Ade Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Though this might make an interesting what if.... http://www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk/Lincolnshire-s-Red-Arrows-replaced-second-hand/story-23116497-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't thinks, I don't see that one flying, sorry. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I saw the story and thought it was interesting. I think there is a better chance of me flying for the Reds than government coughing up for for some Vipers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 would probably be cheaper buying new hawks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Of course it would be, military procurement would be much cheaper if certain companies weren't involved. Can you imagine if procurement involved the military looking in Janes at what they wanted, tested several companies products, finding what gave best value and function and brought it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Neu- Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Of course it would be, military procurement would be much cheaper if certain companies weren't involved. Can you imagine if procurement involved the military looking in Janes at what they wanted, tested several companies products, finding what gave best value and function and brought it? Oh if only the defence market looked like that... unfortunately it works nothing like a "regular" market. If countries did what you suggest, there would likely only be one manufacturer in the western world (Lockheed Martin), and nothing else. Competition matters only to a certain point.... production capacity is a massive determinant of cost and function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 it wouldnt be the red arrows any more .. red white and blue stripes arrows... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) The quote referred to in the article actually came from a piece in October's Air Forces Monthly about the Fleet Air Arm's 736 Squadron which suggested the F-16s might be considered as replacements for that unit's Hawk T.Mk1s; it didn't make any reference to the Red Arrows even though the main stream media know that the RAFAT is the only operator of the Hawk! Edited October 12, 2014 by Richard E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feldr Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 apart from which, negotiations with BAe are apparently being done for a strategy to solve it, and the out date for the Hawks is 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The quote referred to in the article actually came from a piece in October's Air Forces Monthly about the Fleet Air Arm's 736 Squadron which suggested the F-16s might be considered as replacements for that unit's Hawk T.Mk1s; it didn't make any reference to the Red Arrows even though the main stream media know that the RAFAT is the only operator of the Hawk! thanks for that richard .. does BAE still make hawks ?? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC1966 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 01 April already...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Aerobatic Team Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 it wouldnt be the red arrows any more .. red white and blue stripes arrows... I couldn't agree more! It's a disgrace even thinking about a Viper in red! There is no aircraft more representable of Great Britain than the Bae. Hawk flying for the Reds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Red Arrows with second worn out F-16s..... What about SAAB Gripens.....or what about L-39s??? Or Hawk T2s that would still keep British aircraft in a British team sounds much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeyboy76 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I have read that the Navy were looking at a few F16s to replace their Hawks in the Aggressor role, while the RAF will use the T2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magwitch Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 would probably be cheaper buying new hawks... Not really. The last Hawk T2 deal for the RAF was about 16 million UKP per airframe. Belgium sold F-16 MLUs to Jordan for less than 4 million UKP each. It's still not going to happen though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 And, of course, the cost of establishing the necessary support for the F-16s isn't factored in, even if you managed to cut some sort of deal which saw type conversion being conducted in the US. As we binned the Harrier largely because of the need to reduce the number of aircraft fleets, bringing the F-16 in would involve a number of rather tricky conversations with the Treasury... The author of the AFM article is on PPrune and sounds less than happy with the way in which the Express (the source which the Lincolnshire Echo's picked up on) handled their er... re-interpretation of his article. Of course, we have to bear in mind that the Express has become obsessed with the Red Arrows in the last decade or thereabouts and anything that mentions Hawk replacements can be spun in a number of ways. Apart from accurately, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch K Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think in the present (never ending) financial straits, this is a more likely scenario: http://www.redbarrows.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 lets just get 9 spitfires ... for the red arows.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl_five_zero Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 lets just get 9 spitfires ... for the red arows.. Could you imagine?! The sound alone would be enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_B Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Use the Tranche 1 Typhoons we seem so eager to discard, they would be ideal for these secondary roles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch K Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Would Tucanos be a solution? A bit pedestrian, I know, but no purchase costs, minimal additional support costs, no fleet type increase... The Treasury might even swallow it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnid Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Russian Grand Prix display team in L39 Albertrosses on Sunday!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd rather see the Reds disband and swallow their pride in their 50th anniversary year rather than have the F-16 in red!! I can't imagine a more boring RIAT with one F-16 after another already at such shows let alone another 7 or 9 red ones tearing around the sky added. Just not the same. I sincerely hope it is the media getting it wrong as always. Lightening it up a bit, who will be the first with a model one here in any scale??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I wonder how many Gnats could be made airworthy? That would be interesting!! I expect it will be Hawk T2's though because the Reds T1's have/had a secondary war role so 10 red T2's would be easy to re-spray Air Defence Grey if necessary. Not as pretty as the T1 IMHO - mabe okay with the T1 nose? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If they are to remain operating, I think BAE Systems and others would do a 'special price' deal. They are ambassadors for the RAF, BAE Systems and Britain Plc. There would be a public/private partnership with the aircraft owned by a contractor (a bit like Airtanker I suppose), with a guaranteed minimum availability. If numbers became critical due to accidents etc., then 4 FTS would need to dib in. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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