All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[Troy Smith]

Re the Science Museum example shown in Troy's post above. As a non operational type, would it have still been in Dark Earth/Dark Green upper camouflage with the C1 type markings, or else Dark Earth/Sea Grey (Medium)? If the latter it would make an interesting combination with the fabric wing.

Trevor

Hi Trevor

I don't know for sure, but as the plane ended up at an OTU [Operational Training Unit] I think they got stand Day Fighter Scheme.

Certainly the Spitfire Mk I's in preservation from these sources are in this scheme, the one that is or was at the IWM in London, and the Mk I in Chicago

see here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/59537-the-definitive-spitfire-mk1-thread/#entry641776

I did a bit of Googling: P9306 is a Mk.1A, with five kills to its credit in the BoB (one in the hands of Sailor Malan himself!) After combat, it served with several training units before being presented to the museum in 1944 (hence the later camouflage.) It was simply put on display as-is, and other than occasional cleaning is completely original (although it appears the RAF removed the squadron codes.) Apparently the engine engine was removed for weight considerations, and Mk.V exhausts substituted.

The Sky spinner and Sky Blue band are of note.

I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling that OTU aircraft were finished in what were the standard fighter colours at the time.

Anyone know more? Separate thread?

Also, in Hurricane at war 2, there is a photo of P2617, now at Hendon [page 86] taken on Whitehall, 1955, numbered 14, and this looks like DFS.

And L1926 at 55 OTU, [pages 52-53] showing what looks like DFS.

HTH

T

[Edgar]

As early as 1940, instructions from the Air Ministry included, "Service aircraft in O.T.U.s,, A.F.D.U., and Fighter Interception Unit will conform to the normal colour scheme for the aircraft role."

[PhantomBigStu]

I'm looking to paint up a hurricane as night reaper, should I go with Matt or gloss black for the underside tail and wing panel?

[Troy Smith]

I'm looking to paint up a hurricane as night reaper, should I go with Matt or gloss black for the underside tail and wing panel?

As in Kuttelwascher JX-E BE581?

I have not seen the painting [see below] , but regarding the black panel in the port wing, this is not a removable panel on a Hurricane, but part of the wing skinning.

I don't see how this could be taken from another plane easily, I mean, it would mean removing a riveted on panel, and then re-riveting it on another plane.

Looking at the drawing in the profile booklet, maybe it was confused with one of the rear gun breech access panels?

This stage the black used was smooth night, [smooth paints while matt would in modern parlance be 'satin' or 'eggshell']

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/51600-nightfighter-night-colour/

and regarding black Hurricanes

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234944822-what-colour-is-night/

worth a read too

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234956061-hasegawa-148-hawker-hurricane-mk-iic-finished/

First word missing [on previous page] is

No

I've not seen a photo of Night Reaper, the profiles are drawn from this

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25494-be581jx-e-1-sqn-raf-night-reaper-flt-lt-karel-kuttelwascher/page-2

Nick Millman, on Jan 6 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

I have some detailed notes and a painting of this aircraft which I will try to dig out for you. The painting of JX-E was made in 1942 by J H Striebel Jr, depicting the aircraft on 4 May 1942 and definitely shows anti-glare shields over the exhausts. The painting was used as a reference for the profile in Francis K Mason's Profile on the Hurricane. The black rudder and wing panel came from a Turbinlite flight Hurricane BD770 and the Hurricane had red doped repair patches on the port aileron, rear fuselage and tail unit. As the painting was drawn from life I guess it is a pretty accurate recreation of the aircraft as it appeared.

The "official" formula for the mixed grey was 7 parts MSG to one part Night (the blue-black colour not the chimney soot) - straight black was the alternative to Night. The recent 'On Target' profile says it was Ocean Grey on this particular aircraft which from the time period, May 1942, seems reasonable but the book confuses about the "new intruder scheme" by illustrating it variously as Ocean Grey, MSG and the mixed grey (with DG over the black) without explanation!

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234941748-kuttelwaschers-hurricane/

erm, perhaps a bit more complex answer than expected, but lots of useful info in the links.

[AndyL]

In answer to the oil ring question - photo taken of a 615 Squadron Hurricane, late October

1940 at Northolt

[Nick Millman]

Sorry to be so late with a correction but in fact the 1942 Streibel painting shows the aircraft painted Night for intruder operations! A photograph of JX-E from one of the groundcrew apparently also shows that although I haven't seen it. This came to light in correspondence with Kuttelwascher's biographer whose original 1984 book cover was based on James Goulding's painting but was later revised to show it accurately (for the time of the incident depicted) on the cover of the 1993 Czech edition of the book, as shown below. Confirmed no yellow leading edge stripes.

Nick

[Black Knight]

I'm building a IIC as LK*A, BE500, Night finish overall. Would the insides of the wheel wells and inside the wheel doors be also Night, or aluminium [wells] interior green [ inside of doors/covers] ?

Tia,

Fred

[Troy Smith]

I'm building a IIC as LK*A, BE500, Night finish overall. Would the insides of the wheel wells and inside the wheel doors be also Night, or aluminium [wells] interior green [ inside of doors/covers] ?

