Seahawk Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) I reckon that serial is P3025, P partly obscured by code letter. Air Britain says P3025 served with 17, 56 and 111 sqs before being damaged by a Bf 109 and abandoned, Newchurch, Kent, 7/9/40. The 17 Sq bit fits and the Air Britain date is reconcilable with the caption date of the crash as 3/9/40 (bureaucratic backlog). However nothing else does: details of the Luftwaffe victor, the reported service with 56 and 111 Sq and the statement that the aircraft was abandoned rather than crashlanded. P3025 is a gap in Francis Mason's Hurricane serial list. Edited April 18, 2017 by Seahawk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Troy Smith said: AFAIK, it was all or nothing, the outers may have jammed, or, it could be blocked with debris from the belly landing, a closer look at the D/L pic,(stuck it into paint and enlarged it) I think it's the two middle guns, look like there are still patches on 1 and 4. cheers T But is it normal that the hole patch gets ripped off when the guns are fired or is there normally just a hole in the patch? Cheers, Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 39 minutes ago, Basilisk said: But is it normal that the hole patch gets ripped off when the guns are fired or is there normally just a hole in the patch? Cheers, Peter good question. I don't know, probably depends on what the patch was stuck on with and what it's made of. There have been discussions, and from photos it seems pre war/phoney war that patches were done very neatly, and painted to blend in, the RAF was noted for not doing enough gunnery practice. eg IIRC Edgar said that medical sticking plaster was used, the usually accepted method is scrap fabric doped on. as for being shot away, this is what come too mind. the crashed YB-C, well, assuming that a couple of guns jammed, the other either got blown off, or were then ripped off by the slip stream, or came off in the belly landing. they are normally shown as red, I'd guess because of the use of red oxide dope (see photos of the inside of Hurricane fabric, or Hawker restorations initial coating) but other colours have been used. eg roundel blue Spitfire boneyard. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr though this might signify unloaded guns and sealed up to prevent ingress of dirt (note cannon has blue tip) this shot is much later, but note the 0.303 port is covered with a pale patch, maybe yellow or sky? Just noticed the inside of the gear doors look MSG in this shot as well, compare to outside and the wheel hub. Also of note are the reversed upper colours of 'G' behind cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Thanks Troy for the selection of pictures. I guess there are many possibilities why the patches are gone. It is indeed fascinating all the detail a picture can contains and sometimes is only seen after looking it again and again... Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 19 hours ago, Basilisk said: But is it normal that the hole patch gets ripped off when the guns are fired or is there normally just a hole in the patch? Cheers, Peter The patches over the gun ports were used to keep dirt out of the ports and gun barrels, and to help keep the guns warm and prevent them freezing by stopping cold air whistling down the port and out the ejection chute. They also served as an indication to armourers that the guns had been fired. The patch therefore sealed the gun port, and the first bullet fired would punch through the patch. The photo on the previous page shows the outboard and inboard guns of the group of 4 on the port wing have for some reason not fired, whilst the two in the middle and all 4 on the starboard wing have fired. All 8 should have operated together, so there's been some sort of problem with the 2 guns that didn't fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: ... the first bullet fired would punch through the patch. That is exactly my point Dave. On the picture the whole patch is missing - no holes! But Troy already came up with some possible reasoning why this happened. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Basilisk said: That is exactly my point Dave. On the picture the whole patch is missing - no holes! Ahh, I see what you're getting at now. 3 hours ago, Basilisk said: But Troy already came up with some possible reasoning why this happened Yes' I'd agree with most of what Troy said. Rather depends on how well they were stuck on in the first place (a used patch would generally have to be removed before a new one was fitted). Blown off by the blast from the guns - possible. Ripped off by the slipstream after bullets had punched through - highly likely. Came off in the belly landing - unlikely I think in this case, this looks like a very good controlled belly landing with minimal damage to the airframe, the badly worn paintwork appears to predate it's arrival in the field. Looking at the port outboard gun that has fired, there appears to still be a portion of the patch still attached in the lower outboard corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgeir Eikeland Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Hello This profile is among the decal options in Fly's Sea Hurricane IIC in 1/32. I have yet to see a photo