Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hi all, Been working on Revell's new Spitfire over on Large Scale Planes and it's suddenly dawned on me it might be of interest over here. OK - before I wade in - I won't pretend this is in any way definitive - it will include some mods I'll make following reference to photos/drawings/published dimensions/other kits - but my aim is to make a nice looking Spitfire - something I think easily achievable with this kit. What's more - it cost me the princely sum of £18 and I'd hate to waste it! For anyone that followed my He219 build I'd like to keep this thread on a similar - and positive - note throughout. Please chip in if you spot anything - and feel free to throw in discussion points. So - before I start... Kit fuselage: Top Hasegawa, middle new Revell, bottom Tamiya: Kit with Hasegawa Vb/Revell Hasegawa IIa fuselage (note difference in length from firewall (almost line-up perfectly - to front of cowl - don't ask which is right just yet): Hasegawa Vb/Revell Hasegawa IIa and Tamiya fuselage: Tamiya and Revell IIa fuselage: Comparison has already been made between the Tamiya kit and the new Revell one in Jen's excellent post on LSP, along with Derek Bradshaw's ongoing appraisal - nothing further to add. Interesting to note that the nose is quite a lot longer than the Hasegawa Vb - more investigation needed - but otherwise it matches quite closely in profile - if not cross section. Right oh - now to start... One of the first things I spotted were the fuselage sides - around the cockpit - appear to bulge out a little when viewed from above (or finger run along the sides) - and will need sanding back. Area is marked in red on photos - but actually are that needs modding extends further towards the firewall too. Likewise there is additional material on the wing roots that could do with removing - again as marked below. Not sure if I'll need to pack the area behind to prevent sanding all the way through - we'll see: And this is the relevant area inside the fuselage - not spotted before - but not conducive to getting the outer shapes right: Port side wing root in progress... Using the power tool and round grinding bit to remove most of the excess plastic: Before wading in with 280/400/600/1200 grit wet and dry wrapped around a pen: Looking better - still a little more to go methinks - but looks like there's enough 'meat' there to avoid any backfilling (modified left - kit right): Total time so far - about 20 mins. Back soon... Iain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Starboard wing root reshaped to match port - check... Get rid of most of the cockpit 'bulge' with sharp scalpel: Shape and blend with coarse sanding stick: Sand/polish with 240/400/600/1200 grit wet and dry: And shaping done (not that you can see much!!): Filling all those rivets! A fine chisel brush has been used to apply Tamiya Matt Black paint to the rivets I want to hide - especially on the rear fuselage where they should be raised. Black - so that they show up where I've been - and Tamiya - because it's tougher than many other acrylics - yet still easy to sand - unlike filler! No panel joints have been filled. Raised rivets and overlapping panels will be done after the fuselage has been assembled and cleaned up. So - paint drying (don't get too excited! ): And port half after paint has gone off (it's very warm this evening ) - surface wet sanded with 1200 grit wet and dry - wet. Simples! Fuselage: a polish highlighted that I need to sand the starboard side cockpit area a little more - and those CAD generated transitions that have resulted in a bit of a bulge along the rear fuselage - centred on areas highlighted red. Simple job later today to smooth out with sanding sticks/wet and dry. Green areas are where the kit 'formation' lights appear - have fitted kit clear parts and filled with Squadron Green Stuff - ready for sanding later. Can't see any photos that support these being on a wartime Mk IIa? I've also highlighted the areas in front of the canopy that could do with rounding off: Whilst I work on the 'pit - a start has been made on assembling 'halves' from around the rest of the airframe - ready for a sanding session later. The rivets on the tailplanes will be filled with paint and the elevators/rudder sanded back a little to improve the look. I'll be using one of the kit markings options - so assuming I need to make the ailerons appear 'fabric' covered - no big shakes. Hopefully all making sense? Busy cleaning up cockpit components - has taken longer than expected - partly numbers, partly small parts sizes and partly moulding irregularities that needed cleaning up with fresh scalpel blade. Personally - I think the moulded detail is pretty good: Now - Revell - how could you? I've read that the cockpit in this kit was somewhat simplified - but really... (Please note - tongue firmly planted in cheek there!! ) I think I'll be doing a new seat back padding and adding straps. Also in the photo is the armoured plate that goes behind the seat - this one from the Hasegawa kit. Cockpit coming together - need a break - then paint. Only mod so far in this image is to sand back the seat back to remove the moulded shape - and re-scribe vertical