Codger Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Fair warning... In an abrupt change from interior work, (anything to avoid making those seats!) and after exhaustive research, I learned I could get exactly the look I was after from the finished car. All I had to do was hack, drill, saw and sand on my sweetheart. Now you may be sick of this opera by now but I've just added more months to the project. I will supply No-Doze to any still riding along. This view, taken months earlier shows the arrangement of the body panels to each other. Note that the brace rod between radiator and firewall rises at the rear to meet the firewall. Well that ain't the way they were: that was Pocher's solution. The entire hood top line was flat from front to rear. Having followed Pocher and Koo got me to this point. Now research has taught me that the body can be channeled, the floor lowered, and the windscreen and top chopped. Not for the faint of heart however. This knowledge came to me by studying the fantastic custom models of David Cox at his site: http://www.detailedmodelcars.com/ Yes, this will still be a classic Rolls Sedanca, not a rat rod, Blastolene, custom or low rider. Just a lot more how they REALLY looked. I've been working through the alignments and architecture for some time now and plastic and metal have been sacrificed and the camera clicking. I will soon post the idea for any I haven't already alienated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Sublime work and dedication Codger, wherever you find your inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Hmm, a Rolls rat rod. I like that idea, but only if I can fit a big Merlin under the bonnet. I'm pretty sure that no one is falling asleep, old chap. You're a craftsman of the first order, and despite the fact that I'm not a Rolls Royce fan (far too stodgy), watching you conquer this 'kit' is an inspiration to my much lesser efforts. Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hmm, a Rolls rat rod. I like that idea, but only if I can fit a big Merlin under the bonnet. I'm pretty sure that no one is falling asleep, old chap. You're a craftsman of the first order, and despite the fact that I'm not a Rolls Royce fan (far too stodgy), watching you conquer this 'kit' is an inspiration to my much lesser efforts. Keep it up! I call your bluff Rob. If you go on David's link in my post, you will SEE his Merlin / Rolls. That ain't 'stodgy' so get your tools out. And thank you and PC for really nice encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I recall seeing an interpretation of Travis McGee's Rolls pickup in Scale Auto Enthusiast many years ago. I've never read the books, but it was interesting, for sure. I will indeed go and look at the Merlin Rolls - I've seen a drag racing motorcycle powered by 2 Merlin cylinders, so this should be interesting. Edited April 13, 2015 by Rob G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Codger, I think you suffer from the same thing I do; the longer the build goes on the more I think about what I can do differently and things slow down a bit. However, having said that I think this build is going to be pretty fantastic when completed. After looking at David Cox's website I looked at another one I had cataloged but, only of real cars and I found two interesting vehicles. The first is a 1938 Mercedes 540K that has a wood dash and wood uppers on the door panels that I like so, I am going to take your advice and use the wood paper print to build that detail. I know you've probably mentioned it before but, where did you source the photos or paper with the wood print already on it? Thanks, Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Glad you'll try my method Wayne. Here's one supplier: http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Raw__Wood__Veneer/Wood__Veneer__A__-__G/Amboyna__%28Burl%29/ 'Certainly Wood' and 'Woodcrafters' are two others. Select your favorite (there are 100's!), click on your choice then click again on the image to make it full screen. Print. Be sure to get Kodak print paper, (an office supply store) semi-gloss finish. It has good body and strength; you can lightly score the back and fold a perfect 90 degree edge. I use a scalpel to cut not scissors. Use hole punches for instruments. Coat with clear acrylic spray; I use Krylon Crystal Clear #1303. One light and one medium coat should do. Please post your build again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ditto the above method - or (as I did on my Phantom and my Alfa Spider) print onto waterslide decal paper... Either way works really well. Great stuff Mr C - As always...... Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've been reading through this & I doff my cap & if I still had a forelock or two I'd tug them as well to you Mr Codger. The trials & tribulations of making this as well as the other things going on in the background have made compulsive viewing & I'm glad that the fates have been kind to you in your troubles, does put things into perspective. I was just pondering that these cars were (still are) very much 'bespoke' & the customer could have had any fit or finish they could afford (within reason) so there's no real 'standard' to work from so how did you decide? This is your car so you can have any damn colour you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've been reading through this & I doff my cap & if I still had a forelock or two I'd tug them as well to you Mr Codger. The trials & tribulations of making this as well as the other things going on in the background have made compulsive viewing & I'm glad that the fates have been kind to you in your troubles, does put things into perspective. I was just pondering that these cars were (still are) very much 'bespoke' & the customer could have had any fit or finish they could afford (within reason) so there's no real 'standard' to work from so how did you decide? This is your car so you can have any damn colour you want Thank you Mothy. Yes, I've had a long-time vision of how I wanted it if it were 1:1 and I a wealthy original owner in 1932. Note; that's different than a 2015 restoration (and modification) of the 1:1 car. It's just a huge flight of fancy and I'm thrilled I got the opportunity to do it before my lights go out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Thanks Codger & Roy, Wow, you certainly weren't kidding about the number of wood grains to choose from. I like the burl but, the Mercedes reference I saw was a dark blue, almost black, 1938 Mercedes 540K with a gray interior and a dark walnut dash and upper door trim in place of the leather on the earlier 1936. Now, I'm starting to rethink at least one of my Mercedes builds and maybe do a little surgery on the body and possibly go for the longer hood and shorter rear deck and convert the 500K to a later 540K. As usual, you have given something to think about. I will pick this up on my Mercedes thread so as to hijack anything here. Thanks guys. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Certainly keep your thread going; it's great entertainment. And congrats on some advanced build techniques. That helps all of us. But no hijack here; all Pocher discussion welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Getting somewhere... A lot has been done but I'll just show where it got me to. Here is an early photo to give understanding to what's been done. It's a close shot of the firewall and how it sits on the chassis according to Pocher. Note the rectangular wood block between the floor and chassis rail. See that the firewall is spaced off the frame by .250". The high firewall raises the body front even higher. This causes the hood to slope downward from the firewall to the radiator - the originals were flat: The object is to get the floor (which attaches to the body side sills) to rest on the frame (thereby lowering it) to give the correct proportions the 1:1 had. Another earlier view showing that the cowl is raised above the firewall (a huge ugly gap) and the step between the firewall and cowl. Clearly the body front edge is much higher than the radiator. This would be an out of box assembly: After much cutting, grinding, slotting and bracket removal, here's where it is now. Firewall sits flush on the frame, Body is channeled roughly .250" and cowl sits atop the firewall. This lowers the rear of the hood line making a straight line from radiator to body. The entire floor will sit on the frame at front (hadn't been slotted completely in this shot; it now sits flat) and nearly flush in rear. This will also lower the rear fender tire clearance. The louvers and side panels now have different relationships and will need sectioning and material added to give a straight louver line and hood sides that rest on the frame, not overlap. Just careful measuring and fitting to come: Now with the help of a little editing, a look at where we're going. To visually lower the car's aspect in addition to the actual lowering done so far, the door rear window track and door top edge have been removed: And here the windscreen frame and top have been chopped roughly 5/16". Compare to the second photo above: Much has been done so far but much remains to get all the various proportions to play with each other. All this advanced work has come from studying the Dave Cox site and conversations with him. It's giving me the model I'd always hoped. Edited April 18, 2015 by Codger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Nice work, Codger. That extra work certainly is certainly paying off, that's a huge difference! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpfiend Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Very nice work there, your adjustments have now really caught the lines of the Rolls beautifully. This is going to look amazing in paint. Best Regards Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Flights of fancy... When radically altering a design, I've learned that the most important thing is to coordinate all the elements. Adding the stock trunk changes everything we've altered for the sake of refinement by putting a big box on the back end. Note that there are myriad detail changes required after the big elements are altered; things like the coach line, louvers, running boards and hood cut lines. Please pardon the poor photo editing but it does help one visualize proposed changes. The actual work to achieve the lowness will be shown in coming photos. The floor is now finalized as is the firewall which is bolted in place and the foundation for all the body