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First UK RAF A-400M Atlas delivered to RAF Brize Norton.


Hawkkeeper

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found this on the defence internet site at work this morning, it's a huge machine makes a C-17 look small.

Only if you look in the wrong end of the binoculars.

Shorter, lower, lighter, less payload, etc.

Which is not meant as a criticism of the aircraft since they have different roles - but it isn't bigger.

Shane

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I saw the mock up at Paris 87 - looooooong time ago.

The C17 wasn't even a twinkle in Douglas's eye at that stage.

It beat the A400 into service by 14 years - shame the UK has destroyed its aviation business so much that it can no longer go it alone.

Dealing with mainland europe is a nightmare.

Look how much damage and cost the germans hit the eurofighter with.

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The A400 is a completely different beast, The 130 should have been re designed as the cabin is not wide or tall enough.

You will bulk out on a 130 before you reach max weight most times , when it comes to vehicles , the 130 cannot carry a lot of the current inventory.

Vehicles have gotten bigger- taller and wider - weight is usually not the problem.

Just as I left the movements world, the harrier force was having to retain older clapped out 4 ton trucks because the new ones were not airportable with the HIAB cranes.

The A400 is needed , that is why it was developed.The herc is a very old design - late 40's and it struggled to gain certification for the J.

The C141 was a disaster because because it retained the same cabin cross section as the 130, so it got longer and still couldn't carry a lot of essential kit.

Enter the C5 - way too big for everyday applications.

The 5 force was underutilised when the 17 entered service because the 17 was the right size and could operate into more austere airports.

So the 5 force reduced in numbers, will be down to about 20% of the total built pretty soon, first flew 46 years ago.

The UK will be better served by buying more A400's than scrambling for the few remaining C17 frames.

It is bigger than the herc, but smaller and cheaper to operate than the C17 and more suited to the UK's needs

By the time the 400 is in service in significant numbers the J's will have over 20 years service with the RAF .

The 400 fills a gap left by the belfast - and that could really lift a lot of kit - but it was slow., but took the place of 3 hercs.

I don't think Airbus are too worried about their share price.

Best of luck with all the new kit.

30 years ago , when I joined up, The VC10's were ancient , The Tristars were second hand and the post falkland hercs were clapped out..

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I saw the mock up at Paris 87 - looooooong time ago.

The C17 wasn't even a twinkle in Douglas's eye at that stage.

It beat the A400 into service by 14 years - shame the UK has destroyed its aviation business so much that it can no longer go it alone.

Dealing with mainland europe is a nightmare.

Look how much damage and cost the germans hit the eurofighter with.

Every time I read a post like this the site's ban on politics makes a bit more sense.

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The A400 is a completely different beast, The 130 should have been re designed as the cabin is not wide or tall enough.

You will bulk out on a 130 before you reach max weight most times , when it comes to vehicles , the 130 cannot carry a lot of the current inventory.

Vehicles have gotten bigger- taller and wider - weight is usually not the problem.

Just as I left the movements world, the harrier force was having to retain older clapped out 4 ton trucks because the new ones were not airportable with the HIAB cranes.

The A400 is needed , that is why it was developed.The herc is a very old design - late 40's and it struggled to gain certification for the J.

The C141 was a disaster because because it retained the same cabin cross section as the 130, so it got longer and still couldn't carry a lot of essential kit.

Enter the C5 - way too big for everyday applications.

The 5 force was underutilised when the 17 entered service because the 17 was the right size and could operate into more austere airports.

So the 5 force reduced in numbers, will be down to about 20% of the total built pretty soon, first flew 46 years ago.

The UK will be better served by buying more A400's than scrambling for the few remaining C17 frames.

It is bigger than the herc, but smaller and cheaper to operate than the C17 and more suited to the UK's needs

By the time the 400 is in service in significant numbers the J's will have over 20 years service with the RAF .

The 400 fills a gap left by the belfast - and that could really lift a lot of kit - but it was slow., but took the place of 3 hercs.

I don't think Airbus are too worried about their share price.

Best of luck with all the new kit.

