Simon Cornes Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Has anyone got any experence of this please? I have just bought myself 200ml from the LMS and I'm going to be using it on Xtracolour enamel paint. I'm hoping it wil be just fine but I thought I'd ask on here as I couldn't face a wrinkled colour coat after this goes on! I would normally have used Xtracolour satin varnish but the sediment of my one bottle is sticking very firmly to the bottom so I have no faith that I could get enough into the otherwise gloss varnish to make it anywhere near a satin finish! My Plan A was to use Humbrol satin but my LMS say its not available yet (a 2014 release) hence this Plan B. Here's hoping for a favourable response! I'm going to be airbrushing it onto a 1/48th RN Buccaneer by the way so a uniform finish is desirable!! Logic says I should test spray it onto a piece of card with the Xtrcolour paint on it. Maybe I'll try it on one wing panel to hedge my bets!! Many thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Nezumi Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Vallejo's satin varnish is brilliant when thinned slightly with their thinner. I also recommend you spray it over a gloss surface for best results. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawty82 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'll second that, great stuff, I don't use anything else. My personal opinion is perhaps its a little matt-looking but once I see the finish it produces, I just fall in love. But please bear in mind I only use 1 coat, so perhaps layering a couple more coats on would make it a bit shinier. I also only spray it on a gloss surface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Well gents, I used the satin varnish last night - dissaster!! Let me set the scene and at the end, ask for your opinion about how best to proceed? 1) I decided to apply said varnish using a Badger/Humbrol 250 'spraygun'. I was told by my LMS that only a small amount of airbrush thinner was required so I put in about 1cc, maybe less. The first thing I discovered was that the spraygun puts on hardly any varnish until the thing to be painted almost seems to be suddenly awash with it! I will not be useing the spraygun for anything other than sparying the garden fence in future! 2) I whip out the Aztek and transfer the varnish. Net result - nothing - nothing comes out of the brush - maintenance required! 3) Badger 200 - fitted with fine tip due to split in medium tip. It is very fine, so much so that it would take days to paint an airframe the size of a 1/48th Bucc - remember I am used to using the very excellent Xtracolor varnish which sprays on like water! 4) Out with a soft paint brush and complete the job with that instead. Net result - a rather shiny airframe, not at all satin! Whats more, one wing panel has pickled, due to too much varnish I suspect! So I intend to strip off the paint on the one wing panel and then spend a few days re painting and decalling it . The question is, can I spray the varnish on again?If so, will it lose its gloss? (Note I have a new medium Badger nozzle on order to apply it with. Not a very good experience.I think the main issue was that the stuff was just too thick so how much thinner do I need? I also notice that the bottle suggests a couple of coats allowing several hours drying in between. I suspect that coat one should dry almost matt and coat two will have the satin sheen? Any suggestions? !!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) There are two possible reasons for the satin varnish drying as gloss: - the paint is old - the paint was not mixed properly It's likely that the problem is due to the second reason, give every vallejo clear varnish a very good long shake before pouring it into your airbrush. Regarding a second coat, there's no problem with adding this, but the final result will depend on the finish of the next coat more than else. If this is still glossy, then the finish will stay glossy. Thinning: I don't like giving ratios, my "technique" is simply to add thinner until the consistency is "right". For me the right consistency is when the paint will run over a vertical surface leaving a streak.. in any case better to add too much thinner rather than too little. If there's a bit too much thinner, just reduce the pressure Edited May 7, 2014 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brown Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Never had any trouble with the Vallejo MA Satin. Beautiful stuff. I do thin with a little retardant though, not their thinners. Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Nezumi Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I agree with Giorgio. The varnish probably completely separated from the carrier liquid, needing a very good shake. This is a common problem with vallejo paints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Thanks for the advice guys. My LMS proprietor told me not to shake it up because of the possibility of getting air bubbles into the varnish but I would normally shake the Xtracolour varnish for a good couple of minutes for to get it well mixed. My brain obviously wasn't switched to common sense last night!! Regarding thinning, well Vallejo have a 60ml bottle specificailly for thining paint for airbrushing and my LMS was quite insistent opn it being used sparingly . Again, I'm not familiar with this stuff. 10% or more white spirit with Xtracoour varnishes works like a dream for me an I would have been using Xtracolour if only I had some!! I'm hoping then that a properly shaken second attempt may do the trick? I will leave it for a few days as I have a spolied wing panel to strip and repaint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Never had any trouble with the Vallejo MA Satin. Beautiful stuff. I do thin with a little retardant though, not their thinners. Rick. How much retarder do you use, does it affect drying times? Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 How much retarder do you use, does it affect drying times? Shaun. And what make is it - Vallejo ? And finally, where do you get it from? