Max Headroom Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I recently found this website called Urban Ghosts. http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com Fascinating stuff and well worth a few minutes of your time as a diversion, if empty houses and abandoned urban subways are your bag. However this entry caught my interest. http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2014/11/f-117-nighthawk-stealth-fighters-buried-nevada-graves/ Deeply weird or just plain hokum? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Interesting .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticky847 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 the aussies buried their f111's i think because of the potential hazardous waste involved in scrapping, plus any a/c with a lot composite structure is not worth the effort/money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectroSoldier Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What would you do with all the composites once you have recovered them anyway?Once they are infused thats pretty much them fixed for life, or even death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 IIRC when most of the Beech Starships (?) which were also primarily built from composite materials were withdrawn they were incinerated. Was that just a way of ensuring that some potential future litigation never happened? Also, what's going to happen when all those 787s get withdrawn from use: are we going to need bigger landfill sites to bury them in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky dancer Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Hi Folks, Usually just a "watcher", but felt moved to reply to the thread as it concerned the much-loved F-117. Only one F-117 was broken up (IIRC one of the FSD examples?), the rest were apparently flown to Tonopah and "retired" in 2008. Notice the use of quotation marks - at least one F-117 has been seen very much alive and flying on two occasions in 2010, and more recently on the 29th and 30th September 2014. There are two separate videos on Youtube re. the 2010 sightings. In one it is being tanked by a KC-10, while MIT's testbed Gulfstream 2 N105TB, was in the vicinity of another flight. N105TB is also worth a check on Google (other search engines are available!) and Youtube. If the sight of a "biz-jet" carrying 4 x underwing pods, an inert AIM-9X and what looks like the new IRST being developed for the F/A-18 in an under nose pod interests you, then check out the photos of it in close proximity of what appears to be a SU-27 over Groom Lake, and also a MIG-29... Anyway, there are stills of an F-117 landing at Tonopah in September on the Aviationist website, as well as one of the Groom Lake websites. Maybe not as obsolete as we were led to believe. The truth is out there....!! Regards, Michael. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 They should just bury them with all those Burmese Spitfires. Right, I'll get me coat! Regards, Jason 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilson Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Is it Groom Lake that's the secret place or Tonopah? I can never remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky dancer Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Groom Lake is pure "black" i.e. uber secret. Tonopah was also "black", but became more "grey" when the 37th TFW/FW returned from Gulf War 1 - they may have even had a family day! Tonopah is still the destination listed for air traffic (such as the "Janet" 737's, N105TB etc.) going into Groom, which is never, ever referred to on any flight plans etc. Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Groom Lake is the test site. Tonopah is the Nighthawk lair. They have been kept in warm storage rather than retired to D-M. Believe what you like, a picture of one being broken up isn't evidence the rest have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVi Tophatter Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 At present, there are two F-117's still flying. Not sure why the rest have been carefully stored in their original climate controlled hangars at Tonopah if they are going to be destroyed. This is the kind of thing that the conspiracy theorists thrive on!!! I thought that the 'low observability' technology was obsolete/comprimised. Would be nice is if they got an F-14D in the air, most of them were actually only as 'old' as early F-16CJ Block 50/52's... That particular Gulfstream 2 is interesting, as is the other UAV test aircraft. The jet was/is testing the AIM-9X/IRST package, wonder if it has a simulator or two inside... There is a Hasegawa F-16C kit (Wisconsin ANG boxing) that has an interesting box-top photo, just behind the F-16C you can just about make out the extremities of a 'civil' MiG-21. The USAF have had MiG-29's for some time, care of unified Germany and possibly Poland but I would love to know where the Su-27 came from and what variant it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky dancer Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) N105TB has also been photographed flying into Point Mugu with an ACMI/AIS pod fitted to it's port wing tip pylon, perhaps suggesting that whatever it's measuring it's going it under combat conditions (or as close to it as you can in a biz-jet!) As to whats inside it, who knows? The bird I really want to see inside is the NT-43B, but it seems to be reserved for the big stuff i.e the B-2. The video footage of the SU-27 is very grainy and distant, however there was a still taken (in 2009?) which shows a pale blue underside, white radome and what look like ECM pods (I can't remember the Soviet/Russian name) on its wingtip stations, but it's still too distant to be certain. The colour scheme suggested that it was not any of the Indian Air Force Sukhoi's that took part in Red Flag, nor one of the two "civilian" Sukhoi's imported, legally, from Ukraine. Whatever the reason, I still think the F-117 is the most awesome shape in the sky, hope they keep it (them?) flyable for a while yet. As for conspiracy theorists, I'm wearing my tin foil hat as I type.... Michael Edited December 4, 2014 by Sky dancer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilson Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Groom Lake is pure "black" i.e. uber secret. Can't be that secret, we're talking about it on an internet forum! I've justy googled it; it appears that the base has an ICAO identifier and is known as 'Homey'. Not advisable to use it as a nav point though... I get the impression it's what goes on there that is classified rather than the base itself. You can hardly hide it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 There have been various stories about the F-117A. Don Logan reported about 15 were still being used when he wrote his book. They were being used for various testing. In October this year at least two were seen flying. It has been said they are being kept in "war storage" so can be re-activated if needed, but how true this is I dont know. Also how much use they would be without trained pilots I dont know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well this thread has morphed somewhat! With regard to flyers, I assume that there is a cadre of pilots who are current. If a civil airliner pilot can qualify by gaining hours on a simulator, then something similar for a 117 driver cannot be beyond the realms of possibility? Maybe they are QFI's? Bottom line is that 'they' would not not keep at least some of them flying unless there was a purpose, as otherwise there would be an outcry about the waste of tax dollars. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigh827 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) The aircraft are stored until they are of no use, do to being out of date, or repair parts can not be had. All but a few F-14's were striped of their engines and interments and ground up in to little bits, which were burned or put in land fills. Iran has the only flyable F-14's left on the planet. Edited December 6, 2014 by bigh827 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kap64 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Here's some info: http://theaviationist.com/2014/11/11/reason-behind-f-117-flights/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Thanks for that Kap. Erm that clears things up........I think. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 One interesting aspect of this is the huge cost of getting rid of modern aircraft. Old aircraft, with little or no carbon fibre, are easy - its just metal and can be scrapped easily. Modern aircraft with their high proportion of carbon fibre are hugely expensive to get rid of. This is why it was cheaper to give the Americans the Harriers than to try and do something with them in the UK. Can't imagine what's in these F117s but it must be a real headache for the DoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVi Tophatter Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 One interesting aspect of this is the huge cost of getting rid of modern aircraft. Old aircraft, with little or no carbon fibre, are easy - its just metal and can be scrapped easily. Modern aircraft with their high proportion of carbon fibre are hugely expensive to get rid of. This is why it was cheaper to give the Americans the Harriers than to try and do something with them in the UK. Can't imagine what's in these F117s but it must be a real headache for the DoD. True. The 'YF-117' in the OP shows it being ripped apart with ease but it has to be mentioned that the aircraft is practically all metal at this point. The problem is the RAM coating over the fuselage and leading edges of the F-117, it's less than pleasant to work with, quite toxic some reports say... Once this has been removed, the F-117 is just a 'tin can' that can be disposed of just like any other '70's era aircraft. I guess even if the rest of the fleet are awaiting destruction, it's fairly logical to have them in their original hangars than out in that massive desert 'Bone Yard'. Some more speculation on my part, the F-117's being flown around may be involved in the F/A-18 Super Hornet IRST program, amongst other things. We'll probably not know what's going on for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky dancer Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Can't be that secret, we're talking about it on an internet forum! I've justy googled it; it appears that the base has an ICAO identifier and is known as 'Homey'. Not advisable to use it as a nav point though... I get the impression it's what goes on there that is classified rather than the base itself. You can hardly hide it. Dave, You are absolutely correct; I should have said it was the programs/projects that were super secret! As to being "combat ready" - in my opinion this only raises more questions than it answers! The old NATO standard for a pilot/crew to maintain combat readiness was 120 hours flying time minimum per annum; not just flying around doing circuits and bumps, but doing mission profiles. However, that was in the 1980's when Tornado was in; things may now be different with Typhoon/F-22 and simulator time may reduce this?? Then, as well as aircrews, there is the much more important question of maintenance/ground crews and keeping them current - nothing is going to get off the ground without them. Obviously, some of the F-117's ARE getting of the ground - it's just a question of how many! I think it's interesting that the F-117(s) video'd and/or photographed are all in the "standard' black scheme, and not the two-tone grey FS36375/FS36176 or gunship grey FS36118 examples? Lockheed's "Skunk Works" has been sued twice by employees regarding alleged contamination by materials as yet unspecified in public documents, but it was stated that some of the Skunkwork's land had been contaminated by perchloroethylene and trichloroethylene. I have no idea what these are!! Perhaps as Watcher says, it's easier just to store them rather than risk more contamination and legal action. However, the last litigation that I know of ended in 2000, long before the very public "execution" of an FSD F-117 at Palmdale (When I say "public", I mean by Skunkworks standards - i.e. it was photographed) The airframe looks very metallic to me, looks like all the RAM has been removed? Michael. P.S. just ran "perchloroethylene" and "trichloroethylene" through a popular search engine. My first reaction was 'WTF?' I am now putting my tin foil hat on again..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I wish someone had buried the AW Argosies all those years ago. I might be half sane now if they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The aircraft are stored until they are of no use, do to being out of date, or repair parts can not be had. All but a few F-14's were striped of their engines and interments and ground up in to little bits, which were burned or put in land fills. Iran has the only flyable F-14's left on the planet. You cant really use the F-14 example. The reason most were ground up was that Iran still has them. There were I think intermediaries trying to buy tomcat parts for the Iranians, or a fear of such so the US ground most of them up because of this. No one else has 117's and unless there was a need for them they would not be spending tax $$ keeping them flying when even the US Defense budget is under strain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHx Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Re trichloroethylene - there we have it, radar reflections are a red herring and stealth really works by exuding anesthetic fumes which render anyone seeing the jet unconscious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVi Tophatter Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 You cant really use the F-14 example. The reason most were ground up was that Iran still has them. There were I think intermediaries trying to buy tomcat parts for the Iranians, or a fear of such so the US ground most of them up because of this. No one else has 117's and unless there was a need for them they would not be spending tax $$ keeping them flying when even the US Defense budget is under strain! Regarding the F-14's, it was a mixture of US nationals and a US based, Iranian 'owned' company obtaining, selling and shipping components above and below board. Most of the F-14's and all the manufacturing tooling being destroyed so quickly was more to do with the Super Hornet saga than anything else... The 'Iran has them' line is just easy and effective justification for doing so, after all, they are the 'bad guys' at this moment in time... The more one ponders about the F-117's over Tonopah, the more bizarre it becomes, it just seems illogical to use them for anything, even low observability tests or even drones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now