lines for upholstered leather before paint. Here you can see the Hasegawa armoured plate trimmed to size and fitted: EDIT - seat armour is wrongly fitted in photo - now re-done! And tanks fitted. The pipework on the starboard cockpit side has been removed as per Edgar's reference "the oxygen hose, which should not be moulded on the starboard cockpit wall. On the Mk. I & II, the hose was "attached" to the pilot, and plugged into a socket on the starboard wall." Now - to fire up the airbrush... Interior paint - just about to mask off behind the seat bulkhead/frame to spray it aluminium silver - I almost forgot! Then detail paint, instruments, washes, wear. Those ejector pin marks won't be seen - so ignoring. Although it's a restored Mk Vb - this page is quite a useful reference. EDIT - seat armour is wrongly fitted in photo - now re-done. Here's the interior with aluminium painted areas done - now I can get on with detail stuff (more fun that carving and sanding ) And starting through the fixes for the wings: Hatched area at front will be reshaped by bending/formers added inside. Radiator area - this will be altered simply with plastic sheet to give the correct internal shape - should be straightforward. Deeper rad easy - you get duplicate parts in the kit so will mount one above the other and adjust for height Raised patches - marked in red circles - I think (as with those on the upper surface) these are reinforcement plates seen on later restorations - need to check a few images - but will probably be removed. And the upper surface 'plates' - these will be removed with a scalpel. Whilst we're at it I'll probably alter the gear bay bulge a little... Inner fuselage components have all been glossed ready for detail painting/weathering/instrument decals. Tail planes treated to a rivet reduction programme - note how those on underside are a lot more prominent: Wing 'plates' removed - here's the port side after quick filing back. What it does highlight is that Revell have attempted to give the overlapping skin impression with a very slight step being present - to preserve this the 'plates' need sanding back on two levels: And starboard - after re-scribing and further reducing rear half of 'plate' with a sharp scalpel: On the underside I've cut away the moulded strengthening webs from the area that I'll be making the recessed Radiator section - and at the front where I'll be re-shaping the wing underside (hopefully!): Project 'lookalike' begins - improving the shape of the radiator recess (please chip in if I've made the wrong assumption that area would be similar to Mk IX). The radiator bath area on the Tamiya kits: Corresponding area on Revell's Mk IIA: Fresh scalpel blade along both sides: Centre section removed: Area around 'bends' thinned on reverse with a curved blade: And front and rear sections carefully bent to shape - to be ultimately boxed in with styrene sheet: Better? In other news - the decals for 65 Sqn P7665 - only include the 'East India Squadron' titles for one side - they should be on both. Seat armour removed and seat mechanism re-fitted: Kit instruments used - removed from full panel decal using a punch and die set. If the recesses for the main instruments weren't so deep - and differences between panel instrument sizes as moulded - and the decals - I may have used the full panel decals as is - with lots of Micr-Sol. Panel as is at present - glossy surfaces make it look rough - but with a little neatening, more details and a matt varnish she'll start to come to life: Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Seat back marked out and 'upholstery' scribed - followed by work with file and sandpaper. More like the original now: And assembled: Started looking at the wheels and, as reported elsewhere, the hubs are a poor shape - bulging out rather than being 'dished' in. Quick thought have me looking at mating Hasegawa outer hub/tyre with Revell's rears - but found the Revell tyre smaller in diameter. Will probably go Hasegawa - but will need to make up rear hubs to mount to legs... Angled 'wheel liners' fitted - no drama. Radiator duct sides boxed in with 10 thou sheet and neatened up. Now drying... Further to oil cooler photos/thoughts earlier I've started to mod the kit item. Nose, round, intake removed - and kit cooler cut horizontally before removing material to reduce height and re-shape front. Still a work in progress: Tail wheel leg assembled - and I can confirm it can be slid in place *after* the fuselage is together. And - yes - am aware of Barracuda's ace new parts - but want to see what I can improve from the kit. Seat painted up and loosely placed - straps next: Panel 'glazed' with clear varnish. Some details to add and I can assemble up: And a couple more - only things added that weren't in the box are a compass decal (MDC), seat armour (Eduard) and the rudder pedal straps: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Fuselage length: figures I've obtained/given to me - not corroborated - so treat with caution! Rudder post to front of cowl: 71.5 inches (cowling length) + 245.64 inches (rudder post to cowling panel joint) = 317.14 Total = 8055.365mm 1:32 = 251.73mm Revell kit then comes in at a fraction of a mm loo long