All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[Work In Progress]

On 29/11/2017 at 6:48 PM, Smithy said:

 

I can still remember when I first saw the difference between a .303, .50 cal and a 20mm shell - very eye-opening.

 

And then I saw Watanabe's illustration in actual scale of the different types of 30mm German cannon shells. It's quite sobering when you consider just how much damage such sized ammunition could do to an airframe, let alone aircrew.

 

Slightly retro of me, but this part of the thread isn't complete without a link to this page

http://quarryhs.co.uk/RAF guns.htm

 

and this pic from about 40% of the way down

 

From the left: .303 British; .50BMG; 20mm Hispano, and the rest are German - see article for much discussion

[StevSmar]

On 2017-12-30 at 3:07 AM, Work In Progress said:

 

Slightly retro of me, but this part of the thread isn't complete without a link to this page

http://quarryhs.co.uk/RAF guns.htm

 

and this pic from about 40% of the way down

From the left: .303 British; .50BMG; 20mm Hispano, and the rest are German - see article for much discussion

That's an interesting page, thanks for posting the link!

[Max Headroom]

Looking for a picture of a Turkish Spitfire Vc with a pointy tail, I found this.........

 

 

Not seen one in those markings before.

 

Trevor

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Not seen one in those markings before.

 

I did post this exact picture years ago, asking if anyone knew about possible colours,  I even tried emailing the Turkish air museum about the colours,  as this is clearly a post war full repaint. Never got a reply, 

 

I've not found any other information about possible colour from other Turkish aircraft either.    

 

Though the thought occurs, though I have not seen it on a Tigerhead decals sheet, as they would maybe be the best bet being Turkish.  

[Troffa]

Quick Query-

Hurricane Mk1 Serial P3386 was delivered to 43(F) Sqn in May 1940 and is described as the Squadron's "first Rotol Propeller Fitted Aircraft" (In Andy Saunder's Osprey book on The Fighting Cocks) 

 

Is this likely to have been a "Spitfire" Rotol type spinner/ prop  or the specific Hurricane Rotol, that I understand was a later production item?  (And would Quickboost 48447 be of any use in modelling this particular aircraft?) 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Troffa said:

Is this likely to have been a "Spitfire" Rotol type spinner/ prop 

yes.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/

 

3 hours ago, Troffa said:

(And would Quickboost 48447 be of any use in modelling this particular aircraft?) 

for what base kit?

 

This says for the Italeri,  all their 1/48th kits have horrible spinners, and the kit is so riddled with silly small errors I gave up counting them.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234935596-sea-hurricane-148-italeri/&do=findComment&comment=1390213

Also, save your money, both the old and new tool Airfix Mk.I kits come with two entire prop units,  so there are oodles in spares boxes.  

If it is for the italeri, the nose ring is too big, so some sanding and scraping is needed.

EDIT

for this kit?

 

try getting a leftover Airfix spare, and adjusting the nose ring

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Troy Smith

[Troffa]

Thanks Troy, the italeri kit it is im afraid, but im going to plough on with it as my time for the hobby is so short I generally go with whats in the box and live with it.

 

I havent built a hurricane in 1/48 and dont recall if i have an airfix example in the stash ( i have the revell rebox of the hasegawa mk2 and the hobbycraft tankbuster) but i will have a look tonight for any airfix lurking about. Cheers. 

[rob Lyttle]

Two Hurricane airframes are catching my eye from the pages of a book.

First, the original.... K5083 with a big Watt's 2-blade prop and 6 exhaust holes each side.

Second, Hawker's G-AFKX, started as L1606, used for testing Rotol props and engines.

Both have beautiful polished front panels.

But what about the wings. Fabric covered I'm sure, but how much?

No gun- bays, I'm sure.

Has anybody got good info on these early Birds?

Any good builds of either, on here?

I got a great picture of George Bulman flying K5083 on test, wearing a Trilby hat.

[Troy Smith]

54 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

Two Hurricane airframes are catching my eye from the pages of a book.

