UK flying Mossie candidates

[alpine_modeller]

I see in addition to KA114 in the U.S., the Canadians have now got VR796 flying.

Are there any near-candidates in the UK ? RL249 ("The Peoples Mosquito") sounds like a long-term project.

[bentwaters81tfw]

In a word - no.

Kermit Weeks took the last potential flyer years ago. I understand Stephen Grey discussed the IWM exhibit in London as a potential flyer but that came to naught. There was talk of BBMF getting a flyer, but there aren't many airframes left, thanks to '633 and Mosquito Squadron' burning some good airframes.

The problems lie with the age of the glues as much as the wooden structure.

Even the new build airframes cannot get CAA approval, as there were some modifications to the wing, and the use of modern epoxy adhesives, which have not been sanctioned by them.

[alpine_modeller]

Wow, if that last paragraph is true, we may never see a flyer in the UK again.

You are basically saying that even KA114 wouldnt be allowed to fly in the UK because the airframe id new-build...

[bentwaters81tfw]

It would have to fly under a foreign registration. As it's now on the FAA register, it can fly here under dispensation, but it could not appear on the CAA register as things stand.

It's a bit like the Shack and the Lightning. One is out of airframe hours and the other has a poor safety record.

Neither have the support of the manufacturers, so, like Concorde, they can't fly.

Sadly, we don't have an 'Experimental' category like USA or France. We also don't have as much free airspace.

[John.R]

Even the new build airframes cannot get CAA approval, as there were some modifications to the wing, and the use of modern epoxy adhesives, which have not been sanctioned by them.

It would have to fly under a foreign registration. As it's now on the FAA register, it can fly here under dispensation, but it could not appear on the CAA register as things stand.

I'm sorry to ask but are you 100% sure about these two quotes?

[bentwaters81tfw]

According to the report FlyPast published after talking to the builders in NZ

[alpine_modeller]

This doesnt surprise me. I always get the impression that the CAA would like to clear UK skies of vintage aircraft.

Nevertheless, this is pretty disastrous news. I wonder if the people driving the resotration of RL249 know about this ? Even if the wing structure were exaclty replicated, the epoxy issue seems to be a show-stopper.

[John.R]

This doesnt surprise me. I always get the impression that the CAA would like to clear UK skies of vintage aircraft.

Nevertheless, this is pretty disastrous news. I wonder if the people driving the resotration of RL249 know about this ? Even if the wing structure were exaclty replicated, the epoxy issue seems to be a show-stopper.

I know I'm not speaking for the team when I type this, But they are well aware of this & has been discussed at length.

[Dave Fleming]

One of the best option for a flyer in the UK was probably the RAF Museum's TW117 that went to Norway in a deal that saw the Museum get the Nash Collection and a private buyer get some ex-Norwegian F5

[bentwaters81tfw]

I would love to see one back in the air and on the UK register. It is going to take a lot of work, rather like the DH 88.

The wing had to be completely rebuilt, and that was a different structure, with glue and nails.

In wartime 1/4 of all Mosquitos delivered to the RAF were rebuilds from damaged airframes. Sections of damaged wing were sawn off chordwise and butt jointed/glued together.

No way will the CAA allow that sort of repair now.

The NZ mods to the wing involved the leading edge. They devised a solid edge as the originals used to damage easily. There may be other mods, but don't forget they built new moulds from scratch, then the airframe is a complete new build.

Modern epoxies are excellent compared with the wartime ones, which failed in tropical conditions. They may be perfectly safe, but until the CAA are happy with all the frills, it's a no go.

[Meatbox8]

Came across an item in this month's Aerolane regarding the 'People's Mosquito'.  Fantastic news as it seems they have secured the financial backing of Airbus!!  Airbus are very keen to do this as it has a direct relationship with the type (?).  Anyway, this sounds like a real shot in the arm for the project.  The aircraft in question is NF.36 RL249 although it is to be re-built as an FB.VI (a bit of a shame in my veiw).  The work has been contracted out to Retrotec in sussex, who have an excellent reputation for aircraft restoration.  That bit surprised me as I always assumed it would be AVSPECS in New Zealand who would be doing the work.  Anyway, all very exciting.

