All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[Tomas Enerdal]

I can only chime in regarding the Wingleader books. Unfortunately they have only covered Hurricane Mk.I so far.

[Troy Smith]

7 hours ago, Tom R said:

Is there any book that comes even close to distilling it all and helping the sort of advanced but not really top-line modeller.

No.    

The site search is not very good,  but you adding Britmodeller into a google search term works well.

Or just ask,  given the sprawl of this you may want to start a new thread though.

7 hours ago, Tom R said:

I have about 8-10 Hurricane books but it is quite tedious to trawl through them looking for answers to modeller-type questions as they are not laid out in that form.

The Hurricane problem is most of what you want to know is fine detail,  the only thing close to this is the Wingleader book, which does a good job, the Mk.I in detail is very confusing,  as there are a load of changes, and the changer overs are quite fuzzy  IIRC it misses the mid 1940 Hawker builds with fabric wings as well.

 

7 hours ago, Tom R said:

There are some modeller guide books like the "Airmark" series and some good Brett Green books on the Spitfire and Mustang and also some Kagero books. I am surprised there is not one on the Hurricane.

I'm not, AFAIK most of this detail thrashing out has been done on here.    The advantage is many contributors, the disadvantage is threads like this,  now at page 97.

Another problem, Hurricanes are simple simple simple COMPLEX,  and it's the small details that trip up people.  They are not obvious, and you need to know what to look for and the variations.

We are still turning up fragments and question even now, like the small windows and what were they used for on the last couple of pages.  This was down to @Tigerausfb spotting this and asking about it.

 

7 hours ago, Tom R said:

In the absence of such book I will get the Richard Franks one although I have seen some rather disparaging comments about some of his earlier books.

Do you mean Airframe and Miniature Vol.16?    It won't help. 

While on a casual inspection is looks great,  in large part due to good printing, lots of pics , what looks to be a useful variant break down etc,  where is all goes wrong is he doesn't actually know much about the subject, despite having done the SAM Datafile,   the A&M book doesn't really add much to that,  I only have a PDF of the Datafile, as it's not very useful and I have never found a used copy cheap enough.  

 

One thing, they  have not discovered Britmodeller,  as a much missing has been on here for years.  

 

The problems is it's wrong in some way or other maybe a third of the time,  the variant isometrics look impressive unless you know what is missing,  as well as confusing,  as they show lots of one offs along with main variants.

Examples

No mention on tropical vents.

No through breakdown of Props and spinners,  in particular spinners.

Does not understand that a Merlin XX needs a bigger carb intake, and seems puzzled

Does not understand the Mk. IID and Mk.IV, so no wing drawings, description of added armour, there is a near comedy moment when the armoured windscreen is mentioned with puzzlement.  

No understanding of Canadian production

No detail on interior colours. 

Many incorrectly captioned photos.  etc etc.

 

As they don't understand the subject, the kit reviews are wordy, but pretty worthless.  No real description on faults,  or how to fix them. 

 

The profiles are rehashed from a 2007 book, and vary from OK to utter fantasy, and suitably lacking in actual useful detail so you can know what too look for in photos...

 

As you might have gathered I'm not a fan!   I got mine in a sale, and was not impressed.  My error list is on a now not functioning laptop, and I going through the book usually gets me very cross and/or depressed in about 5 minutes so making a list is an exercise in frustration.

 

If you have not found them on here, these are worth a read and bookmarking, as AFAIK these details are not in books.

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235128469-arma-hobby-148th-hurricane-iic-optional-parts-description-spinners-cannon-barrels-tailwheels-tropical-vents/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235005804-hurricane-p3886-uniqe-fabric-wing/page/2/#elControls_3735801_menu

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235087855-hurricane-mkiv-radiator-guard-another-lost-detail/

 

But there are more.   Hence my interest given as "Hurricane data collation"  .....

 

HTH

 

 

[Tom R]

Thanks for the help both of you. Franks book crossed off list to buy, Wingleader book added.

I suppose if I had more time I could print off every useful britmodeller article and make it into a book!🙃

[wmcgill]

Formation-keeping lamps control, #33 in the March 1940 Hurricane Mk.I Pilot's Notes.

[Troy Smith]

21 minutes ago, wmcgill said:

Formation-keeping lamps control, #33 in the March 1940 Hurricane Mk.I Pilot's Notes.

Fantastic!  Thank for clearing up that  detail.  

Again, @Bigos  @GrzeM @Wojtek Bulhak

 

I'll @Work In Progress as this was part of the debate, and it was there in the notes.   

 

2 hours ago, Tom R said:

I suppose if I had more time I could print off every useful britmodeller article and make it into a book!🙃

You can just bookmark the threads.