First, the original.... K5083 with a big Watt's 2-blade prop and 6 exhaust holes each side.

Second, Hawker's G-AFKX, started as L1606, used for testing Rotol props and engines.

Both have beautiful polished front panels.

But what about the wings. Fabric covered I'm sure, but how much?

No gun- bays, I'm sure.

Has anybody got good info on these early Birds?

Any good builds of either, on here?

I got a great picture of George Bulman flying K5083 on test, wearing a Trilby hat.

 

scale?

 

G-AFKX is a standard earlyish Mk.I except for the  new prop, IIRC it had modified nose panelling for better streamlining

 

google "G-AFKX"

 

note this from @Graham Boak

Quote

Note that the nose ring is wider to match the diameter of the Rotol spinner. This also seems to have been large enough to avoid the small bumps at 5/7 o'clock on the standard nose ring.

 

 

see also

https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?74537-Hurricane-G-AFKX-question

 

 

K5083 is the protoype, and varied in appearance during it life.

 

Making an accurate model of this is a MAJOR undertaking.    The best reference are the Arthur Bentley plans, which clearly show all the differences between K5083 and even a very early Mk.I

note this has a scan if the Bentley drawings in post #7, and more from me in post #8

 

one point I missed, the original canopy is deeper as well.  note the differences just to GAFKX above,  tottaly different engine and side panels, different nose (no bumps)  deeper canopy, retractable tailwheel, no rudder horn  and the list goes on, no gun bays at this stage either, this is a very early pic, without the extra canopy bracing

 

As  for kits, in 1/72nd you could use the Airfix fabric wing kit for G-AFKX,  I think there are decals for this.

In 1/48th,  a lot more work,  as there is not a good fabric wing base kit,   thopugh this boxing has G-AFKX decals, but not for the inwgs

https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/ca/kit_ca_4103.shtml

 

HTH

T

 

 

[dogsbody]

While perusing the Interweb, looking for intel on the first 20 Hurricanes delivered to the RCAF, I came upon the Wikipedia entry for the Hurricane. Looking through the provided pictures, I found this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hurricane#/media/File:Hawker_Hurricanes_at_Lille-Seclin_-_Royal_Air_Force_1939-1945_Fighter_Command_C460.jpg

 

I clicked on it and got an enlarged version:

 

 

 

 

 

I noticed the rear view mirror fitted to the upper edge of the windscreen, but inside, not outside. I've never seen this before.

 

Anyone else see it before me?

 

 

Chris

[rob Lyttle]

47 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

I noticed the rear view mirror fitted to the upper edge of the windscreen

Beats me, but that is a seriously early Hurricane, isn't it?

Great picture of the top of a fabric covered wing - no roundels...!?

I know that the Canadians started building them from the outset, are you reading this as a Canadian plane?

I'd better go and have a read through.

[stevehnz]

VY-P or F, possibly also R of 85 sqn pre-war. Nice photo Chris, thanks.

Steve.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

VY-P or F, possibly also R of 85 sqn pre-war.

 

not pre war,  France phoney war, winter 39/40, the jpg name gives it away..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Hawker_Hurricanes_at_Lille-Seclin_-_Royal_Air_Force_1939-1945_Fighter_Command_C460.jpg

 

suggest  VY-B or E,  as there is bar at the bottom of the letter if you look  carefully (enlarge pic if need be)

 

inspection by the King

 

note same roundels.

 

The mirror is a good spot Chris,  also of  note the plane still has an instrument venturi.

again,  proving that there is plenty of Hurricane information still being collated.

1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said:

Great picture of the top of a fabric covered wing - no roundels...!?

 

Odd lighting angle,  look at the shadows,  the outer part of the wing is overexposed,bleaching out the detail. 

 

 

there are example though of early Hurricanes and Spitfire with only one upper wing roundel

there is a colour pic of other 3 Sq planes here

cheers

T

[dogsbody]

2 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Beats me, but that is a seriously early Hurricane, isn't it?