[franky boy]

44 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said:

Came across an item in this month's Aerolane regarding the 'People's Mosquito'.  Fantastic news as it seems they have secured the financial backing of Airbus!!  Airbus are very keen to do this as it has a direct relationship with the type (?).  Anyway, this sounds like a real shot in the arm for the project.  The aircraft in question is NF.36 RL249 although it is to be re-built as an FB.VI (a bit of a shame in my veiw).  The work has been contracted out to Retrotec in sussex, who have an excellent reputation for aircraft restoration.  That bit surprised me as I always assumed it would be AVSPECS in New Zealand who would be doing the work.  Anyway, all very exciting.

I’ve read about this project although didn’t realise they had the backing of Airbus! That surely has to be good. I agree with you that it’s a shame to back date this airframe although the fb.vi is a better looking aircraft. But hey if it puts a Mossie back in the uk skys......

 

James

[The Tomohawk Kid]

On 16/08/2014 at 07:53, bentwaters81tfw said:

but there aren't many airframes left, thanks to '633 and Mosquito Squadron' burning some good airframes.
 

It does not add to the thrust of the discussion, but '633 Squadron' only burnt fibreglass and crude timber replicas and 'Mosquito Squadron' recycled footage from the aforementioned and 'Operation Crossbow'.

 

Just sayin', like.

 

Tommo.

Edited April 8, 2020 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Agent K]

59 minutes ago, Meatbox8 said:

Came across an item in this month's Aerolane regarding the 'People's Mosquito'.  Fantastic news as it seems they have secured the financial backing of Airbus!!  Airbus are very keen to do this as it has a direct relationship with the type (?).  Anyway, this sounds like a real shot in the arm for the project.  The aircraft in question is NF.36 RL249 although it is to be re-built as an FB.VI (a bit of a shame in my veiw).  The work has been contracted out to Retrotec in sussex, who have an excellent reputation for aircraft restoration.  That bit surprised me as I always assumed it would be AVSPECS in New Zealand who would be doing the work.  Anyway, all very exciting.

Guy Black does have a superb record and experience in aircraft build and restoration, you only need to have seen the recent DH9 fly and the Nimrods, Demon, Fury amongst others.

[Truro Model Builder]

Wonderful news about Airbus offering financial support. TPM has made huge strides since announcing the project, and overcame a lot of negative comment when they started out.

 

In addition an organisation called the Mosquito Pathfinder Trust is raising funds to have an Australian-built FB.40 rebuilt by AVSPECS in collaboration with the Aircraft Restoration Company. Who knows? Perhaps we may, in the not too distant future, have two Mossies gracing UK skies.

 

Be still, my beating heart.

 

 

(Just had to put it in).

[StephenMG]

9 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

It does not add to the thrust of the discussion, but '633 Squadron' only burnt fibreglass and crude timber replicas and 'Mosquito Squadron' recycled footage from the aforementioned and 'Operation Crossbow'.

 

Just sayin', like.

 

Tommo.

Sadly there were actually 3 Mosquitos destroyed in the filming - HJ662, TA642 and TA724 scrapped in crash scenes. I believe another aircraft has the front of its nose sawn off for the cockpit interior shots.

[Truro Model Builder]

633 Squadron used nine TT.35s and two T.3s, all from No.3 Civilian Anti-Aircraft Co-operation Unit:

 

RS709 -flyer, now preserved at NMUSAF, Ohio

RS712 -flyer, now preserved at Oshkosh

RS715 -sectioned airframe for crash scenes, used in rebuild of NF.II HY711 at Elvington

RS718 -taxiable and used in wheels up landing shots. Burned out as a result

TA639 -flyer, preserved at RAFM Cosford

TA642 -static, used in crash scene at end of film and burned out as a result

TA719 -flyer, now preserved at IWM Duxford

TA724 -taxiable, used in scene when airfield shot up and crashes into fuel bowser. Burned out as a result

TJ118 -sectioned, with nose used for cockpit scenes, and now at London Colney

TV959 (T.3) -static use only, and now flying in the US

TW117 (T.3) -reserve flyer, now preserved at Bodo, Norway

 

Information taken from Flying Film Stars: The Directory of Aircraft in British World War Two Films by Mark Ashley (Red Kite 2014)

 

[The Tomohawk Kid]

12 hours ago, StephenMG said:

Sadly there were actually 3 Mosquitos destroyed in the filming - HJ662, TA642 and TA724 scrapped in crash scenes. I believe another aircraft has the front of its nose sawn off for the cockpit interior shots.

