Rabbit Leader Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Greetings all, Does anyone know what type of propellers where used on the 'original' civil DC-3's equipped with Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines? Although I'm sure they are not correct, however to my eyes, the prop and spinner that comes with the 1/72 Matchbox Lysander look quite similar. I have posted a separate 'wants' post for a spare prop here if anyone has one - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966944-matchbox-172-lysander-prop-spinner-any-condition/ Failing that, does anyone know of any aftermarket props that are available in 1/72 scale. Cheers and thanks for looking.. Dave. Edited September 5, 2014 by Rabbit Leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 According to the Air Britain book on the DC-3, DC-3s used 3-bladed Hamilton Standard 3E50 props, 11 ft 6 3/8 in. in diameter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Dave, I'd have to agree with Space Ranger on this, see here I know that is a restored one but I'm not seeing anything that suggests they weren't, also, it looks like it was the same prop regardless of whether it was a Cyclone or Twin Wasp spinning it. Quickboost do a set for PBYs which would give you a nice matched pair. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Thanks Michael & Steve, The HS 3E50 certainly looks like the props used on these early pre-war DC-3's. I'm pretty sure that this was a non-feathering prop and it appears that they have slightly different (narrower and pointier) blades to the later Wasp powered DC-3's. .. those Quickboost PBY props, however don't look half bad. I'm looking at making this version with short cowl - http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/Dakota-A30-2/Douglas_DC3_A30_2_VH_UZK However in these drab RAAF colours - http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/Dakota-A30-1/A30_1 Once again - Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 The shiny one looks to have the lidded cowls like Red Roo do as a resin conversion, are those what you're using Dave? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 The Red Roo set is plan B, should things turn cactus? I've got the Academy B-17C which comes with another set of engine cowls and some pretty bad 9 cylinder engines. I've been hacking away for a short while and (to my utter surprise) my home-made conversion efforts do not look too bad. I have used all four cowls to make two new ones and will eventually buy the Quickboost B-17 engines to replace the two I have stolen. If it works out, this should alleviate that solid resin engine look which I'm not a real fan of. Chances are however, that I'll wreck it and either park the whole project or cough up for the resin engines. Time will tell. Cheers .. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Greetings all, Does anyone know what type of propellers where used on the 'original' civil DC-3's equipped with Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines? Although I'm sure they are not correct, however to my eyes, the prop and spinner that comes with the 1/72 Matchbox Lysander look quite similar. I have posted a separate 'wants' post for a spare prop here if anyone has one - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966944-matchbox-172-lysander-prop-spinner-any-condition/ Failing that, does anyone know of any aftermarket props that are available in 1/72 scale. Cheers and thanks for looking.. Dave. The new Airfix kit includes them as well as the more familiar HS ones!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Paul, I haven't quite got around to buying the Airfix kit, however was always keen to wait until the RAF version and Jeep came out. I've seen some of the sprue shots and they are certainly there alright - who would have thought?? I was under the impression that these were only used on the Single row Cyclones and not the Twin row Wasps - you learn something everyday!! So which decal version do these props apply too? Cheers and thanks .. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 So which decal version do these props apply too? Cheers and thanks .. Dave Hmm. That remains to be seen! The kit, among several other parts not applicable to what ever version, also includes intakes that attach to the sides of the engine cowl as seen on many Canadian Daks. eg: the Buffalo Airways Daks to which, those other props can also be fitted!! So who knows how many more issues of the kit we will see!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Are you doing a pre-war one or the post-war ANA modification? If the latter, it could have been either type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Are you doing a pre-war one or the post-war ANA modification? If the latter, it could have been either type. Admiral, My intention is to do one of the four pre-war versions as operated by the RAAF as A30-1 to A30-4 (Sep 39 - mid 1940) - see the links in post #4. The numerous photos I have studied do suggest some type of engine modification after they were handed back to ANA. Do you have any clues as to when this may have occured? Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I have a pile of stuff from Mr Hopton (the Elegant) on this, which I'll have to dig out. I'll get back to you. DC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 I have a pile of stuff from Mr Hopton (the Elegant) on this, which I'll have to dig out. I'll get back to you. DC Much Appreciated .. that would be fantastic. Cheers ..Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 OK - I've found John's material, and it isn't that helpful from your point of view. The principal reference I have from him is a paper he prepared some time ago on DC-2s and DC-3/C-47s in Australia, particularly during the Second Great Unpleasantness. He makes mention of ANA's four pre-war acquisitions, but mainly to debunk the oft-expressed view that they were impressed by the RAAF at the outbreak of war - they were not, but rather were chartered and handed back at the end of the charter period. He refers to an article in Man and Aerial Machines No 39, which apparently sets out full details of the transaction. Unfortunately I don't have a copy, but will ask him when next I speak to him - since he wrote it, he should have a copy ... From what I hold it appears that none of the ANA aircraft were re-engined during the period of the charter, retaining their Cyclone GR.1820s for the whole of the term. If you do manage to dig up evidence to the contrary I would be interested to see it - you may gather that this is a subject quite dear to me. The photos I have all show ANA's pre-war DC-3s having the narrow blades, and I think it's a fair bet to say that this did not change during the period of the charter. From what I've been able to discover, the wide bladed HS prop did not come into use until later in the war, and was a retrofit for many C-47s in post-war civil use because it gave better performance in high density altitude conditions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Admiral, This is all fascinating information and confirms any doubts as to the engine & prop combination whilst in RAAF service during 1939-40. The chartered vs. impressed piece is also the first I've ever heard of this acquisition described as such. I only am only aware of four-five photographs of these machines in RAAF service, two-three famous ones of A30-1 after it's Canberra nose over accident, one side view in Ian K Bakers part of RAAF colours (Douglas Transports #22) and a front-on view of an aircraft climbing in Stewart Wilson's series of RAAF a/c (DC-3, Caribou & Hercules). These may be the only ones in existence, however if you are aware of any others (especially to confirm the camouflage pattern) they would be pure gold.. Cheers ..and once again many thanks.. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I have another which confirms the retention of the pre-war cowls and appears to be Dark Green (OD?) over black, and shows spinners fitted. I don't know which of the four it is - unfortunately it's been taken from a three-quarter front view, and the wing obscures the serial. If you'd like a copy, flick me an email -davebclark(at)bigpond.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Dave, Personel email sent. Cheers.. Dave F-K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 hub 23E50 + blade 6477, same on C47, B17, B25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 How will you deal with the different undercarriage? (this is a question to myself, too! - still no answer) Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 How will you deal with the different undercarriage? (this is a question to myself, too! - still no answer) Carlos Carlos .... this is probably something I do not want to know about... I'll have to recheck my references, however this different undercarriage issue is the first I've heard of. Cheers .. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I don't know exactly about the differences but the undercarriage was strengthened to support the extra weight when the engines changed to R-1830. I also must check my references, but it would be good to hear from someone with knowledge on the subject. Would it be the same as in the DC-2? Edit: Reading the recent issue of Aviation Classics on the subject I learned that the undercarriage was extended from the DC-2 to the DC-3. And, if I remember well, it was the C-47 that had a strengthened undercarriage comparing with the early DC-3 and that was extensively retro-fitted to many of the earlier airframes. So the need of a different undercarriage may depend on the date that your model is depicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 I've checked numerous photographs of Wright Cyclone & P&W engined DC-3's and have to admit that I cannot see any differences with either of their Undercarraige components. Perhaps they were designed and modified in such a way to accomodate the extra weight, however from a design and look presective in 1/72 scale, I cannot establish any clear differences. Carlos - thanks for raising this question, I'd be happy to hear from others who may know more information about DC-3 undercarts. Cheers .. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertopinal Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have no documentation but i remeber and old article, probably in Air something magazine, describing the DC-2 and early civilian DC-3 undercarriage made of welded steel tubes and the C-47 made with forged parts and more stonger. By sure, from the memory of the father of a friend, the AERONAVALI in Venice after the war made a lot of modification at pre-war and early C-47 changing the undercarriage; unluckly no more details.............. r. p.s. really interesting post because i'm dreaming to build a pre-war ducth DC-3 who flow as war-booty with Regia Aeronautica in 1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSJohnson Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Tip when researching allied aircraft. The US Federal Aviation Administration keeps Type Certificate Data Sheets for any aircraft certified for flight in the United States. This may include aircraft, engines or appliances manufactured in other nations. For the Super DC=3 the TCDS is held by Boeing as they acquired Douglas holdings as part of the merger of the two companies. Type Certificate Data Sheet page http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/Frameset?OpenPage Super DC-3 TCDS http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/1a38d669a95d342e862577dc00579e52/$FILE/6A2 Rev 9.pdf You scroll down in the document to locate the aircraft, engine or propeller section you are looking for. In this case: 1. Propellers (a) 2 Ham Std., Hubs 23E50, Blades 6615-0 to 6615-3, 851 lbs. (+101.5) Diameter 11'6 1/4" max., 11' 3 1/4" min. allowable for repairs. Pitch settings at 42" sta.: Min. low +18°; feathered +88° approximately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 I just found this thread. I have an old Esci 1/72 R4D-5. It has suffered in various house moves and is missing many parts, including propellers and undercarriage. I can buy aftermarket wheels from a couple of manufacturers and SAC do a whitemetal undercarriage set. I wondered if anyone had a particular favourite recommendation for a replacement propeller set for this Naval variant? Would B-17/ B-25 props be appropriate? I'm not sure if the Quickboost Catalina props discussed above would be ok? I do have a set of these earmarked for a Cat. All best regards TonyT PS: If anyone has any such parts and/or more in the spares bin please send me a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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