Codger Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 A REALLY important tip... This applies to Pocher Rolls' but other Pochers would benefit from the principle. Even smaller 'big scale' builds too. You can't see both sides at once but for the truly anal (who me?) you will get a model that stands the highest scrutiny. Plus it's something that makes viewers feel it's an accurate replica but they don't know why. It's taken for granted that cars sit even and level. Throughout all the mock-ups and test fits over time, one thing has consistently bothered me. The tire to fender gap in the rear has never been even side-to-side. I checked warps, mounting locations and dozens of other parameters. The solution came to me today. And it's simple as pie for anyone to check and correct. First mount the wheels in place and place model on a relatively level surface. I added 2, 1 pound weights for checking purposes to settle everything where it will be when bolted together and the full interior and body are on. A simple pointer (pointed bamboo skewer) clamped in an 'extra hands' soldering jig makes an excellent reference jig. Pick a location on the chassis and just touch the pointer to the surface. Repeat on the other side and note any difference. I then fabricated 2, 1/8 x 1/4 styrene beams and placed them between the axle top and a bracket on the chassis. I kept adjusting the length of the spacer until the low side matched the 'correct' side. EACH SPACER WILL BE A DIFFERENT LENGTH. I made a circular notch in the spacer to go around the the tubular location on the axle and made the flat top fit snugly into the chassis bracket. When all checks and adjustments were done and both sides equal, a coat of flat black and two dabs of Gel CA completed the installation. But not before full-dress with rear fenders on and comparing each tire gap. The reason for the disparity on the Rolls is the complex brake bracketry which locates the axle to the chassis by small screws and uneven friction at each joint. CA on those joins would not last under the model's weight.One side will flex more than another. Having a now-invisible prop of the proper dimension assures that a very visible area of the car looks correct. Seen in the last shot in near-full dress, all the proportions and lines are evident. I darkened the roof filler to make viewing a bit easier. I may, when I get to the 'fine-tuning' stage, remove the .062 shim in the front springs to get that fender back closer to the tires. For now, a full 'undressing' and perfecting all the panels for primer. EDIT: Sorry the picky's are out of sequence. Electronic magic happens beyond my comprehension... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Such disparity is not confined to models. I remember a tale from the workshop where my brother was employed. They were having problems with a car that would not run straight. Despite adjusting the steering with optical alignment, the problem persisted. Eventually the vehicle was measured and the front left suspension assembly was found to be 1 inch further back than the right. The car had not been involved in an accident, it had come from the factory that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Such disparity is not confined to models. I remember a tale from the workshop where my brother was employed. They were having problems with a car that would not run straight. Despite adjusting the steering with optical alignment, the problem persisted. Eventually the vehicle was measured and the front left suspension assembly was found to be 1 inch further back than the right. The car had not been involved in an accident, it had come from the factory that way. Was it an Italian car by any chance?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Nope. One of these. http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com/vauxhall-fb---victor-envoy-in-canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpfiend Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Really nice solution there. That last picture really does show off the "look" that you have created. definitely worth all the effort you have put in so far, this is going to be superb when it is in paint. I am now taking extra notes on this build as I am just in the process of ordering the K75 Rolls kit from Peter at Pocher parts. I'm really looking forward to seeing the next steps when everything is in primer and the whole form will be consolidated. Best Regards Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Thanks Keith. Fingers crossed. Great news - another Roller build coming. Great dealing with Peter too. I'm up for any questions you develop not addressed in my thread. Then too there's Roy's and Larry;s builds to draw from.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 This thing is just getting better and better. Pity we don't have a 'Pocher showroom' to put them all in. I think there must be more Pocher builds/models on this forum than just about anywhere else. Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 At the very least there does seem to be a lot of Pocher building experience assembled here and a willingness to share and be helpful; that's what drew me here. Nice solution to getting a uniform ride height on the leaf springs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronut Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Pity we don't have a 'Pocher showroom' to put them all in There is a Pocher showroom at the Hornby visitors centre in Margate (moving to Ramsgate next year). Having visited it the builds on this forum are superior, but not as numerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 There is a Pocher showroom at the Hornby visitors centre in Margate (moving to Ramsgate next year). Having visited it the builds on this forum are superior, but not as numerous. That's nice to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Looking very nicely poised now Codger, I think you've got the clearances about perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 No exciting stuff... Don't have any 'glamorous' stuff to show but work has gone on. With the car in the state of the last picture, I've been trying to engineer the boring stuff; the fasteners that join major assemblies together. The car has so many changes from Pocher 'stock', that simple Pocher screws don't work or locations are in different places than where originally designed. The fenders are rotated and the trunk has new inner structure, needed when it was all cut up. Can't just drill a hole somewhere without knowing what you're going into. In particular, the rear fenders have to be screwed to the trunk (they already are to the main body) or the chassis to pin them flush to the panels. The trunk has to attach solidly to the back of the main body and chassis too. And the body lower front fastener bolts will be in a new location since the body was moved rearward 5mm. Of course, this all has to be removable for final finish. So I'm noodling around with brackets and trying to find locations for studs or bolts. Not fun, exciting work. I AM about to lay-out and fabricate the brass side window frames so they fit the door's new contours. At the same time, the internal door latch and handle mechanism needs figuring too. I have Marvin's beautiful outer door handles and they go in nothing like the Pocher parts. Everything takes figuring and testing from here on out. Sometimes I really miss the simple assembly of parts like chassis and engine where you get visible results and a little gratification very quickly. Photos and progress soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I feel like you could have written this post for my thread on the Merc as, I am almost at exactly the same