 

I believe significant parts including fuselages were of were recovered when MGM Studios Borehamwood studios back lot was disposed of in the mid-seventies.

 

Tommo.

[Max Headroom]

At the beginning of the thread someone mentioned BOBF were hoping to get a flyer. I read that RR299 had been due to be donated at the end of that year’s flying season.

 

Trevor

[fightersweep]

8 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

At the beginning of the thread someone mentioned BOBF were hoping to get a flyer. I read that RR299 had been due to be donated at the end of that year’s flying season.

 

Trevor

That's what I had heard too. What an addition to the flight a Mosquito would have been!

 

Steve

[Meatbox8]

26 minutes ago, fightersweep said:

That's what I had heard too. What an addition to the flight a Mosquito would have been!

 

Steve

According to Veteran and Vintage Aircraft, published in 1974, Mosquito B/TT35 TA639 a survivor from the 633 Squadron/Mosquito Squadron carnage, was reported to be heading to the BBMF.  Clearly it never made it as it now lives with the RAF Museum, Cosford, dressed up to look like a B.XX flown by Gibson (replete with incorrect engines for the mark and a bogus colour scheme - shame on them). 

 

The fate of many of the aircraft used in 633/Mosquito Squadron has always erked me.  Thankfully the producers of the Battle of Britain movie had a far less lassez faire approach to the aircraft it used. 

 

Slightly off-topic but rather tantalisingly the above mentioned book has one Hornet listed, actually a Sea Hornet F.20 TT213 which was supposedly at Woomers, Australia and it was hoped it was to be recovered for the Salisbury Hall Mosquito Museum.  No idea what happened to it.  The book actually asks for any info.  Probably a bit late to respond now!

Edited April 17, 2020 by Meatbox8
Forgot to add the registration

[Max Headroom]

@Meatbox8 a few years ago, FlyPast mentioned that the mortal remains of a Sea Hornet found in Canada were on their way to Pioneer Aero for attention. Not heard anything since.

 

There is also a Canadian Mosquito ‘somewhere in China’. Obviously one of the Nationalist examples, it is understood to be a few bits (the metal ones?) attached to a reproduction body. Apparently, it’s not very good.

 

Trevor

 

update

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/aircraft-restoration/de-havilland-sea-hornet-airworthy-restoration-project.html

[Meatbox8]

40 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

@Meatbox8 a few years ago, FlyPast mentioned that the mortal remains of a Sea Hornet found in Canada were on their way to Pioneer Aero for attention. Not heard anything since.

 

There is also a Canadian Mosquito ‘somewhere in China’. Obviously one of the Nationalist examples, it is understood to be a few bits (the metal ones?) attached to a reproduction body. Apparently, it’s not very good.

 

Trevor

 

update

 

http://warbirdsnews.com/aircraft-restoration/de-havilland-sea-hornet-airworthy-restoration-project.html

Yes, read somewhere this afternoon on the web that there is a Chinese one but it is built around a centre section or spar, the rest being plastic reproduction.  Not sure it really counts.  I'm certainly not going to be visiting it any time soon, anyway! I'm glad to say that all the Mosquitos listed in the 1974 book are still extant with the tragic exception of RB299, and that the World's population has actually grown since then to the tune of two airframes.  The Sea Hornet restoration is very exciting news although, judging by what was salvaged, it will be a heck of a job to restore it.  There didn't seem to be any woodwork left, just metal wing structure, and that was pretty mashed up.  Hitherto, as far as I am aware, the only other Hornet/Sea Hornet in existance is the rear fuselage section held by the De Havilland Museum.  I'd love to know what that Australian one was all about back in 1974.

[NoSG0]

Sorry if this was mentioned already, but the # of new build Mossies is 3?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m81wEm1q824

 

Lovely job.

Edited April 17, 2020 by NoSG0

[Truro Model Builder]

4 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

At the beginning of the thread someone mentioned BOBF were hoping to get a flyer. I read that RR299 had been due to be donated at the end of that year’s flying season.

 

Trevor

Yes, that is true. RR299 was indeed going to BBMF at the end of the 1996 season, All the negotiations and paperwork had more or less been completed, and BBMF were to take ownership once the season was over. Sadly, it wasn't to be.