robvulcan Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Nice work I wondered what them holes were in the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Cheers Rob, they're part of the swing wing mechanism, as the wings close so the gaps are filled. Because the unswept wing angle was wrong the gaps didn't show but as soon as you move the angle to the correct 25 degrees they become exposed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaker Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Gosh darn it General, you did this to me on your TSR2 build. I was blissfully unaware of the shape issues then you execute a flawless modification to correct it and I'm sat looking at a funny shaped model! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbeach84 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Ain't it always the case, Breaker? Regards, Robert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Epic stuff and it all comes flooding back to me. Wing sweep seals (engines running) are at 8PSI above ambient air pressure. There, you always wanted to know that. Of course, it's a secret so don't tell anyone. The ones you fitted look a bit rumpled. The are actually quite stiff & trying to get your hand between them always reminded me of James Herriot at Calving time! The ramp voids (bleed slots) should be parallel. On some kits I've seen a slope from inboard to outboard. The blanks are certainly parallel & a couple of inches deep if memory serves. That is all. Rehab Out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 With the wings forwards will the leading edge slat fit at the wing root/glove area?, you may find its a bit tight. The wing seals come in may shapes and conditions- Look at the state of this one!! This was a jet at the Yeovilton show. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 I apologise breaker, it's my OCD kicking in !...I'm afraid I'm a confirmed rivet counter but don't make any excuse for it...I was like it as a nipper always modifying kits and making my own parts when needed. I guess it's just got a bit more involved as time has taken its cruel toll. Trouble is wrong is wrong to me and if I can I'll do something about it, I'm not really a 'that'll do' type...Oh well if it helps anyone then the insanity is worth it.. Rehabitual Pete thanks for the insight.........8 psi eh ... always reminded me of James Herriot at Calving time! So now we know what you get up to in your spare time The bleed slots are nice and level once the lid's screwed down... Pete, when I visited Coningsby some years ago courtesy of a friend of mine who was a backseater on F.3's, ( I know, I know.... it's not a real Tornado but it's pretty close !), I was allowed to crawl over a few of the jets . A small group of technical types were looking at a wing seal that was cut to ribbons wondering just what the crew had been doing to cause such a mess !.......as I got under the starboard wing I looked up and saw a rather nasty piece of flap which somehow had been badly chewed up and following the sweep angle deduced that this was the cause of all the damage........they had been there over 45 minutes so I let them carry on talking for further ten minutes before pointing it out.........needless to say I wasn't asked back !! But like Shauns photo above a few of the seals looked pretty ropey to be fair. Shaun, yes that did cross my mind too !......but luckily it just fits, though it might need a little trim once everythings on......looking at that photo it's nice to see that Revell even got the shallow indent at the rear of the seal correct..........doesn't make up for the sweep angle though... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomjw Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 This is looking excellent. Now that you have pointed out the wing sweep issue, I am going to have to check out its big brother because it didn't look right to me in 1/32. Would the scrap resin be from a certain Buccanneer you happen to be working on? That'll go down well in the upper echelons of the RAF. Keep up the great work. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Brilliant work, loving this totally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thanks Marty, glad you like it.... Tom, I've noticed this problem on quite a few Tornado models, it would certainly be a good idea to check the big one while you're at it before it's too late...another thing to check is the wing droop. This one has the same problem as many others in that it just isn't enough, (not sure what the loaded angle should be) but most kits seem to have them near horizontal in an unloaded position, I'm guessing this is so that they can be swept back and still remain level. I heated the area with my trusty Dyson Cyclone hairdryer, (yes still got some!) and gently bent the wings down until they looked right using a steel rule to check equal measurements, I'll show this later. Luckily no creaking or cracking was heard so it seems everything's OK...certainly looks a lot more accurate.... Well this just gets better !...thinking about what Shaun said re the slats inner ends not fitting properly now that the sweep angle has been adjusted I dry fitted them and yes there is a problem. I wondered if this was because Revell had taken the measurements from their incorrect sweep angle and had the fairing fit the wing !...lo and behold they have cocked up the shape of the pivot glove. Revell have the outer edge running in a straight line from top to bottom whereas it should be a nice subtle curve...this explains the discrepancy... Bear in mind this isn't quite to scale but again I'm showing the shape so please ignore the slight size difference.... Horror !! The reason the slat fouls the glove, the problem with removing plastic at the front is that it may well interfere with the Kruger flaps underneath which though fixed will still need reshaping and filling... It actually needs some adding rather than taking away but that would involve casting whole new wing gloves so it's out with the scalpel and sanding sticks.........wish me luck.......I'm going in !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I love it. One problem leads to another problem again as again. Sometimes gets to the point that you might as well start the whole thing from scratch. Good luck though I don't think you need it as I am sure you secretly practice some dark art and must be a magician on the quiet as these scratch built marvels and corrections seem to just materialise in your hands by thought. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Very informative thread. Thanks for laying it all out. I'll be referring to this when I build mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixup_1 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Loving this build! Cockpit is something else. Thank u for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thanks chaps, Rob ...no dark art......just trying to get it right. Callum, hope it's useful... OK the gloves have been reshaped for a better fit, I sanded off the location lug rings underneath each glove half too as these were more hindrance than help, then gently bent the gloves to follow the contour of the wing surface with the added droop... Looking more Tornado like now...The rear fuselage section was a poor fit so I sanded off all the location ridges and just butted it against the fuselage for a better flush fit....the airbrake doors are also a poor fit so a couple of blobs of Blu Tack were added to each bay and the doors pressed down into them to get the contour fit as good as possible before running Plastic Weld around the seams then I'll add a touch of filler..............remembering to add the tailplane mounts first !! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It definitely looks like a Tornado now. I hope they follow up with an F3 be nice to have the two next to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerbannog Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Nice idea with the blue tac - but I wonder: Will Blue Tac soften the plastic like Vinyl over the long term by migration of flexibilizer? Or does Blue Tac not contain such??? I never left it on plastic for very long so I cannot tell if anything bad happens. Rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Nice idea with the blue tac - but I wonder: Will Blue Tac soften the plastic like Vinyl over the long term by migration of flexibilizer? Or does Blue Tac not contain such??? I never left it on plastic for very long so I cannot tell if anything bad happens. Rene Ive never known blue tak react with paint or plastic. All that happens is over many many many years decades even it can dry shrink and rattle around inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Rob...I think an F.3 might well be on the cards if the moulds are anything to go by as there seems to be recesses for the AMRAMM/Skyflash bays which have been filled for this release and cut aways on one of the forward bulkheads... ...so maybe. Rene, I've never had a problem with the stuff over the years, (I use a lot for holding nose weights, etc) and think Rob might be right in that it might shrink....I've only used a tiny glob, just enough to hold the piece in the correct position while the glue sets... I've found something else ..........the navs instrument unit...the Revell offering is undersize and needs bulking out. I thought this when I first test fitted it but now looking at photos of a GR1A in the Verlinden Lock On book it seems that the whole thing is just too small. Never mind, Airfix to the rescue !!...I have an old 1/48th GR1 boxing that someone gave me light years ago which has the unit built in to the upper decking. This is much nearer the real size and so I'll be using this plus a fair bit of scratchwork. Hopefully some of the Eduard instrument set can be transferred over to it.... This is as far as I've got, as you can see I've started with the Plasticard....... And fitted.........I'll adjust the angle of the CRT boxes a bit, (the Revell one has them almost flat !!), just need some more detailing, a dash of paint and then the Eduard sets moved over.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 That is why I like your builds, you have a solution to any problems. Hope it is a trick of the light but it looks like there is a bulge on the top of the fin. Rob - I prefer the F3 over the GR1 so yes hopefully one will be along. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneheadff Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 That is a wonderful build log, General. Thanks for sharing!!! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 That is why I like your builds, you have a solution to any problems. Hope it is a trick of the light but it looks like there is a bulge on the top of the fin. Rob - I prefer the F3 over the GR1 so yes hopefully one will be along. Robert Me too I always preferred the GR1 but I love both and over the recent years I appreciate the F3 more than I did when I was a kid. As a child my main reason for preferring the GR1 was how much more noisy if was. I always found the F3 lacking something on the musical side to the GR1. I tell you what though compared to some of the weak stuff I see now (Cessna) I would do anything to hear the F3 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I was keeping quiet about the wing gloves and hoping you wouldn't notice. Now you'll just vent your wrath on Darling. Tsk. I see what Robert is referring to. Post 139. The fincap should have a nice sharp point on top. It seems not to on the picture. Nice save on the Nav kit. I had a PM asking why the Italeri kit has the intake tops sloping up towards the cockpit. So far as I remember they should be flat. I've built a couple in the past & noticed it myself. I wondered if this kit had it too. Also, I think on that kit the fuselage sloped down from the spine fairings towards the edges whereas I remember it being fairly flat. Do you have the Italeri for a comparison? Nurse! More pills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I had a PM asking why the Italeri kit has the intake tops sloping up towards the cockpit. So far as I remember they should be flat. I've built a couple in the past & noticed it myself. I wondered if this kit had it too. Also, I think on that kit the fuselage sloped down from the spine fairings towards the edges whereas I remember it being fairly flat. Do you have the Italeri for a comparison? Nurse! More pills! The intakes and upper decking do slope at the rear, look at this pic http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/9/8/1013899.jpg General Melchett, also note the gap at the wing root-slat join area Shaun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 In my defence m'lud, It was nearly 25 years ago that I was wandering around these things. I call my first witness, My shrink..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyWan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 That looks amazing General! I'm going to have to grab those replacement wing seals for my own build. Great work so far, can't wait to see more - I am taking notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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