Tia,

Fred

Hi Fred

without evidence of anything else, painted aluminium for all the above.

IIRC there is a shot of BE500 running up on the ground, can't remember where though or if it shows the UC!

[Graham Boak]

Troy's photo shows the undersides very much darker than the upper surfaces, and colour demarcations on the fuselage and tail. That aircraft wasn't overall black when that photo was taken..

[Black Knight]

Thank you Troy. Aluminium it shall be.

The photo I'm using is in the Haynes manual; its in colour and shows BE500 from starboard, slightly above and not-quite 3/4, in flight. Is defina-tute-ly all over Night. Also the spinner is, I think, dark yellow [or maybe orange] Its definately not dark red nor bright yellow as on the A1 fuselage roundel. The spinner looks light orange to me, but as I'm 80% colourblind I'm guessing its more likely to be dark yellow....or a red as its tone is about the same as the letters BE500.

[gingerbob]

I believe the spinner is red, going on memory.

Troy's photo shows the undersides very much darker than the upper surfaces, and colour demarcations on the fuselage and tail. That aircraft wasn't overall black when that photo was taken..

The overall black came first- the "day fighter" topsides were applied in preparation for the squadron's participation at Dieppe.

bob

[Black Knight]

I believe the spinner is red, going on memory.

Silly me, after I typed the last I realised it was most likely red. Thanks for your confirmation.

[Troy Smith]

There was a lengthy bunfight over this a while back

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921871-all-black-87sqn-hurricane-iic-question/

and, Tango India Mike proves at least I was correct that I had seen a pic of BE500 showing that the UC was aluminium

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921871-all-black-87sqn-hurricane-iic-question/page-2#entry1072161

cheers

T

[Black Knight]

Ta again,

[stevej60]

Hi folks,just at the decal stage of my 1/24 hurricane and only the very few stencils to go on in fact all you get is nine w/t squares,one oil/galls/airspace notice

and two treated ethyline glycol notices,but no clue as where to place them in the instructions can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Troy Smith]

Hi folks,just at the decal stage of my 1/24 hurricane and only the very few stencils to go on in fact all you get is nine w/t squares,one oil/galls/airspace notice

and two treated ethyline glycol notices,but no clue as where to place them in the instructions can anyone point me in the right direction?

the instructions certainly used to Steve..

I refound the instruction booklet recently, look on the last 2 pages.

Or, have a look here

http://scaleplasticandrail.com/kaboom/index.php/all-things-aviation/everything-else/aftermarket-decals/895-148-hawker-hurricane-part-1-limited-edition

does this help?

[stevej60]

Many thanks Troy,mines a 2nd or 3rd edition boxing with a colour profile included and even the major decals are not numbered on the sheet or

the profile and nothing on the instructions other than the build sequence thanks for the info.

[Troy Smith]

Hi folks,just at the decal stage of my 1/24 hurricane and only the very few stencils to go on in fact all you get is nine w/t squares,one oil/galls/airspace notice

and two treated ethyline glycol notices,but no clue as where to place them in the instructions can anyone point me in the right direction?

The Etylene glycol go either side of the radiator, the oil'gals goes on the port wing leading edge on the oil tank, and the w/t squares, well, if you look at the link of the decal sheet, and the small numbers, and the scan of the sheet, you should be able to make out the positions?

Many thanks Troy,mines a 2nd or 3rd edition boxing with a colour profile included and even the major decals are not numbered on the sheet or

the profile and nothing on the instructions other than the build sequence thanks for the info.

if all else fails i'll send you a pic of the booklet guide.

[The Crusty one]

what colour were the seats in mk1s?

[Edgar]

Silver.

[Troy Smith]

what colour were the seats in mk1s?

as Edgar says, silver, as in aluminium paint.

without meaning to be rude, did you not read the thread before asking, as on page 3 Edgar posted a photo to show this [from the Finnish mkI BTW] , and I posted shots of 2 other recovered planes showing this as well as the interiors.

[The Crusty one]

no sorry i didnt,was in a bit of a hurry so i just asked! thanks for the info

[stevej60]

The Etylene glycol go either side of the radiator, the oil'gals goes on the port wing leading edge on the oil tank, and the w/t squares, well, if you look at the link of the decal sheet, and the small numbers, and the scan of the sheet, you should be able to make out the positions?

if all else fails i'll send you a pic of the booklet guide.

Thanks Troy, I now know where they go!

[tempestfan]

Can anyone idetify this/these Hurricanes from the pics ?

[Troy Smith]

Can anyone idetify this/these Hurricanes from the pics ?

No, you can't,, as all the fabric has been stripped off the rear fuselage, meaning squadron codes and serial number have gone. Appears to be 2 shots of the same plane.

All that can be said is it's most likely taken in during the Battle of France, it has belly landed, has metal wings and a Hurricane type DH prop, and it was taken after the fin stripes were introduced.

These photo are also on the LEMB thread of captured/crashed Hurricanes. Unfortunately many of these have the same problem, stripped or burnt off fabric, thus removing the aircraft identity