pigsty Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Next on pigsty's halting production line will be Hasegawa's 1/48 Hi-Grade version of XT597 in her full red-white-and-blue glory. Neither boxing of this kit has just the standard colour scheme, which I intend to do; they both feature the Phantom 25th anniversary markings. I'm now sorted for the correct tail markings (thank you Clive!) so the build can begin after a mere 26 years or so in deep stash. However, I've one lingering question about the colours. The "raspberry ripple" scheme, so far as I can tell, generally includes an Oxford Blue underside with (I think) Signal Red outer wing panels. Hasegawa's instructions advise doing the whole underside blue. Photographic references aren't being much help, as most show the underside in deep shade where it's hard to discern the colour. I'm getting faint indications that it may even have been red at some times and blue at others, and this could possibly have been linked to the 25th anniversary scheme. Can anyone clear this up for me, please? Incidentally, she's up for sale: http://www.everettaero.com/Phantom.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Never been red underneath. Roundel blue yes, but not red. Even when seen at Greenham that year in all those anniversary stickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Defo Oxford Blue. She is sitting over at Bentwaters at present. Everett's also have a metal nosecone with a probe attached for some instrumentation work. I was looking at it a couple of months back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscombe73 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Hello As I remember crawling all over this with a tape measure whilst it was resident at BDAC for a while, yes the undersides of the wings were blue, including the fold up bits, and I believe the red wrapped around the slats at front. Will have a look through my sketches, as photo's were a no no whilst she sat on site. P.S. Was wondering where the pointy nose had gone! All the best in finding more info, hopefully if it gets as much attention as my post on the jet pipe sizes, you'll be inundated! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver66 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Have a fujimi kit of XT597. Any ideas where 1/72 fin flash and emblem could could sourced for this aircraft if not wanting the 25th anniversary markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks chaps, blue it is then. Have a fujimi kit of XT597. Any ideas where 1/72 fin flash and emblem could could sourced for this aircraft if not wanting the 25th anniversary markings. So far as I can tell, the fin flash was a standard RAF tapered one as applied to a lot of Phantoms early in their career. Odd, given that XT597 was originally one of the Fleet Air Arm batch, but there you go. (The odd flash was one reason for my thread about UK fin flashes, so if anyone has any more information about this or any other, I'm all ears over there!) My own inquiries here have led to the conclusion that there's no decal on the market for the badge - assuming you mean the blue-and-gold triangular one. However, as Clive is making some up for me, I could ask him if he'd do 1/72 as well as 1/48. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver66 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes the badge on the fin behind the flash, that would be great. Yes I thought the old modeldecal sheet ( with the IAT 25th years scheme) might include it but can't find one to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerbannog Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Here are some pics where you can see the underside colour quite good (sorry for just posting links): https://www.flickr.com/photos/51657951@N06/4911229094 allmost the same but a bit better: https://www.flickr.com/photos/38381308@N04/9477381376 a bit harder to tell here but still recognizable as blue: http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00615311&size=large Hope this helps. Rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 That last one makes it very clear, thanks. It leads to another question, though. The fuel dump pipe looks to be V-shaped - the two sides aren't level but poke upwards a little. The illustration on the Hasegawa box - which purports to be a photo of the kit inside it - shows something similar. Yet the kit parts will produce a T-shaped pipe with level sides. I don't think this is an artefact of the taper, as the trailing edges of the vents are perpendicular to the axis and seem not to be level. Yet I can't find a picture that shows anything V-shaped. Am I seeing something that's not there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 That last one makes it very clear, thanks. It leads to another question, though. The fuel dump pipe looks to be V-shaped - the two sides aren't level but poke upwards a little. The illustration on the Hasegawa box - which purports to be a photo of the kit inside it - shows something similar. Yet the kit parts will produce a T-shaped pipe with level sides. I don't think this is an artefact of the taper, as the trailing edges of the vents are perpendicular to the axis and seem not to be level. Yet I can't find a picture that shows anything V-shaped. Am I seeing something that's not there? The fuel dump on British Phantoms was shortened to fit the carrier lifts it was trianglar in shape with a outlet oval each side slightly angled upwards. regards Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejboyd5 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 TESTING COLOURS by Adrian M. Balch has two 3/4 page photos of XT597 clearly showing the underside to be blue with pylons and underwing tanks in red. According to Balch's text, XT597 was delivered in "standard dark gray and white Fleet Air Arm colour scheme, which by 1977 had the fin and wingtips repainted red. XT597 was repainted in the 'raspberry ripple' scheme in time for the International Air Tattoo in July, 1983." The earlier of the two photos taken 20 July 1983 shows no markings on the red tail, while the later photograph taken 12 July 1985 shows both a fin flash and the triangular ETPS badge peculiar to some aircraft. Unfortunately, neither photograph shows the fuel dump pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 The fuel dump on British Phantoms was