structural work. A LOT of cutting and slotting was needed. The body rear is lowered by 4mm over the rails, giving a much better tire gap (seen below) at the rear. The front fender was finalized months ago and now the rear matches that lowered position. Here is the current state before any further alterations; remember some of the previous shots were edited to show where I want it to be. To review, here the body has been channeled and the floor lowered to the frame top. The door top has had a 'digital' cut at the top edge. The hood is no longer raked down to the grille; it's flat as all Phantoms were: Now we see what sectioning (lowering) the trunk does; a smoother-flowing belt line from the now-flat hood top to trunk top. The top and windshield post has been digitally chopped; the post 5mm, the top about 7mm. Probably need to take at least 5mm out of the trunk: A more daring idea shows the trunk rear wall angled to add to the visual movement of the whole design. Many 1:1 Phantoms had custom trunks just like this. Remember the exposed spare tire will be mounted and angled there too. I'm not sure if I'll go that far but am leaning that way (pun intended). Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shood23 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The look of the slanted one compliments the look of the car better in my opinion the others look to bulky and don't look a good fit, I think that if back then people chose the tall squared option it was probably more for function than style but I suppose if you could afford a car like this it didn't matter what configuration of trunk you had Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is there any mileage in removing the 'S' line along the upper edge of the door and the rear lower roof sides, to create a completely straight body line from the radiator grill, right through to the rear end of the car? After all, you've gone this far... Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is there any mileage in removing the 'S' line along the upper edge of the door and the rear lower roof sides, to create a completely straight body line from the radiator grill, right through to the rear end of the car? After all, you've gone this far... Roy. Yes there is. The thing I'm learning, once having my eyes opened to the fact that the stock kit is a blank canvas - is that you must go slowly when radically altering. Once you get elements in place that you really want, you look to the refinements. I'm in that process now. Your suggestion would certainly make it look longer and lower (desirable) but I wonder if it needs that bit of curvature for continuity with the landau irons and curves of all the fenders. Just dunno, right now; it's important to remember that the two-tone paint will certainly add visual lowness too. I'm purposely going slowly with further changes - I'd rather make mistakes on screen than on all the work I've got in so far... Thanks for a thoughtful question Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Haven't quit yet... Even though I've been off the board for a bit, work has progressed almost daily. Mostly the design phase and study how to implement the proposed changes above. But this week, quite a bit of styrene dust has been created. I have channeled the body roughly 3/8" and have the cowl / hood joint flat - like 1:1, not Pochers. The floor and chassis have been heavily modified for this. I've selected the dimensions and am now prepared to cut the top and windscreen. And door tops. And inner door panels, One thing leads to several others in this maze. After that, reassembly and full dress with fenders to select the sizing of the hood side panels and getting the louvers all straight - a big visual point on 1:1. I will post photos soon. But just to hopefully peak your interest, an additional, major design change is now finalized on paper (or screen actually). I have seen no Pocher Rolls with this feature and only one 1:1 in all my research. It's complex but I thought I'd try it because it promises the car I've wanted. I surely would have had an OOB build done by now. But this has become way more than a 'relaxing hobby'. More soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noeyedears Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 are you adding a rocket launcher?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 are you adding a rocket launcher?????????? NO. But Mr Cox has some expertise along those lines... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 This is getting more and more intriguing...... Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Your reworking has improved the whole look of the model. Personally I slightly prefer the squarer trunk as it matches the overall shape of the car, perhaps a compromise version angled to match the windscreen might be optimal? With a project this big why would you accept anything less than your ideal.....Keep going until it's (your personal) perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thank you for expressing your opiniion Sgt. Feedback counts. I have been consider a trunk exactly as yu suggest and view the sketcaly to see how it wears. The encouragement is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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