 

What maybe simpler is just to start a thread to ask for clarification,  but the main areas of confusion for most Hurricane subjects is in the props and spinners thread, and the one on alternate parts in the Arma kit, as it covers what they are, and where you are likely to see them.  Those 2 cover most poorly documented detail areas.   

Older kits don't give you options anyway.

 

The trickier areas are the Mk.I, especially early on, and the mid 1940 fabric wing, the Wingleader book does a good job overall on that,   the IID/IV,  which are fairly rare, about 300 Mk.IID and 600 Mk. IV out of 15,000, and some Canadian quirks, and Soviet modifications.  After that you have Se Hurricanes,  Tac R and PR, which are poorly documented anyway,  Met Flight use and then one off, nearly all have been discussed here at points.

if you have not already seen it

scanned here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane

 

Only covers NW Europe, but a lot covers other theatres as well, in particular note the drawing on page 19,  which shows the factory marking positions,  a very common glitch I see on Hurricane models is the position of upper wing roundels, which are often just too far outboard, and the dimension for where the edges of the camo pattern should be.

THis on page 2 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-hurricane-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/page/2/#elControls_1682406_menu

 

covers internal colours.  

 

The cockpit remained basically the same,  with just a few added controls, mostly added later for radio, and armament additions. 

 

HTH

[Work In Progress]

7 hours ago, wmcgill said:

Formation-keeping lamps control, #33 in the March 1940 Hurricane Mk.I Pilot's Notes.

Excellent find, that's what I was hoping for

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

For comment.  http://www.airhistory.org.uk/Hurricane/home.html  Version 1, a few disclaimers and mark definitions to come.

[JackG]

So is it just photo quality that the light bulb is not always visible when the oval is present, or was a blank plate fixed in place when the formation-keeping lamps were not required and eventually discontinued from use altogether?

 

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, JackG said:

or was a blank plate fixed in place

Likely just painted over in the pic of AE-Q /Z5054. I can't see the need for a blank plate, even if damaged, could easily be sealed with doped fabric.

Good question though.

 

10 minutes ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

For comment.  http://www.airhistory.org.uk/Hurricane/home.html  Version 1, a few disclaimers and mark definitions to come.

wow, just wow.    Stunning, needs a separate announcement, not burying here!  Thank you.

[PeterR]

8 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

For comment.  http://www.airhistory.org.uk/Hurricane/home.html  Version 1, a few disclaimers and mark definitions to come.

 

That is just sensational - THANK YOU! Been needed for such a long time. Wonderful, great work and well done.

 

As Troy said - too important to bury here.

[Tigerausfb]

22 hours ago, wmcgill said:

Formation-keeping lamps control, #33 in the March 1940 Hurricane Mk.I Pilot's Notes.

 

Superb! Thanks very much, sorted that point out very nicely. Also thanks to everyone elses efforts in throwing some light on something I was in the dark about.

 

Andrew

Edited April 11 by Tigerausfb

[Jagan]

Is that a Hurricane Construction Number painted on the bottom side of the elevator?  

 

Do not recall too many war time photos of Hurricanes showing this on the underside of the elevator... Any more samples?

 

Lastly 41H/138801 ? or 41H/135801 ? So what aircraft is it?  Some known C/Ns here https://www.rafcommands.com/database...&qcntry=&qt=FN with V7497 being 41H-136172

[Paul Lucas]

It has the look of an RAF Vocabulary of Stores Reference Number to me.

 

Section 41H/135801 could be the reference number for a Hurricane starboard elevator. If you look carefully, the tailplane also has a similar number on it something like 41H/150037 just forward of the missing square panel.

 

The letters 'CX' under the number on the elevator denotes the doping scheme 'Cellon X'.

[wmcgill]

On 11/04/2024 at 10:57, wmcgill said:

Formation-keeping lamps control, #33 in the March 1940 Hurricane Mk.I Pilot's Notes.

The Starboard Formation Keeping Floodlamp (10) is shown in the December 1940 Hurricane Mk.II Pilot's Notes (https://ibb.co/zNJcZL0).

 

[Tigerausfb]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:26 AM, Paul Lucas said:

It has the look of an RAF Vocabulary of Stores Reference Number to me.

 

Section 41H/135801 could be the reference number for a Hurricane starboard elevator. If you look carefully, the tailplane also has a similar number on it something like 41H/150037 just forward of the missing square panel.

 

The letters 'CX' under the number on the elevator denotes the doping scheme 'Cellon X'.

Hi, I believe 41H is Hawkers manufacturer ID, used from the 1930s through to Hunter (and beyond?). 41H/197654 is another example on a Hurricane rudder. Assume for ordering spares you'd have your AP1086 or such like with Manufacturer/Aircraft Model (26AF)/ and then sub-sections for fuselage, wing etc etc

 

Andrew