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brown Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If the vanish is the same as their small 70.522 then I use this: http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/advancedsearchresults.aspx?query=artists-acrylic-flow-improver-125-ml You mix it with distilled water and a bottle will last forever. I can't say exactly how much I thin by, I just bung it in until it looks right for my 0.3mm needle brush. You really don't need much. It does extend the drying time quite a bit and will stay slightly tacky a couple of days, but you can re-coat when touch dry, maybe within about 15mins. Hope that helps. Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Well last night, with new medium nozzle for Badger, I was able to spray the Vallejo satin onto my Bucc. I used a fair amount of the airbrush thinner and the varnich was quite 'watery' and well shaken in the polythene bottle before putting into the jar and then adding thinners. The result is a very nice matt finish, not satin but much better than the previous full gloss! Any suggestuions as to what I have done wrong? I think I may have over thinned it and I'm thinking of pouring all of the remaining varnish from the jar back into the poly bottle - including thinners (Would that be a bad thing?) Next step would be to try again using minimal thinners - added a bit at at time until it would actually spray - I find undiluted won't spray, even with a medium spray head. Thank youSimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Nezumi Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think I may have over thinned it and I'm thinking of pouring all of the remaining varnish from the jar back into the poly bottle - including thinners (Would that be a bad thing?) Next step would be to try again using minimal thinners - added a bit at at time until it would actually spray - I find undiluted won't spray, even with a medium spray head. That's a good idea. Varnishes seem to have a 'sweet spot' thinner-to-paint ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shermaniac Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Start with a CLEAN Airbrush Cut your Varnish by about 30% with Vallejo Airbrush Thinner (the clear stuff) Mix thoroughly Squirt it through, and Voila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Start with a CLEAN Airbrush Cut your Varnish by about 30% with Vallejo Airbrush Thinner (the clear stuff) Mix thoroughly Squirt it through, and Voila! So I'm reading that 70% varnish to 30% thinner ? Here we go, I'll let you know what happens! Thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Brown Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 So I'm reading that 70% varnish to 30% thinner ? Here we go, I'll let you know what happens! Thanks Simon It does get easier to mix after awhile, you end up doing it by eye after a bit of practise. Honest! Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Thanks Kuro, Shermaniac and Rick, Well, rather than go for the 30:70 mix I decided to try the 'few drops at a time' approach. So I shook the bottle for 2 minutes - using a timer - the same as for a rattle can. I poured what turns out to be about 17g into a Badger jar and then put 5 drops of airbrish thinner in, put the lid on and gave it a good shake. I then tested it on a piece of white paper and got varnish coming out of the nozzle so decided to go with that. The result? Well I would say its matt again with a very slight sheen - the same as it was the first time around when I thought I'd over thinned it. I'm now wondering how shiny Vallejo satin varnish is supposed to be? Maybe not very ? I was expecting more shine than this! I then washed everything out with water as per Vallejo's instructions and noted that I had a build up of dried white varnish inside the brush tip. Now removed and I have seen in other threads where people have commented about how fast it dries and I would echo that. I'm now going to give it a good 4 hours drying time before trying again and maybe I won't shake the varnish bottle for more than a minute this time? This is one of the joys of painting - and I normally want a matt finish so this is really going against the grain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Second coat applied - same result. In my opinion then, Vallejo satin varnish is a bit more satin than matt but not very !! I suppose I would say its a sort of 'waxy sheen' definately not mat . In practice I was hoping for something a bit shinier (for a FAA Buccaneer) so I may risk a coat of Xtracolor satin on top? Not sure how it would react with the Vallejo varnish though although I think it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I use Vallejo's Model Colour 222 satin varnish on most of my models and yes, this is more like a matt with slight sheen. And it's exactly why I use it, I find this finish very realistic for those aircrafts painted with what we would call "matt" finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Vale Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 If you've got a clean coat on you might be able to relieve the matte-ness by buffing gently with a rag or a paper towel when the varnish is thoroughly dry. I've done this to get variation between airframe panels (albeit with a different varnish) and I was quite pleased with the result. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 I use Vallejo's Model Colour 222 satin varnish on most of my models and yes, this is more like a matt with slight sheen. And it's exactly why I use it, I find this finish very realistic for those aircrafts painted with what we would call "matt" finishes. I think I know what you mean, the kind of sheen you might find on a later Spit - Mk IX or so in 'smooth' finish? If you've got a clean coat on you might be able to relieve the matte-ness by buffing gently with a rag or a paper towel when the varnish is thoroughly dry. I've done this to get variation between airframe panels (albeit with a different varnish) and I was quite pleased with the result.Will Not sure I would dare to do this! I'm thinking more of a coat of shinier Xtraclour satin! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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