer, managers are stuffing their pockets.

The forces still have the same air , flag GOC ranks as they has 30 years ago , with a fraction of the force size.

Top end shrinkage is needed , but this will never happen.

Simply , don't join up, from comments aired here, you will serve an ungrateful country.

[Ingo Degenhardt]

..and don't forget many of our NATO partners are in exactly the same boat, run down capabilities and lack of funding, etc. I wonder where it will all lead?

Germany for example.

[Antoine]

..and don't forget many of our NATO partners are in exactly the same boat, run down capabilities and lack of funding, etc. I wonder where it will all lead?

Indeed!

Sometime, the situation is even worse!

[Darby]

Well I'm still in the 'dark blue' and I enjoy moaning about bagrats, rubbish kit and civvies running the show. Where else would I get my satire from. And 'crabs,' what exactly are they? Didn't they start a flying club sometime after the RN had been doing it for a few years?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Darby

[Dave Wilson]

Well someone had to step in and show you how to do it properly.

[Norman]

I agree that servicemen always complain about their food i was one of the worst in our lot !!! and anyone who knows me knows i love good food , and plenty of it ! but i don't really get too concerned about complaints regarding food, yes if in charge i would have a look and see if there were problems IF i received more than a few complaints that is

BUT what does concern me is weapons status

I do wonder what would happen if a serious conflict broke out, you know unpredicted and just sudden ?? and a major one with people on the other side serious ( but lead by a nutter) and better armed ???( it has happened before !)

Now i am 100% positive the services would man up and defend the home front and do whatever was necessary to accomplish it

What i do wonder about is, are the weapons they currently possess up to scratch and do they have enough and the proper support ?

The Tornado's, exactly how old is the current fleet ? and how many conflicts have they been in ? are they slated for replacement and please don't tell me the RAF is waiting for the F35 to replace it, i'd like to know the answers if anyone can help

Cheers

[JohnT]

Allowing for the ancient and honourable forces tradition that requires a serviceman to grumble about his/her lot (see I can be PC too) there does seem to be some basis for real concern that we don't do enough for those who get in between us and the nasty guys.

Now whose fault is it and what can be done?

Had a think and it's not really that of the MOD or even the HMG that serve us. You see we (I refer to us, the great unwashed general public) get asked by pollsters and focus groups what we vote for and Defence does not even figure. "We" don't rate it above other issues and even though we turn out on Poppy Day and stand when the coffins come back we wholly fail to make it clear to our elected representatives that unless they provide funding training and kit to our armed forces as required to do the job they will be losing our vote and their job

Maybe it's time we started to say no more cuts to the Defence budget for starters.

[Truro Model Builder]

Fine, I'll just get my bucket and take a dump in it then. After all, the lowest standard seems to appeal to many.