wallyinoz Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi Guys, I am building an AIM 1/72 Ambassador. I have cut out and sanded all the bits and am scribing and cutting. I cant find any good reference pics of the main undercarriage door arrangement and how the doors were positioned on the ground down and locked. Also no details at all on the engine exhaust. Hoping someone here can help with reference photos cheers wal IMG_2790005 by wallycacsabre, on FlickrIMG_2788003 by wallycacsabre, on FlickrIMG_2786001 by wallycacsabre, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Heres a couple of images. Exhausts go over the wing top. One of my Welsh Models efforts. Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys..PM responded to, Did the central fin incorporate a rudder? If it did it appears to be an improbably tightly hinged, zero - gap joint ps I just found this pic http://www.airliners.net/photo/Dan-Air-London/Airspeed-AS-57-Ambassador/1540752/L/ looks like it did have a central rudder and an idea of the exhaust arrangement is evident Edited October 22, 2014 by wallyinoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks guys..PM responded to, Did the central fin incorporate a rudder? If it did it appears to be an improbably tightly hinged, zero - gap joint ps I just found this pic http://www.airliners.net/photo/Dan-Air-London/Airspeed-AS-57-Ambassador/1540752/L/ looks like it did have a central rudder and an idea of the exhaust arrangement is evident Originally the aircraft was built with a central rudder but during flight testing it was decided to fix this in position and increase the authority of the outer rudder tabs to compensate. Indeed some photos including your shot of 'AE show the central rudder in situ and patently some if not all escaped the factory with the centre rudder still there (but fixed), perhaps to speed delivery - the a/c had begun to fall behind agreed schedules so that maybe was the reason. I worked on the BKS Ambassadors towards the end of their lives and ours all had a continuous unbroken skin on the centre fin. There is a nice photo in 'Airspeed - The Company and its Aeroplanes' by D.H. Middleton which is of the back end, showing both rudders deflected but the centre one cleanly faired and it possibly has had the skinning mod too since it looks smooth. The exhaust for the Centaurus were brought out of the engine at the top via two pipes grouped behind that raised wedgy structure at the 12 o'clock position. Were you aware of a build article in a small booklet entitled 'Scale Model Aircraft from Vac-form Kits' by Hugh Markham, which includes references to the Contrail version of your kit ? Not a lot of info but nice to know it is buildable. I have a few of these kits laid by myself so I am watching yours with interest. Cheers, Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Hi Nige.. thanks that solves the mystery of the central rudder, wasn't aware of that booklet. I have the Transport wings version of that kit, I understand it uses much thicker plastic than on the Contrail original. The engine moldings are "clunky" and soft so I will have to do something about that..to try and better represent the very clean lines of the cowling / nacelles. Another problem with the kit is that the fuselage to wing fairings shape would give the model lots of dihedral. The real thing didnt have any show I will have to change the shape of these fairings cheers wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hi Wally. I'm planning a visit to Duxford, I will see if I can get some photos for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hi Wally. I'm planning a visit to Duxford, I will see if I can get some photos for you. thanks mate, but I have now received enough pics from wonderful modellers all over the world to work out all those grey areas, actually all the info shows what a great deal of work would be required to get "it" right.... I am afraid my skills aren't going to be up to what is required.. I'll give it a go though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hi Nige.. thanks that solves the mystery of the central rudder, wasn't aware of that booklet. I have the Transport wings version of that kit, I understand it uses much thicker plastic than on the Contrail original. The engine moldings are "clunky" and soft so I will have to do something about that..to try and better represent the very clean lines of the cowling / nacelles. Another problem with the kit is that the fuselage to wing fairings shape would give the model lots of dihedral. The real thing didnt have any show I will have to change the shape of these fairings cheers wal Wal, I believe there is a slight mistake with the wing/body join and this is mentioned somewhere in a review or kit build but I haven't got the reference unfortunately. If memory serves, the whole centre section needs raising a bit. The attached photo might help. If you run into probs with that thick plastic AIM kit, I probably have a spare Contrail one somewhere which I could make available- keep that up your sleeve. Best wishes, Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltmertins Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Great job on that Welsh kit! Such great looking airplane, I wish I would have seen one fly. Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Y Wal, I believe there is a slight mistake with the wing/body join and this is mentioned somewhere in a review or kit build but I haven't got the reference unfortunately. If memory serves, the whole centre section needs raising a bit. The attached photo might help. If you run into probs with that thick plastic AIM kit, I probably have a spare Contrail one somewhere which I could make available- keep that up your sleeve. Best wishes, Nige That is right Nige, the kit wing fairings and wing to fuselage join would give the model heaps of dihedral which the real one didnt have, I am not sure that filling and leveling off the space between the wings over the fuselage is going to be enough.. I think that area will have to be shaved down flat a little.. time will tell.. I hope I don't have to resort to getting another kit but it's nice to know there is one out there! cheers wal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Y That is right Nige, the kit wing fairings and wing to fuselage join would give the model heaps of dihedral which the real one didnt have, I am not sure that filling and leveling off the space between the wings over the fuselage is going to be enough.. I think that area will have to be shaved down flat a little.. time will tell.. I hope I don't have to resort to getting another kit but it's nice to know there is one out there! cheers wal I also have some artists cutaway type illustrations which are obviously 'artistic' but might be of use to you further down the line, in particular, scrap views of the u/c mechanics and retraction geometry for nose and mains. Let me know if and when you want them and I'll post up a few on here. Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Great job on that Welsh kit! Such great looking airplane, I wish I would have seen one fly. Walter Thanks walter, I built 5 of those kits for a group of ex apprentices (I'm one of them). We all worked an awful lot on G-AMAD during it's conversion and it did seem to lay the ghost a little on the dreadful accident which befell it and hung over us a bit. All wanted 'AD but I also did a second one for myself of 'ZR. The 'Lizzie' was a real performer in it's day and during the take off run, the nose came up almost immediately and it ran down the runway in that spectacular manner. Wonder if there is any footage of that anywhere? Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes! Take off with snappy undercarriage retraction on British Pathe http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-duke-flies-bea/query/bea+elizabethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Great link, thanks Re the undercarriage retraction...normal then and not as quick as many types Yorks, Tudors etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyinoz Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Great link, thanks Re the undercarriage retraction...normal then and not as quick as many types Yorks, Tudors etc. I have been doing a bit of research on this, the Flight Magazine highlighted the faired undercarriage and fast retraction sequence as part of the type's ,excellent for the time, single engine performance, those front main u/c doors are always closed except for the short time to let the wheels go up and down. Another interesting feature is that on the midline of the fuselage under the pilots positions on each side some lights are faired in ( I though they were strange shaped windows) I presume the lights are designed to illuminate the U/C and engine nacelles to facilitate visual inspections by night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltmertins Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 WOW! What a great film, thanks for sharing! Pretty cool door mechanism. I wonder how many people bang their head? The central fin does not appear to have a rudder in that particular time and airplane. Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks Wal for sharing that. Nice view of the tail end at around 3:20mins in. The lights were 'ice inspection' and shone back to the l/e and engines as you have worked out. U/c retraction speed was crucial in those days just in case an engine failed at the wrong moment, although the Ambassador was one of the first to be quite comfortably off on one engine. Indeed, it was, I believe, the first commercial aircraft to fully comply with the then new regulations BCARs, the post war legal airworthiness regulations. Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 thanks mate, but I have now received enough pics from wonderful modellers all over the world to work out all those grey areas, actually all the info shows what a great deal of work would be required to get "it" right.... I am afraid my skills aren't going to be up to what is required.. I'll give it a go though! Ah well. I went today and managed to grab all I wanted as she's outside on the pan. Got some other stuff as well so it wasn't a wasted trip. Full colour and hi res. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Thanks walter, I built 5 of those kits for a group of ex apprentices (I'm one of them). We all worked an awful lot on G-AMAD during it's conversion and it did seem to lay the ghost a little on the dreadful accident which befell it and hung over us a bit. All wanted 'AD but I also did a second one for myself of 'ZR. The 'Lizzie' was a real performer in it's day and during the take off run, the nose came up almost immediately and it ran down the runway in that spectacular manner. Wonder if there is any footage of that anywhere? Nige B I was stood on the south side (A30 crash gate) opp Caines Lane when that happened. We were just stood around chatting, then all this noise,turned 'round a saw the wing tip to tip pile up with 2* Tridents and a Viscount. A friend of mine was in the Terminal One building site (you could still get into it then) and a prop landed about 20 feet from him. The Race Horses were being shot by the RSPCA (I think) on the Apron. Parts ended up roughly in the area taken by T1 when it was completed. The broken fuse ended up against the Europa Later T2 /Queens Building There was a guy stood about 50 feet us with a cine camera filming the crash within about 1/2 hour someone from ITN or BBC came past and asked about any photo's this guy offered them his camera he got in the car and went off and his film,as far as I know is the only film of the crash,ended up on the News later. * RPI and RPT. Tango' lost the aft fuse and written off. India,lost part of the Fin & T/P and was repaired (both were parked outside the BEA Hangars seemed like months) That crashed near the Crooked Billet,Staines in 72. Edited October 24, 2014 by bzn20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Mc Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I remember seeing the footage on the news. It seems to have disappeared and I haven't seen it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I remember seeing the footage on the news. It seems to have disappeared and I haven't seen it since. It was up on You Tube a while back but not any more methinks. Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Can't link but it is certainly about...watched it within the last week. G-ARPT was sold to Channel airways as pares...don't know why as it was a completely different type of Trident to their 1E's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Can't link but it is certainly about...watched it within the last week. G-ARPT was sold to Channel airways as pares...don't know why as it was a completely different type of Trident to their 1E's. Hi Garry, just components I expect for very little cost. Nige B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hi Nigel Puzzeled though...different engines...all wrecked, different wing, different systems??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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