All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[dogsbody]

Intel:

 

https://www.britannica.com/technology/duralumin

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin

 

 

Chris

[rob Lyttle]

22 hours ago, Bigdave22014 said:

 

Thanks Troy, didn't realise the cockpit area wasn't actually metal. 

I fancy doing one of the Hurricanes I got recently in "naked" style showing the different materials,

 

Big Dave, there's a couple of options for airframes that aren't covered in camo paint

 

Also, L1606went back to Hawker as G-AFKX for testing the Rotol prop, kept very shiny, even the spinner!

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by rob Lyttle

[Bigdave22014]

Thanks Rob, they do look nice like that. But that's not what I want to achieve, I want to show all bare, unpainted/doped materials as used in the construction. That's why I want to find out what bits were what variants of aluminium (such as duralumin, etc).

[rob Lyttle]

7 hours ago, Bigdave22014 said:

bare, unpainted/doped materials as used in the construction

One thing I did pick up in my wee hurricane book -

the fuselage stringers running back to the tail are little channels . The linen goes over, and then little strips (of wood?) are screwed in to the channels to hold the fabric and tighten it 

[StevSmar]

Hi BigDave22014,

 

For an idea of how the fabric wings differ from the metal wings, have a look at the Cambridge Bomber and Fighter societies web page and Facebook page. They are the only group restoring a fabric winged Hurricane.

http://www.cbfs.org.uk/

 

On the rear fuselage, only some stringers have wooden strips screwed into the stringers to hold the fabric.

Similarily for the Fin and Rudder, strips sandwich the fabric onto the rib (can't recall ATM if these are metal or wooden strips)

Edited July 18, 2017 by StevSmar

[Troy Smith]

53 minutes ago, StevSmar said:

Hi BigDave22014,

 

For an idea of how the fabric wings differ from the metal wings, have a look at the Cambridge Bomber and Fighter societies web page and Facebook page. They are the only group restoring a fabric winged Hurricane.

http://www.cbfs.org.uk/

 

 

shame they don't seem to have taken on the evidence for all early Hurricanes being mostly aluminium paint internally...

 

 

 

 

 

[Bigdave22014]

Thanks chaps. Interesting link, which led to more sites doing/done restorations.

The above pic showing the bare plywood around the cockpit is extremely useful, thanks Troy.

[StevSmar]

On 2017-07-18 at 8:04 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

shame they don't seem to have taken on the evidence for all early Hurricanes being mostly aluminium paint internally...

I think you're right about this Troy, all the photos I've seen look like silver structures to me.

[tango98]

20 hours ago, StevSmar said:

all the photos I've seen look like silver structures to me.

That's correct Steve, all of the document copies I have here for protective finishes on Hurricane Mks I to IV specify the aluminium finish.

If you're interested, later this year I'm going to start putting up all of my Hurricane documents & photos up on a colleagues website to begin with before moving them over to a separate, dedicated site.

Unfortunately the structural drawings are a different matter (as you well know!).

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[StevSmar]

On 2017-07-26 at 2:23 PM, tango98 said:

.....That's correct Steve, all of the document copies I have here for protective finishes on Hurricane Mks I to IV specify the aluminium finish......

Dave

I wonder if I've ever seen a Hurricane structure that was finished in anything other than silver!

[StevSmar]

Here's a FacePlant post of an attempt of drawing the Hurricane fuselage in 3D:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6940844471/permalink/10155030782574472/

[SeaVenom]

Here's a link to a thread I started about Airfix's instructions but morphed into a discussion about me doing a Battle of France aircraft which some might find useful.

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235023623-can-anyone-post-airfix-148-hurricane-mk1-paintingmarking-instructions/

 

 

[SeaVenom]

I just dug up this old thread about VYC/G and 85 sqn..........

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/

 

but I was wondering if VYG and the other 85 sqn aircraft had metal wings when this photo was taken.....

 

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-85Sqn-VY/images/Hawker-Hurricane-MkI-RAF-85Sqn-VYG-VYH-1940-01.jpg

 

I was going to do an aircaft from 73 sqn because as pointed out some of the P reg aircraft had metal wings/DH propellor and no canopy mirror(which I can use the 1/48 Airfix kit for) but if these aircraft from 85 sqn like VYG had metal wings maybe I can do one of them as it looks to me in the above photo VYG has a DH prop, no canopy mirror and the non pole mastl (which would be handy as the mast in Airfix's box is obviously the later non pole mast.   

 

Go ahead and spoli my fun by telling me VYG has fabric wings in that photo.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SeaVenom

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, SeaVenom said:

Go ahead and spoli my fun by telling me VYG has fabric wings in that photo.

 very  difficult  to tell from that angle.  The landing light looks quite inboard,  which it is on fabric

 

If this is VY-G  and not VY-C. 

