roymattblack Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 For those of you out there who have been following the various Pocher builds and have commented that the kits are way too expensive..... I received the Heller 1/8 Citroen Traction Avant for my birthday yesterday and have only just had a chance to have a good peep in the box. I can only say I'm gobsmacked! Even a cursory glance at the instructions shows this model to be far and above the level of detail of any Pocher kit. An incredible level of tiny detail parts is included, right down to miniature linkages and even separate hex nuts to be glued in place. All the various mounting brackets for things such as the coil are present. You have to assemble them and fit them. The detail in and around the wheel hubs just has to be seen. There are over 1000 parts. When you consider Pocher kits list 2000 - 3000 parts, but that count includes the hundreds of nuts, bolts, screws, spokes and nipples etc, you realize that in 'actual' kit parts, the Citroen has FAR more to it. It also includes a full set of wiring looms etc that has to be fitted and connected to all the various gubbins inside the car and in the engine bay. The body includes a separate head lining that has to be fitted, and even the interior driver's mirror consists of seven parts! There are 40 sprues of parts, moulded in eight different colours. Best of all, this kit is still in current production and can be ordered direct from the Heller website, or even from Amazon. No being ripped off on Ebay. Price? £160 with free delivery. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heller-Citroen-15-CV-HEL80799/dp/B0002HZXQW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415264728&sr=8-1&keywords=heller+1%2F8+citroen A bit of shopping around will find it for less. Mine was £135 from an online model shop that currently escapes me..... That's at least a quarter of the price of a Pocher. OK.... No metal parts and it is 90% glue assembly but all I can say is, if you want a BIG, complex build project - get the Citroen. Even the box is bigger than any of the classic Pochers. You won't be disappointed. Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noeyedears Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 had a look round and am interested in their 1/8 bikes, didnt realise they were as good as they appear to be, may have to find more stash room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobs of Espresso Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I received the Heller 1/8 Citroen Traction Avant for my birthday yesterday and have only just had a chance to have a good peep in the box. I can only say I'm gobsmacked! Belated happy birthday! Price? £160 with free delivery. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heller-Citroen-15-CV-HEL80799/dp/B0002HZXQW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415264728&sr=8-1&keywords=heller+1%2F8+citroen A bit of shopping around will find it for less. Mine was £135 from an online model shop that currently escapes me..... It's beautiful! I have no space! must forget! Must forget! must forget! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Thank you very much for that, i have been following your Pocher builds with interest, and would love to build one but there is just no way i could afford that type of money, I have seen it on Amazon France for 169:96€, so as soon as my back dated pension comes through i might just treat myself to it. My local garage has got a fully restored one there which could be handy for reference pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sennapod Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 In a similar vein, does Roy or anyone else know the level of detail in the Tamiya 'premium' 1/12 Ferrari Enzo. This normally retails around £500, bit Wonderland models currently have it for £300. Does the level of detail, number of parts and general time to build it actually warrant this price? In other words, is this another 'cheap Pocher'? Any thoughts appreciated - Christmas is after all on the way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Happy Birthday Roy old man... Yes the big Avant is very exciting and complete. From that excellent long term build thread I sent the only issues besides patience is the warping of some panels and the headliner fitment. But excellent build time for the buck (pound?). I know you'll make this a treasure. So ahhh...D-Type, Spyder--what next on your plate? Senna: I have no personal experience with the Tammy Enzo but I've seen many builds where the guys buy transkits and aftermarket far above what's in the premium box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1fuN0 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hi Roy Yes, The Heller Citroen is an epic kit, and the engine is an absolute work of art. Dont be put off by previous experiences you may have had with Heller in the past, this kit is something totally different. On their 1/8th scale bikes, the old stuff does need a lot of work. You need to throw the horrible cabling rubber thingies away and replace them, and most of them you need to make your own springs for the rear suspension, but its not as hard as it sounds. They are great kits and have some unusual subjects. Heller are re releasing some of them for next year, the Laverda 750 and the Kawasaki 1000GG. The Laverda is a definate must! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) In a similar vein, does Roy or anyone else know the level of detail in the Tamiya 'premium' 1/12 Ferrari Enzo. This normally retails around £500, bit Wonderland models currently have it for £300. Does the level of detail, number of parts and general time to build it actually warrant this price? In other words, is this another 'cheap Pocher'? Any thoughts appreciated - Christmas is after all on the way.... I have the 1/12 Enzo in my stash and yes, it is a 'Pocher' kit, but of course, Tamiya quality. There is MASSES of detail, metal suspension, two different colour sets of seats, and from what I remember, around 700 parts. A truly mahoosive box crammed full. I've seen it bandied around now at below £200 so do a bit of searching. Remember there are TWO versions though. There's a 'part assembled' ready painted die cast version - very detailed but not so complex, And there's a full 'Tamiya' plastic kit - monstrous number of parts, mega detail. Both a similar price. Roy. Edited November 11, 2014 by roymattblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfriend Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I have been looking at this and recently lost out on one on e-bay. It's funny how us Pocher people seem to be looking at the same projects. Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 I have been looking at this and recently lost out on one on e-bay. It's funny how us Pocher people seem to be looking at the same projects. Larry. I do think it's a real shame the most of the manufacturers have given up on the BIG kits. I can understand the development and tooling must be mega expensive, but with the right subject, I'm sure they would sell. 250 GTO, Aston DBR1, Maserati Birdcage..... I'm sure you guys can think of many others that would have a big following. Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Been waiting on the Italeri 1/12 Fiat Mefistofele out sometime next month so they told me at Telford. Think it's a re-pop of the protar kit. Anyone know if that would be a good kit or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmonk Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Colin, I built the mefistofeles about 25 years ago great kit, big car. The chassis, wheels. and body panels were white metal, plenty of plastic and springs for the valves. I doubt if the Italeri will be metal but certainly worth the time to build it. Cheers, Warren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Looking at the image on the page below, it says 'metal parts' and the wire wheels certainly don't look like plastic. DRAT!!! There's another kit to add to the 'wants' list! http://www.scalemotorcars.com/forum/showthread.php?77080-Other-Big-Scale-news-from-the-Toy-fair-Neurenburg Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draz87 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Has anyone tried the big scale MFH kits? if so, how do they compare to the big Tamiya cars? Roy, they just did a 1/12 250 GTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I just had a peep at the MFH GTO... A tad over £400 but it looks to be worth it. Won't be on my shopping list though - not the GTO I like. Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfriend Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Gave up on resisting the Heller Citroen, so I went and bought one! Paid £148 from Model Hobbies including postage, which seems pretty good to me, and it was an excellent service from them. First impressions on opening the box........WOW! Mind you, that was my first impression on opening the Pocher Rolls as well!! But I have a feeling that this one is going to be more to my liking, apart from the French instructions, although there are limited english translations at the end. My only critisism is the delicate vacformed headlining. Might have to look into making my own!........... Oh oh, here I go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'll look forward to seeing your build thread in due course, as I won't be posting a build of mine. Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfriend Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi Roy, I stated that I purchased the kit, but I did not state when, or even if, I will be building it! Same old story, too many kits, too little time. Why will you not be posting a build thread of yours? Too many on the go at the moment? Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Partly plenty on the go, but I also get the impression the forum is suffering from 'big stuff' overkill. Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobs of Espresso Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Partly plenty on the go, but I also get the impression the forum is suffering from 'big stuff' overkill. Roy. Maybe........ but I think that there is a shortage of smaller builds as well (guilty as charge as I have not continued anything for a while). I do love the big builds because you guys inspire us to dream and the creativity that you guys put into these big beauties is amazing. I saw this today. I fell in love with it but for the equivalent of £850, I will live vicariously through you guys. Have a great weekend! Gobs Edited November 22, 2014 by Gobs of Espresso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhouse Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 "Vicariously". What a lovely word and I don't there are many forums where it is used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Vicariously - even at £850 - that's 'cheap' (in Pocher terms) for a Bugatti...... Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I do love the big builds because you guys inspire us to dream and the creativity that you guys put into these big beauties is amazing. I will live vicariously through you guys. As one of the guilty parties in big stuff, I readily understand the resistance to the cost of admission and improvement of one of these. This could be mitigated somewhat by patience and diligent shopping for a subject you really want. Foxfriend Larry has recently scored a big Citroen (as has Roy) for the cost of a small MFH kit for example. My goal in posting my thread was to foster discussion so I might learn more about my subject and to hopefully inspire fence-sitters to reach for one. I figured that showing the challenges, trouble areas and their corrections might take the dread out of one and foster more big builders. I think Roy has tried the same path by revealing his brilliant solutions to the challenges. I'm glad anyone watches but wish the build community for 1/16+ stuff would expand. There's no more magic or rocket science in the big ones as opposed to many little ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobs of Espresso Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) As one of the guilty parties in big stuff, I readily understand the resistance to the cost of admission and improvement of one of these. This could be mitigated somewhat by patience and diligent shopping for a subject you really want. Foxfriend Larry has recently scored a big Citroen (as has Roy) for the cost of a small MFH kit for example. My goal in posting my thread was to foster discussion so I might learn more about my subject and to hopefully inspire fence-sitters to reach for one. I figured that showing the challenges, trouble areas and their corrections might take the dread out of one and foster more big builders. I think Roy has tried the same path by revealing his brilliant solutions to the challenges. I'm glad anyone watches but wish the build community for 1/16+ stuff would expand. There's no more magic or rocket science in the big ones as opposed to many little ones... Thank you to Roy, you and many others who make the effort in posting your big builds. I know you all could be building behind the scenes but the effort you all put into sharing your builds in here is not only entertaining but very educational and truely inspiring. I guess I shouldn't say that I will never dive into a big build as there are really some beautiful ones that are quite reasonable but at the moment, for me, it is not a priority. Although I was wondering if it is a buyers market or a sellers market for big builds at this point for investment purposes. Gobs P.S. - I am still in love with the Bugatti I saw Edited November 30, 2014 by Gobs of Espresso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Although I was wondering if it is a buyers market or a sellers market for big builds at this point for investment purposes. Gobs All I can add to that is that I've seen Pocher kits go steadily up in price over the past few years. After all, there won't ever be any more of the 'true' Pochers (the Aventador - lovely though it is - doesn't count in my eyes) and the existing ones are slowly being built. However, as someone pointed out on a different thread, The Rolls Torpedo 'generally' sells for upward of £700+ One went on Ebay yesterday for less than half that. I paid £245 for mine, and my Alfa was £200. The Bugatti's are just daft. £1,300???? That's why they have been on Ebay for months and months..... Is it really 'worth' that much? It isn't because they are far more rare - there are always a good few on Ebay and at those prices, that's very likely where they will stay. I personally suspect Pocher kits have reached their price limit. They may be getting rarer, but at the end of the day it's a model kit. There's a limit to what the majority of people will pay and I think that's where the kits are now. Roy. Edited November 30, 2014 by roymattblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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