of this scheme. Have you? And besides: shouldn't there be D-day stripes on the wings as well? Torgeir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Torgeir Eikeland said: Hello This profile is among the decal options in Fly's Sea Hurricane IIC in 1/32. I have yet to see a photo of this scheme. Have you? And besides: shouldn't there be D-day stripes on the wings as well? Torgeir Hi Torgier Fly aren't very good on their decal options, their IIC trop has badly researched options (ones without photos, based on old profiles) Basically, the paint guide above is wrong.... The 835 planes on HMS Nairana should have an anti glare panel for starters... underwing stripes, yes, at one point. all based on this note wing is mostly sky, with white wrapped around leading edges. I think I have seen a shot showing the rear fuselage stripes somewhere.... see Swordfish image below see also for more discussion. google image of "sea hurricane 835 squadron hms nairana" turns up images visible, of 7-T crashed, but on a members only forum "Reuniepagina Koninklijke Marine" the wiki page on HMS Nairana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Nairana_(D05) has this, And the Hurricanes got the white paint due to it's use on the Swordfish,which may explain the rear placement of the D-Day stripes, Not many Hurricanes got D-Day stripes.... "Mail being loaded into a Hurricane Mk IIC of No 1697 Air Despatch Letter Service Flight at B2 Bazenville Normandy" HTH T PS this thread has a load of Sea Hurricane IIc pics, apart from the white ones... Edited May 10, 2017 by Troy Smith added link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 23 hours ago, Troy Smith said: The 835 planes on HMS Nairana should have an anti glare panel for starters... IIRC, the remnants of the EDSG/DSG upper surface camouflage acting as an anti-glare panel. Don't paint it black... Claudio 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hi, Hurricane gang, glad I found you. I haven't had time to get through the 27 pages on here, so my query may already have been answered, but....... I'm doing a mk1 in 1/48 by hasegawa, and want to do a decent job on it. But I don't enjoy camo schemes etc, I love natural metal finish. Apart from the prototype with the two-bladed prop, did any early planes fly with a buffed up metalwork and silver paint on fabric.? I'd love the chance to shine up some foil on the front of this lil machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said: Hi, Hurricane gang, glad I found you. I haven't had time to get through the 27 pages on here, so my query may already have been answered, but....... I'm doing a mk1 in 1/48 by hasegawa, and want to do a decent job on it. But I don't enjoy camo schemes etc, I love natural metal finish. Apart from the prototype with the two-bladed prop, did any early planes fly with a buffed up metalwork and silver paint on fabric.? I'd love the chance to shine up some foil on the front of this lil machine. Welcome aboard Rob. Take a look on p.25 of this thread. Magpie22 had some interesting pics of V7476 of the Central Flying School at RAAF Point Cook, Australia. Is that the kind of thing you're looking for? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Google G-AFKX for pictures. Originally L1606, it had fabric wings and was used for propeller trials from 1938. Silver doped fabric and polished metal bits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Thanks for that. Interesting photos - I'll have a browse around the Aussie site. I've already ditched the big tropical filter in favour of the classic nose. It's just so ugly! Could possibly retro fit it, but I'd rather not have it on. I was thinking more, parked up beside a Hart or Demon late 30s, before it all hit the fan. But there's a LOT of info and insight on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said: Hi, Hurricane gang, glad I found you. I haven't had time to get through the 27 pages on here, so my query may already have been answered, but....... I'm doing a mk1 in 1/48 by hasegawa, and want to do a decent job on it. But I don't enjoy camo schemes etc, I love natural metal finish. Apart from the prototype with the two-bladed prop, did any early planes fly with a buffed up metalwork and silver paint on fabric.? I'd love the chance to shine up some foil on the front of this lil machine. Not early, no, apart from GAFKX, the only one I know of.... buffed metal, aluminum doped fabric..... Quote The bare metal side panel as opposed to Aluminum dope overall are a neat touch, glossy red spinner and nose? IIRC that's a Sq/Ldr pennant. Spinner looks to be the Bullet Rotol with and oil ring. Quote That pennant looks more like a Group Captains pennant. The Sqn Ldr`s pennant was rectangular and although the Wing Commander`s pennant was triangular it had two thin red stripes whereas the Gp Capt pennant was similar but with a single thick red stripe. Note that this Hurri has a Vokes filter fitted and what looks to be an early Rotol propeller. Cheers Tony from this thread HTH T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 ^^^^ There is also AG244. Here is link to a warbird painted up in the scheme. http://www.easyballoons.co.uk/2014/06/03/phils-hurricane-nearly-there/ The original ended up in a bonfire at war's end 😖 Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Max Headroom said: ^^^^ There is also AG244. Here is link to a warbird painted up in the scheme. http://www.easyballoons.co.uk/2014/06/03/phils-hurricane-nearly-there/ The original ended up in a bonfire at war's end 😖 Trevor IIRC AG244, like the the other RATG Hurricanes (Rhodesian Air Training Group, see link above) is overall Aluminium dope. as seen here fabric and metal are same tone. I believe the paint job was to keep the planes a bit cooler. V6787 above was the 'Admiral's Barge' so it got stripped and polished, but stock trainers just got a coat of aluminuim overall. also note the gun camera on T9531, the bulge just above the ventral radiator. Edited May 24, 2017 by Troy Smith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, RJP said: Google G-AFKX for pictures. Originally L1606, it had fabric wings and was used for propeller trials from 1938. Silver doped fabric and polished metal bits. If you follow this route, note that G-AFKX had a different nose. Probably just the nose ring ahead of the exhausts, but it didn't taper to the same extent as the production aircraft and ended with the same diameter as the Rotol spinner, so that there was no step behind it as seen on V6787 above. Also, the first prototype had a different cowling shape, slightly higher and less wide at the top, because the design of the Merlin cylinder head changed for production. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 OK thanks all for the info, this is great! So, early means fabric wings, right? That's not going to be an option for me this time around, anyway. Aussie, Canadian, Rhodesian, S.African seems to be the area. What about the metal wings? Were they nmf polished up too? So many photos are side profile. I'm trying to make an effort with the flaps too, although they don't seem to be left open very much, or dropping, like some types when parked. Love the photo archive material you guys are accessing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said: OK thanks all for the info, this is great! So, early means fabric wings, right? That's not going to be an option for me this time around, anyway. Aussie, Canadian, Rhodesian, S.African seems to be the area. What about the metal wings? Were they nmf polished up too? So many photos are side profile. I'm trying to make an effort with the flaps too, although they don't seem to be left open very much, or dropping, like some types when parked. Love the photo archive material you guys are accessing! G-AFKX was probably fabric, only 600 fabric wing were built, out of over 14,000... ONLY V6787 is polished metal, the others are overall aluminum paint. Note that the area under/around the cockpit is fabric covered plywood not metal note the spinners looks to be gloss red (?) compare to the red in roundels, and he anti glare is most lilkely black, but could be roundel blue, given the attention paid to the rest of the airframe. Flaps. dropped on ground, no, except for servicing. Hurricane (and Spitfire) pilots got fined around of drinks for forgetting to raise their flaps!!!, they did not droop like say Mustangs (hydraulic bleed off) Showing them dropped is OK say with a mechanic looking at them, but I can think of very few photos of them on the ground with dropped flaps ... cheers T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) OK. Been loitering on Aussie sites, and looking at V7476, done in silver in1945ish? I do have some Pacific type markings. Some models are done with shiny metal sections Any comments would be more than welcome. Do you think they just painted her, or could this be a possible? This would be the one on p25 I guess, apparently the RAAF only had one Hurricane! Edited May 25, 2017 by rob Lyttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Painted aluminium the metal part and the fabric parts can look different even when painted in the same paint, and this is very weathered. the model you posted an image is an example of very poor research, as the base kit is Mk.IIc, and they have painted the fabric covered plywood dog house as metal.... HTH T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 But it is nice and shiny! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I have the rather nice 1/48 Airfix Hurricane in the final stages. It's going to be Finnished (lol) as a Finnish example. Undersides are Night/White/Silver . (Ignore the disparity on the Dark Green on the wing - I have a plan.......) Now then, does it have the painting stencil marks as per RAF (i.e. The W/T) applied as they were overhauled in the U.K. before delivery? This pic is inconclusive (as are others).... Also, the Night/White the demarcation went through the ventral radiator. Did anyone go to the bother of masking the inside of the radiator? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 If it was delivered as a new aircraft then it would. If it had been overhauled then it (probably) wouldn't. Mason states that they were taken from 19 and 20 MUs, which doesn't help a lot, but states that at least one was an Lxxxx serial, which is unlikely to have been new. I presume that the other serials have been published somewhere, but don't know where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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