 

this is fabric  winged,  clearly visible in the above photo, you can see a change in tone where the fabric starts.

 

Now, given the photo below  is from  the same sequence,   and if you enlarge you can see this is 'G'

 

Note the shadow is the same,  and the starter is connected in the above photo, you can see the cable hanging down

 

now this looks very much like the older photo of 'G' below,  and t looks to have the same wing metal/fabric fade,   but hard to tell at this angle again.

Common features

De Havilland Spitfire prop (wider at base) but with tag aerial and straight windscreen base,  (early Hurricane usually have a curved  base  see here  http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/images/hurricane_mk1_l1592_02_of_26.jpg)  

 

as well as if the below is late 39/early 40, then the above in May 1940 (post fin flash/yellow ring)  then that's several moths of being kept outside and fading,  which is what the May 1940 shows...  and that during the Phoney War losses were low,  it's quite feasible for 'G' below to survive until May...

 

 

 So, If the 3 pics above are the same plane,  then it's  fabric winged.   

 

I've tried to explain the deduction process,   as other Hurricane buffs here like @tango98 and @Graham Boak  can point out any errors.

 

 There maybe more shots from the sequences above that are not widely reproduced,  which could give a more precise answer.  (someday I need to trawl Hendon and the IWM actual photo archives..) 

 

VY-G as above was a marking option in the OLD tool 1/48 Airfix Hurricane,  which does have the DH Spitfire prop, the new  tool kit has  the DH Hurricane prop instead.

 

Somewhere I'm having a recollection of a pic of a wrecked VY-C,  possibly on the Luftwaffe Experten Message Board thread on captured Hurricanes (or German photos of wrecks, captured) and there maybe some information in '12 Days in May"   which I'm not I  can get to easily.

 

Sea Venom, I hope you are taking notes,  as posts like the above  (and the 73 sq analysis) are the results of years of staring at pics and cross referencing data....and I only just noticed the straight windscreen base/tag aerial detail now .. which is why I respond,  as it makes me look harder

 

HTH

T

 

 

 

 

 

[SeaVenom]

Thanks Troy and yes taking notes but it's the dates that are the main cause of confusion as you'll probably agree.   So really it's back to a P from 73 squadron because of the wings.   One thing I find hard to see too is the difference in the position of the landing lights on the fabric and metal wings.   I can't see much difference so my eye obviously isn't as good on that as yours.

[Finn]

Don't know if this has been posted or not but a pair of Hurricanes on submarine patrol:

 

 

Jari

Edited August 3, 2017 by Finn

[stevehnz]

Those would be Canadian Hurricanes without spinners, yes?

Steve.

[Scratchbuilder]

Not sure if this is the right section to post this enquiry, but....although I have a strong dislike of militaria, it seems to me that a decent model of one of the kites my Dad would have worked on would be a nice thing to have.

SO....knowing Bu***r all about Hurricane types, can I ask if the Airfix 48th scale Mk1 can be made into a Mk IV tank buster and if not is there a cheap alternative (by which I don't mean Italeri, Hasegawa, Tamiya, etc, prices)?  I simply can't justify those prices.

 

I need to make a rocket carrying version from 6 Squadron in around 1944/45.

 

I also have no idea what the livery was on those desert kites.

 

Martin

 

[Graham Boak]

No, it isn't an easy job to do a Mk.IV from a Mk.I.  It is much closer to a Mk.II, but with an armoured radiator and other lesser changes.  I could tell you a 1/72 kit but not a 1/48 one: no doubt someone will be along soon who can.

 

By 1944/45 the Hurricanes were no longer in desert colours but in the Day Fighter Scheme of Dark Green and Ocean Grey over Medium Sea Grey.  At least, those seen in photos taken on Prkos(?) airfield in this period.

[Scratchbuilder]

Thanks, Graham, that's what I feared.  Do Revell do a suitable Mk II I can adapt from?  they tend towards a reasonable price.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Scratchbuilder]

 Could the Sea Hurricane kit be better as it has a metal wing?

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Caerbannog]

Revell did a Mk.II - a reboxing of the Hasegawa kit which is basically nice but has some errors (the fabric at the cockpit, wheelwells wich need some filler in hard to reach places and - not sure - a single piece canopy???, plus a few more IIRC).

The Airfix Sea Hurricae is a Hurricane Mk.I with arrestor hook and other small parts - in fact it is the same kit as the MkI but with new decals.

 

René

[Scratchbuilder]

Thanks Rene,

so use the Revell instead?  the artwork on the Airfix box makes the wing look metal, which I thought was the main difference between them.  I must admit I thought it unlikely that they'd do such a different model.

I'll look out for the Revell kit on the cheap then.  Thanks,

Martin

[dogsbody]

There was this one. Not sure of the quality of the kit.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Scratchbuilder]

Thanks Chris, is that Hobby King?

 

Martin