Great picture of the top of a fabric covered wing - no roundels...!?

I know that the Canadians started building them from the outset, are you reading this as a Canadian plane?

I'd better go and have a read through.

I know it wasn't one of the RCAF Hurcs. Something else linked me to the Wikipedia page on the Hurricane. I took a gander through the pics and there I found it. On enlargement, that mirror jumped right out at me.

 

Is that a gas patch circle below the cockpit?

 

 

Chris

Edited January 26, 2018 by dogsbody

[stevehnz]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

not pre war,  France phoney war, winter 39/40, the jpg name gives it away..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Hawker_Hurricanes_at_Lille-Seclin_-_Royal_Air_Force_1939-1945_Fighter_Command_C460.jpg

 

suggest  VY-B or E,  as there is bar at the bottom of the letter if you look  carefully (enlarge pic if need be)

T

Well spotted Troy, I should've seen that too, but I'll blame just finishing nights for blunting my powers of perception.

Steve.

[rob Lyttle]

15 hours ago, stevehnz said:

 

VY-P or F, possibly also R of 85 sqn pre-war. Nice photo Chris, thanks

 

I think I can see the very edge of a bottom bar on that letter.

Which would rule out any of these, but could be a B or E (I think those are the only Options if that's the case)

 

Note to self.... pay more attention, and try to keep up!

Sorry about that... I

Edited January 26, 2018 by rob Lyttle

[fatalbert]

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can get a 1/72 propeller,that is suitable for a Canadian machine without its spinner..Cheers chaps

Neil

Edited January 26, 2018 by fatalbert

[Max Headroom]

2 hours ago, fatalbert said:

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can get a 1/72 propeller,that is suitable for a Canadian machine without its spinner..Cheers chaps

Neil

Weren’t they C-47 derived?

 

Trevor

[Black Knight]

4 hours ago, fatalbert said:

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can get a 1/72 propeller,that is suitable for a Canadian machine without its spinner..Cheers chaps

Neil

Narrow blade prop from a B-17 is the right size and shape

Thats what I used

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, fatalbert said:

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can get a 1/72 propeller,that is suitable for a Canadian machine without its spinner..Cheers chaps

Neil

From the photos linked below, it looks to me that a B-25, TBF, or A-26  prop and hub would work- a C-47 prop would have too small a diameter, I think. You might have to do some reshaping, depending upon the kit you use for the donor prop. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site_graphics/Aviation/Libarary__Archives_Canada/Hawker_Hurricane_Mk._XII_No._127_F_Sqn_Gander_NL_May_1943._MIKAN_No._3

592489.jpg

 

https://clarencesimonsen.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/hurricane-4.jpg?w=625

 

[fatalbert]

Many thanks chaps,I might have a b25 in the stash some where.

[stevehnz]

I've got one filed away from a Revell F4F kit that came with a Hamilton Standard prop, it looks about right to me & importantly, was being asked to absorb much the same power as the HS props on the Canadian Hurricanes. For that reason, I'd be surprised if a C-47 prop wasn't about right too.

Steve.

[Black Knight]

The main C-47, narrow B-17 and B-25  props are all the same prop

http://www.enginehistory.org/Propellers/HamStd/hamstd.shtml

IIRC the B-17 prop is 11 foot 7 inches diameter, the one on the Canadian Hurricanes was 11ft or 11ft 3in

[Troy Smith]

11 hours ago, fatalbert said:

Could anyone point me in the direction of where I can get a 1/72 propeller,that is suitable for a Canadian machine without its spinner..

some good response, but the chapmost likely to know is @airjiml2  who very knowledgeable on Canadian Hurricanes and 1/72 examples thereof.

Hopefully this will alert him.  

I'm not that upon the Canadian Hurricanes unfortunately.

 

[John Masters]

I will be building my first Hurricane in the upcoming Hawker GB.  I will start with the new mould Airfix, May 1940.  Has anyone built this?  If so, are there any pitfalls to avoid?  Is it correct OOB?