shortened to fit the carrier lifts it was trianglar in shape with a outlet oval each side slightly angled upwards. Aha. None of Hasegawa's Spey Phantoms has this, even though whoever made the model for the box-top must have spotted it. Ta v much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) The fuel dump on British Phantoms was shortened to fit the carrier lifts it was trianglar in shape with a outlet oval each side slightly angled upwards. regards Len Like this:- ......which by 1977 had the fin and wingtips repainted red..... When the aircraft visited Leuchars in June '82 as part of "Corporate", the outer (folding) wings had been replaced by RAF camouflaged items, DSG/DG/LAG with two colour roundels:- HTH Dennis Edited November 24, 2014 by sloegin57 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Like this:- When the aircraft visited Leuchars in June '82 as part of "Corporate", the outer (folding) wings had been replaced by RAF camouflaged items, DSG/DG/LAG with two colour roundels:- HTH Dennis That s the one lovely photos, of note aircraft with RWR fin top fairings ,had the white strobe light moved down onto the hole in the brake parachute cover . With have my near complete 892 NAS Phantom FG1 1/48 at Yeovilton show tomos,on the W Cornwall display. Regards Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeELL Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Whilst holding at Boscombe awaiting the posting to Phantom OCU, I was fortunate to fly in this YF4 K, I am only sorry that I took no photos. Mind you, photography was prohibited !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeELL Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Talking of the fuel dump facility (post by Grizzly), having flown Vulcans and Canberras with no fuel dump facilities, I then flew the phantastic Phantom WITH fuel dump! On one occasion I took a '3 bagger' (centre line tank and Sgt Fletchers) and used the full fuel load in less than 15 minutes. Pretty unacceptable in this day and age!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Talking of the fuel dump facility (post by Grizzly), having flown Vulcans and Canberras with no fuel dump facilities, I then flew the phantastic Phantom WITH fuel dump! On one occasion I took a '3 bagger' (centre line tank and Sgt Fletchers) and used the full fuel load in less than 15 minutes. Pretty unacceptable in this day and age!!! Turning & Burning TeeELL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 The triangular badge your on about I'm pretty sure was an A Sqn marking only on the phantom. I may have photo's or a sketch as again took take photos. I did a model of it in the navy colours with the probe just search my builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Another question for you. The kit comes with the usual complement of Sparrows (= Sky Flash, I'm sure) and the instructions tell you to attach two in the forward wells with one fin cut off each. I'm guessing these were weighted dummies installed for balance reasons. If so, should I remove the cable ducts and panel lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Another question for you. The kit comes with the usual complement of Sparrows (= Sky Flash, I'm sure) and the instructions tell you to attach two in the forward wells with one fin cut off each. I'm guessing these were weighted dummies installed for balance reasons. If so, should I remove the cable ducts and panel lines? Remove all the fins & paint Oxford blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Remove all the fins & paint Oxford blue I thought about that, but there are pictures that clearly show white missiles with some fins. Thunder & Lightnings, for instance (no link on account of they don't like that sort of thing). I guess that might have been special for the 25th anniversary, but there are others with the more standard markings and I like the contrast! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I thought about that, but there are pictures that clearly show white missiles with some fins. Thunder & Lightnings, for instance (no link on account of they don't like that sort of thing). I guess that might have been special for the 25th anniversary, but there are others with the more standard markings and I like the contrast! May be Sky Flash test bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 May be Sky Flash test bodies. Some are - there are a few with the full set of fins and the little phototheodolite markings on them. Others are plainer and have fewer fins. I'm bewildered, but I've started removing the cable ducts anyway, for the hell of it, and what fun that is turning out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Some are - there are a few with the full set of fins and the little phototheodolite markings on them. Others are plainer and have fewer fins. I'm bewildered, but I've started removing the cable ducts anyway, for the hell of it, and what fun that is turning out to be. There were never any Practice or Drill Skyflash ever produced. The RAF Just used Sparrow Practice rounds right through to the end of Skyflash. They were all originally white with light blue bands as delivered. The RAF didn't use "Practice" Sparrow for some reason, and The US has never used Drill rounds, (its a UK only designation) so the RAF repainted them either overall Oxford blue as used as ballast rounds on Phantoms or later gloss light aircraft grey with OB bands usually for ground training. They could be fitted with weapon response simulators internally if required. These Drill rounds were size and mass representative of the operational rounds and could be flown, which was strange as normally in the RAF Drill stores are not for flight. The Drill rounds were modified slightly with cutouts (as were The live Skyflash missiles to TEMP standard) to fit the Frazer Nash launchers on Tornado F3 The cable Ducts were left on On the OB ballast rounds but the wings and fins were normally left off. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeELL Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 As I recall, we flew with the 'ballast sparrows' at all times for CofG purposes, but QRA aircraft carried live Sparrows or Skyflash (plus the prodded Gatling gun). The ballast sparrows were blue, no fins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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