overall. Hasegawa weighs in at 149.5... *If* correct it means that the overall length close enough - but firewall panel joint, cockpit and wing just under 1mm to rear of where they should be. Again - *if* that's the case I think I'll leave everything as is - close enough for me (you can inadvertently remove 1mm from a model just in the sanding process!!) - and means I'll leave the rear fuselage plug out. Hopefully some of this is making sense! Fun this modelling lark! Getting back to construction - fuselage now closed up and drying... Photos from just before show the neat (but possibly 'over engineered' cockpit tub in situ: And a guest appearance by 'Ginger' - an MDC figure that, in the resin, is a work of art - and will be done to go alongside this build and distract your eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Fuselage together and work started on rounding off the area in front of the windshield a little using foam sanding sticks: Starboard wing root trimmed to clear radiator duct. Note how front base of cockpit tub protrudes down - almost needs a bulge in the wing underside to accommodate! Radiator panels (made by doubling up with the spares in the kit) fitted, area above carb air intake area opened up to ease re-shaping, and oil cooler area cut out to accommodate the oil cooler up into the wing when that's done: Radiator cover and modded oil cooler in position: And some weird hieroglyphics have magically appeared... A/B/C/D areas where internal webbing that abuts the upper surfaces. These have been cut away so I can reshape the lower wing center section by bonding in an 80 thou styrene 'splint' to flatten everything out. Area E is where I've been scraping away on the inside surface to make it easier to bend the leading edge section up - just a fraction. Area F is where I've previously removed area of root 'web' to allow construction of the radiator duct. Note that there are still some 'touch' points remaining on the wing root webs to help ensure the root thickness’s remain constant when the upper wing surfaces are fitted. As hinted at earlier - the front of the cockpit floor is in the way if we want to remove that underside bulge. Front lower sanded back until I could see the hint of paint: And now better in profile: With lower wing in position you can see there's now some room to play! And 'squashed up' - a little - will be pretty well touching the cockpit floor when we're done - but you'll get the idea: Work started on the 'splint' using two pieces 2.12mm thick styrene sheet - one mounted on top of the other - with a cut-out to fit around the cockpit tub: Loosley in position on wing underside section to check fit - can confirm there's now enough 'flex' in the wing underside to allow the 'splint' to flatten everything out: And test fitted in fuselage: 'Splint' has now been bonded together and is sat clamped in a vice whilst it dries. Will then be bonded to wing underside and clamped tightly whilst it dries - hopefully with everything nice and flat We'll worry about any dihedral changes when the resulting wing is fitted to the fuselage - initial tests indicate there may be a small change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Part #The Next - "Acts of Random Violence" As title - needed to put a little more of a bend/curve/depth into the leading edge (not much) - so wing clamped in vice and bent back - applying pressure as close as possible to the area using a steel rule and thumb pressure. Applied in two places and shape now better - you can't beat a bit of force now and then! Splint - now bonded together - refined and front edge curved to match where we want the shape of the rsulting lower-wing skin to be: Fits beautifully - and checked with Tamiya wing - would fit that too as it is (apart from two protrusions - but you get my drift ) Slowly, slowly, catch a... Splint bonded in at front edge only for now. This is to stop a tendency of the wing to pull apart at the front when shape compressed (in earlier images you can see where plastic 'bar' at front has cracked apart). Quick test fit to fuselage confirms everything fits snugly and aligns properly. Upper wing modded slightly (rear stubs shortened) and dry fitted in place - all good! Splint/wing leading edge clamped in vice to dry fully at the leading edge before we try and 'squash' the wing: Remember folks - don't try this on a real aeroplane - it *will* break! I guess some photos would be in order - tailplane and control surfaces dry fitted just to see what it looks like... Front view showing the void that's about to be squashed into oblivion - also shows that the wings are out in front elevation too - should be flat across middle. After the surgery the undercarriage bays needed quite a reduction in depth for the upper wing surfaces to fit. G-Clamped between two pieces of oak for nearly 2 hours: Whaddya recon - look like a Spit? Result of a crash diet - and G-Clamp Looks more like the Tamiya wing underside now: That's where I've got to so far - will post further updates as and when I get any further - but I *think* we may be getting somewhere. I'm actually quite liking this kit (subject to a few mods) - Light years better than the Hobbyboss Vb - and a good step ahead of the old - but good - Hasegawa kit IMHO. Iain 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Ho Hum Just the usual tour de force from Iain then ! Super stuff Iain and will be pinching and copying from this when it comes to my one though I'd be happy with half as good a finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Absolutely nothing special John - just another kit that has generated much discussion and, like any other kit, is only some assorted plastic shapes that can be played with. Just to add - the above are my observations/'fixes' - in no way definitive and no warranty given or implied. But I think it's an improvement over what comes with the kit. Still think the kit is an absolute bargain - and great fun - whether you want to assemble from the box, or have a play... Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Completely agree with you on the value for money aspect of this kit Iain and at this price you can play about with breaking sweat on hurting your pocket should you mess up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Not a lot of time on the project today - but a little progress now that everything has dried. Airframe joints given a going over with sanding sticks. Broke out the Milliput to deal with some of the(fairly minor) joint imperfections - and added the flaps - in the 'UP' position - I'd hate to be buying a round for the mess this evening! Wheels - mentioned before that I think the kit ones are very poor. I'm trying to do as much of this model with what comes in the box - but remembered I had a spare set of 5 spokes from a Tamiya IX - they'll do the job! Kit legs cleaned up and assembled - they fall into the OK level of quality - but as others have mentioned elsewhere - a very sloppy fit to the airframe. Tamiya wheels fit the diameter of the Revell axles almost perfectly. A start made on getting the radiator cowl ready - mainly finessing edges at this stage. Oil cooler - heavily modified from kit - is right depth now but needs extending in length a little - so cut and shut with some plastic sheet later. Have fun! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Just had a quick test fitting of canopy - not good Rear section needs lengthening (possible new plastic sheet frames front and rear) - then a section of fuselage needs building up to meet. Quite thick mouldings (which may help later - we'll see...) - but canopy only really works in the closed position. Sliding part barely fits over rear if slid back. Sliding section - shape. Bottom edges should be straight/parallel - they're curved (presumably as part of that famous Spitfire 'bloated' fuselage). Not sure about windshield - will investigate further - but separate armoured glass far too wide at base - so angles all wrong when viewed from the front. Armoured glass may just be a case of removing material from the sides. Mutter, mutter - should have known this was going too easily so far. Still - <bites lip> - onwards and upwards... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Right - back to the build - and I'm starting to struggle to stay motivated... Kit canopy parts placed in situ (rear section slightly askew - got knocked - no issues with fit): Not sides of sliding canopy curved - should be straight: And armoured glass section too wide at the base/wrong angles: And without sliding panel - rear section moulded just long enough to reach back of sliding portion - on real airframe they ooverlap: All a little bloated: Those curved sides have to go: Back in a mo... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 First stage was to add length to the rear section - the clear section is pretty well there length-wise and we can add additional length by adding 'frames' front and rear from plastic sheet carefully glued in place. Length is now too long - but I've deliberately gone over length so I can trim back the frames to fine adjust length after I've sorted our the entry door area. Sanding sticks have been used on the outer sides of the sliding canopy - sides now straight - just needs polishing up: Armoured glass pane has been thinned as far as I can without having to re-do the frame - not quite there - but better than the kit. Knock on of this is the front windshield needs reshaping as it's front 'flat' is now too wide. Sanding sticks again - to be followed by Micromesh and a good polish: The canopy area is quite disappointing IMHO - there's definitely room for someone like AlleyCat to make better replacements. However - I really want to get this one off the decks - in a finished state - and if I don't crack on, with some compromises, it'll get put to one side and forgotten about. Off to do some polishing - and sort the cockpit door area. Have fun! Iain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcap Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This is brilliant! Look foward to your progress and thanks for all the great pics and tips. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy wood Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 keep at it Iain. Behind you all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Thanks both - really appreciated! In breaking news, cockpit almost there... This is what we had from last session: Cockpit door opening 'opened up' width-wise using a new scalpel blade - and doing front edge first so juxtaposition with windshield correct. Rear edge measured - then cut - handily aligned with moulded row of rivets. Next the open (square) areas at top of rear edge/rear glazing area filled with plastic sheet and trimmed back. Rear glazing - with additional frame depth added earlier - sanded back to correct length (incidentally matching the Tamiya equivalent almost perfectly!) Rear glazing glued in place (after painting frame interior) with Plastic Weld and sanded back using sanding sticks followed by Micromesh. Looks OK now I think? And - if we assume the Tamiya kits will be pretty well spot on (should only be a small 'if) - then the kit as modded now matches Tamiya's Mk IX pretty well exactly - at firewall as well as cockpit: I'm happier now... More later - perhaps. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy wood Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Yes with you all the way. With a can of lager in my hand. Peering over your shoulder. Supping away and occasionally saying "you're doing it wrong" Edited August 23, 2014 by andy wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ditto wot Andy said but mines a vodka and lemonade with ice Next instalment please Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 At the moment mine's a double cellulose thinners - would *much* rather have a G and T!! Next stop - overlapped skin panels on rear fuselage - and a little experimentation. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 OK - more assembly done - hoping to get airframe in primer tomorrow...Mean-time - doing research on the 65 (East India) Sqn airframe - P7665. From the Shacklady book - delivered to 6MU 16th November 1940. Issued to 65 Sqn 12th Jan 1941. Failed to return 5th February 1941 after dogfight with a 109. They didn't last long! This means fabric ailerons - so work started on those. Photo in the same book of It also has a Rotol prop, rather than the kit's de Havilland unit. You can either get one of the new Eagle Editions resin props, or do what I'm going to do if you have one in the stash - and 'liberate' one from a PCM Hurricane kit. Diameter a little small - but I think it can be made to fit Oh - and ignore my comment pages back re the East India Squadron decal - you do only need one as it's starboard side only! See - that'll teach you lot not to believe anything I type... Have fun! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Nice work Iain but most unfortunate that has to be done on a brand new kit. Are we in danger of seeing you finish this one soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Are we in danger of seeing you finish this one soon? We'll see... I've been looking at nose - and as well as possible length issues (see Derek's thread) we've also had concerns about the size of the nose at the rear of the spinner backplate. *All* of the other Spitfire props I have are around 1mm smaller in diameter than the Revell one - doesn't sound much - but offer them up to the Revell nose and they just look wrong. Further comparison with Tamiya's Mk IX and numerous photos/drawings has convinced me that, whilst overall cowl width is close enough, there isn't enough inward curvature on the panels towards the nose. This caused a lot of head scratching this am that has resulted in a cunning plan... So cunning you could pin a Rotol prop to it and call it a Spit! <I think> I'm going to cut away the entire front face where it abuts the spinner back plate - then cut along panel lines to make small 'darts' - and bend inwards at the front to try and mirror as closely as I can the curves on the Mk IX panels. Yes - aware the Mk IX has different nose - but I believe early IXs had cowl panels lashed up from Mk V panels - extended at the rear - so my educated guess is that the shapes at the front would be the same/very similar to the earlier airframes. Once done I'll add a replacement front face from a disc of sheet styrene. Hindsight being an exact science I think I'd cut away the front cowl entirely and remodel before I joined the fuselage halves... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 That's better! Iain (muttering quietly to himself whilst nursing cut finger...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 PCM Rotol spinner on Revell nose:Just for reference - Hasegawa nose - with prototype's two-blader spinner:And Tamiya top cowl - note that it curves in more at the front:Front face removed - along with lower cowl:Top and sides manipulated/bent - lower edges of side cowls sanded back - about 0.5mm removed at front (nothing at rear). Lower cowl section bent a little in cross section - then sanded flat along mating surfaces (mostly at front) until new spinner fitted purfectly and everything pretty well 'in the round':New front section cut from two discs of 20 thou styrene sheet using a compass cutter and bonded in place:I may have had enough of it for today - but another step forwards...Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Excellent fix there Iain! Proper modelling I calls it, proper....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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