30 years ago , when I joined up, The VC10's were ancient , The Tristars were second hand and the post falkland hercs were clapped out..

What a good post!

I was a little uncertain about the A400 and as an ex Para I have a definite soft spot for the Herk, but you make a lot of sense. I do think that there is still a place for the Herk mind you,.....maybe a squadron dedicated to supporting the enlarged Combined Forces Special Forces Group, for small infiltrations etc as the A400 seems just a bit too big for small scale para drops or rough field ops into small airstrips? That is if the RAF could afford to support a small number of Herks.

Cheers

Tony

PS- I must agree though that anything designed with European collaboration just seems to take forever, costs a fortune and in many cases just doesn`t meet all of the original expectations,.....but that is just the nature of the beast I suppose as the end result has to be a compromise and unfortunately Britain is no longer `Great' enough to go alone any more.

Edited by tonyot
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The herc has given 60 years of sterling service and still has a place in any airlift strategy, but it has its limitations.

Some hercs should be retained , especially for SF use.

For general ,moving stuff around ,there are better options.

Some C295's may be even more suitable for UK and in theatre use, remember the Andover?

My experience was with the K , but the a400 obviously has a place given the Asia centric operations of the last 20 years.

No military program anywhere has hit its specification or come within a scary multiple of its original budget.

If it carries stuff and eventually tankers, that will be a big boost for all concerned.

Sorry Dave In December 1985, a full-scale development contract was awarded for the C17, FF 1991.

Douglas knew how to get the job done!

Gee tripehound, are any of my comments incorrect, or do you not like people that state the facts?

Thought police, anyone?

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Gee tripehound, are any of my comments incorrect, or do you not like people that state the facts?

Thought police, anyone?

They weren't facts, merely props for an anti-euro rant. No need to involve the police , I'm not accusing you of thinking.

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Can we please get off the political stuff and celebrate the delivery of new kit fir our Armed Forces and something that will enhance our Strategic airlift capacity. I think it looks quite an amazing aircraft and was surprised at its size compared with the Herc.

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The first time the A400M visited Brize it was parked on the ramp alongside a C-17 and a Herc. Only then did the size of the A400M become apparent and one observer was heard to say "Who put that model Hercules in the line?"

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Sorry Dave In December 1985, a full-scale development contract was awarded for the C17, FF 1991.

Douglas knew how to get the job done!

Initial RFP was in October 1980, MDD was chosen to develop the C-17 in 1981. Politics delayed the order several years (Some wanted a lower cost alternative of modified B747 freighters or more C5s), but the design and designation certainly existed then. MDD based their proposal on the 1970s YC-15, so it was certainly more than a twinkle in MDD's eye by 1987.

Edited by Dave Fleming
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I fancy doing it in 1/72nd scale but two things put me off;

1- painting all of those propeller tips!

2- there are no markings available for an RAF one yet,........I do hope that Xtradecal might fill that void some time soon though?

Cheers

Tony

PS- I know you`ll all think that I`m strange,.....but I`d love to jump out of one! Most people have a list of aeroplanes that they would like to fly in but I also have one for aeroplanes that I`d like to parachute from too!

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I've seen the A400M in the air, and it flies well, with just the right amount of gravitas. I can't quite get used to that weird-shaped T-tail though, as it seems to get bigger near the top. Tails should taper toward the top! :lol:

From the little I know, the Hercs are clapped out, and need to go from a practical point of view. The Military can't afford to hang onto things out of sentiment, and have to move with the times, or they risk losing the battle. If a few are to be kept, at least there ought to be plenty of spares knocking about from the rest of the fleet. :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Does anyone know what the 4 things (sort of square depressions with protrusions fore and aft) are below the Pitot probes - seem to be unique to the RAF aircraft?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Airbus-A400M-Atlas/2564747/L/&sid=0a87169c34f084a231630e223eed893f

Andrew

Edit: there do seem to be others dotted around the aircraft... some sort of DAS sensors, maybe?

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The irony is the original Hercs lasted over 40 years, the 'new improved' ones look like it will be little more than 20

...primarily because we flogged the airframe hours out of them due to our commitments in the Stan, amongst other minor skirmishes.

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