JohnT Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I am reading The Silver Spitfire by Tom Neil and he writes about a visit he made to an RAF Squadron at Ford near Arundel. He refers to 19 and 316 Polish Squadrons What my grabbed attention was when he wrote that he was told that 19 Sqn had undertaken escort missions for 8th USAAF all the way to Berlin and back. I knew that the RAF had provided what might have been described entry and exit cover but not all the way. Anyone know more about the deep penetration cover by the RAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 It's not something I've ever seen reference too, and I'm sure Roger Freeman would have included some reference to this in his works. Have a look in 8th AF Diary to see which units were used on which missions. By this time the USAAF had more than enough fighters to provide their own cover. It might have been sensible for the RAF to carry out some such mission, as part of training for similar work with their own heavies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I always thought they were used to escort missions to Norway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Also for Bomber Command daylight missions into Northern Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Bonsai Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 A neighbour once told me he was to fly with his RAF Mustang squadron low level to Berlin with some Mosquitoes though he had to return early with engine trouble. Often wondered what that would have been like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thanks for the input guys I have been trawling about the net to see what 19 Sqn got up to. It seems clear that the RAF got their Mustangs before they were available to the USAAF in numbers and while that "gap" existed they did do escort cover for the 8th Air Force. Where to and how far I can't find out Once the USAAF had enough Mustangs of their own the RAF Squadrons appear to have moved on to long range escort for UK forces such as Costal Command forays to Norway I would love to get proof of escort missions to Berlin though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wag Haw made reference to flying sorties to Berlin - this is quoted in the Osprey RAF Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces book - but he was with 129 Squadron rather than 19. I suspect that a quick perusal of the 19 Squadron ORBs from the National Archives (in Air 27 and almost certainly digitised at £3.30 per file) or Derek Palmer's book would confirm; I have the latter, but think it is on the shelf in my office rather than here at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 A few other points to bear in mind - the early Merlin Mustangs were not capable of such long range missions - only those modified by the Long Range Programme i.e. fuel tank in the fuselage behind the cockpit. The RAF received some Mustangs fairly early on, more-or-less in line with the USAAF deliveries, but these will not have been LRP aircraft. My understanding is that later deliveries to the RAF were delayed because of preference being given the US, this probably applying to the Ds in late summer early autumn 1944. The RAF Mustang units moved onto the Continent in mid-1944, being withdrawn soon after for Diver (V1) duties. So there would only be a narrow window for long range bomber escort duties in 1944. I believe I have seen photos of RAF Mustang Mk.IIIs with the small white cross denoting the aft tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I had a look in Palmer's history of 19 Squadron this afternoon. This gives us the following detail: 4 Mar 1944: 19 provided cover to B-17s which had bombed Berlin, meeting them over Leipzig. 6 Mar 1944: cover for B-17s which had bombed Berlin, meeting them 110 miles west of the target Then, on 9 Mar 1944 - cover to B-17s bombing Berlin. The entry is unclear as to whether this was escort to Berlin, or another case of meeting the bombers as they returned. The way in which the entry refers to the RV with the bombers over Celle suggests that it was on the way out from the target; in any event, no enemy aircraft were seen. 24 Mar 1944: the squadron escorted B-17s to Schweinfurt 30 Mar 1944: escorted bombers attacking airfields South West of Bremen. This was pretty much the last notable operation over Germany, with the squadron moving over to 2TAF to support OVERLORD; the squadron then moved to France in July, returning to the UK at the end of September so that it could perform escort duties again, but this time to Bomber Command. Edit - and Coastal Command, for that matter. Edited October 13, 2014 by XV107 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Thanks guys Learned a lot from that Even 110 miles from Berlin is not too shabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete610 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 They had the capability to go 'all the way' - but if fuel was compromised by say a dogfight on the way - they simply would not have the gas to complete the whole return journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The P-51B was used for long range escorts from arrival in Europe late in -43, but availability of the type wasn't great until after Big Week in Feb -44. So long range Escorts did occur early on. As the RAF P-51B/C's were camoflaged, most of the datablocks were also painted over in the process. A few other points to bear in mind - the early Merlin Mustangs were not capable of such long range missions - only those modified by the Long Range Programme i.e. fuel tank in the fuselage behind the cockpit. The RAF received some Mustangs fairly early on, more-or-less in line with the USAAF deliveries, but these will not have been LRP aircraft. My understanding is that later deliveries to the RAF were delayed because of preference being given the US, this probably applying to the Ds in late summer early autumn 1944. The RAF Mustang units moved onto the Continent in mid-1944, being withdrawn soon after for Diver (V1) duties. So there would only be a narrow window for long range bomber escort duties in 1944. I believe I have seen photos of RAF Mustang Mk.IIIs with the small white cross denoting the aft tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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