point. Some days I'm not sure exactly where I'm at and if I've taken care of everything that needs doing before moving on. The threads on my door handles and other small MMC parts need cleaning up before I start cutting up the interior door pieces so, that's on hold until I receive those small 1.2 mm dies. Somehow I think that you're more dialed in than I am on what needs to happen next; can't wait to see the next picture update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpfiend Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I feel like you could have written this post for my thread on the Merc as, I am almost at exactly the same point. Some days I'm not sure exactly where I'm at and if I've taken care of everything that needs doing before moving on. The threads on my door handles and other small MMC parts need cleaning up before I start cutting up the interior door pieces so, that's on hold until I receive those small 1.2 mm dies. Somehow I think that you're more dialed in than I am on what needs to happen next; can't wait to see the next picture update. I was thinking this my self just today as I was working on the fit of my doors once again, after the first round, I still was not entirely happy and have ended up reworking the hinge mount points once again. I'm looking toward to the next update as always. Best regards Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I think we're all (big stuff builders) in a similar boat here now. My Aston is just getting an interior tub mocked up - measuring, cutting, trimming - bin it, start again....... All part of what I call 'fun' in modelling. I enjoy occasionally building 'shake-and-bake' OOB kits, but for me, the REAL fun is solving problems and working out how to get the result you want. Keep at it Mr C. We're all learning. Roy. Edited September 14, 2015 by roymattblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 No fun for me today or tomorrow, two doctor appointments back to back. One today at 3:30 and the next one at 8:30 in the morning, ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 No fun for me today or tomorrow, two doctor appointments back to back. One today at 3:30 and the next one at 8:30 in the morning, ugh! Thanks all guys. The good news is that we all slog through these times instead of putting it on the shelf of doom. Best luck at all the docs Wayne. I wish you pretty nurses at least............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Funnily enough, I actually enjoy the minutiae of the 'engineering process', it's by far my favourite part of any model build. Which explains the dozens of half built and unpainted models in my house. Working out locations for studs and bolts and then fitting them would be bit I enjoyed the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Funnily enough, I actually enjoy the minutiae of the 'engineering process', it's by far my favourite part of any model build. Which explains the dozens of half built and unpainted models in my house. Working out locations for studs and bolts and then fitting them would be bit I enjoyed the most. Then you'll love this bit of torture Rob; Lucky sometimes... As described, a bunch of planning and test fits have been going on before the next big project; soldering up window frames and door assembling. In particular, I needed to get the trunk and rear fenders fastened solidly to the main structure. I kind of hit a wall with this boring stuff so I began disassembling the last mock-up to begin the door work. And then, an idea simply presented itself. Having made several types of brackets and looked at 3 types of screws / bolts, I had no satisfactory way to secure the trunk. But the simple answer was, the same way I secured the rear of the floorboard. Using 2mm threaded rod, I had drilled and tapped the chassis and made a 'stud', then drilled the floor in the exact location (fun) and retained with a nut. I've had the floor / body unit on and off literally countless times and the system has been bulletproof. So using some soft putty placed on the chassis in the approximate area, I placed the trunk in position and compressed the putty. This gave me the height of the spacer block I'd need. After measuring, 1/8 x 1/4 styrene rod was cut to 15mm long and checked for fit between chassis and trunk bottom. Much careful measuring of the distances from the rear of the body and in from the trunk side followed. This determined where the block should sit on the chassis and where holes should be drilled in it and the trunk floor. All this was necessary because the trunk has been severely altered from stock. Seen in other pictures, the details atop the gas tank had to be removed in order for the trunk to sit square in the chassis. No matter, as they are unseen even in a stock build. The chassis paint was scuffed in the area, the block also. A bit of German gray will make this all disappear later. A .062 hole was drilled off center in the block and matching place on the chassis. A peg of styrene rod was inserted to make a small locating peg which (along with the 2mm stud) would prevent the block from ever moving. A drop of gel CA and then the #49 hole was drilled and tapped for the 2mm threads. Then CA on the threads as they sank down to the bottom of the chassis channel. Trunk holes were located and drilled slightly oversize. A washer will be under the nut upon final assembly. I lucked-out with a perfect, secure fit. Once again the value of stout (compared to Pocher screws) removable 2mm fasteners are highly recommended to Pocher builders. I can now make simple 2mm bolts, (a nut CA'd to a length of threaded rod) to secure each fender to the trunk body. Just a lot of tricky measuring and a tapped block inside needed. I may not have to attach the trunk to the body because 4 studs already hold the floor unit to the chassis. Actually easier to do than write about. Overcoming a stumbling block always gives you much enthusiasm to move ahead... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) I know we don't post to see people just saying 'ooh - ahh - fantastic'..... But..... Amazing! What else can I say? Roy. Edited September 15, 2015 by roymattblack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 All in keeping with the theory of a true Pocher being screwed and bolted together. Funny how that whole idea of ease of removal has spawned all these new ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noeyedears Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 ingenious solution, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpfiend Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Very nice solution indeed. Best Regards Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Another tip... This is primarily for Rolls builders but may work on other hard-roof cars like Alfa Coupe and Bugatti. I needed to work the bottom of the chassis but with the body attached. I've made body mount brackets (will show soon) which bolt to the bottom rails and connect to the new, lower body edge. First attach the body / floor unit to the chassis. I have 2mm studs through the rear floor and 0-80 bolts through the front floor. If you have workstands, remove the rear one and carefully invert the whole car. Rest the roof on a pad and you're done. Solid and safe to measure and attach parts. No front fender though because of the front stand. I knew there was a good reason I whacked the windshield down. Almost as good as a rotisserie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noeyedears Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Nice. Could do with a few good engineers like you at our place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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