Edubarca Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hello all, I am building an old Hawk U2 Spy plane. I want to decorate my model with the colours and markings used in the U2 that was shot down over Sverdlovsk in the USSR on May 1, 1960 and piloted by the late Francis Gary Powers. I know the plane was all very dark grey, almost black, but I want to know if it had any markings at all, even if they were very small such as little triangles on the cockpit side, perhaps any "RESCUE" lettering etc. I also want to know the interior of the cockpit and landing gear wells. I suppose it not was any zinc chromate. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Actually Powers's airplane (and all U-2s until the mid-1960s) was semi-gloss Sea Blue, FS 25042 (same color as USN aircraft from WWII through the mid 50s, except semi-gloss vs full gloss). They did carry basic safety and maintenance markings, but no other markings. Cockpits were FS 36231 in common with other US aircraft then and now. There are lots of color photos of the remains of Powers's aircraft on display in Russia where you can see the blue color. Edited April 18, 2014 by Jennings Heilig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 On cue........ I think I took some close-ups of some of the more visible markings - shout if you want them..... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 He so good ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edubarca Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Thank you very much for the information and photos. However, I still don't get the exact type of "blue" I really thought it was bluish black. I have read in several places that the colour was indeed flat black. If it is blue from a plane such as the Hellcat or Dauntless, it is really blue, not black. The photos show a more greyish than bluish colour. I'm puzzled!! What do you recommend? And what is the meaning of FS25042?? Where can I find a chip showing the colour? Remember, I live in Colombia, our information sources are not the same as other parts of the world. Thanks again!!! And is this Hawk U2 (First edition, 1962 kit) with the small air intakes is correct to make the Powers' U2? Or is it a later model with bigger intakes and other modifications. I appreciate your help!!! There has been a lot of speculation on this subject, very interesting by the way. This plane almost initiated WW III!!! Edited April 19, 2014 by Edubarca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimmer Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Edubarca, try to google FS25042 and most probably you will be presented with a "chip" which represents a color you looking for (well, adjusted to your monitor settings, i.e. very close ). It's rather blue than black. intakes: interim (smaller than "coke bottle" shaped), no US insignia, only technical stencils - "no step" white outline , ejection seat and canopy release instructions. I suppose it not was any zinc chromate. Actually the structures on the pictures above look very zinc chromate-ish, cockpit was light grey with matt black instrument panel, IIRC This plane almost initiated WW III In no way, as a matter of fact. U2 overflights of USSR was a regular routine even before 1960 there was another aircraft which almost initiated WWIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Thank you very much for the information and photos. However, I still don't get the exact type of "blue" I really thought it was bluish black. I have read in several places that the colour was indeed flat black. If it is blue from a plane such as the Hellcat or Dauntless, it is really blue, not black. The photos show a more greyish than bluish colour. I'm puzzled!! What do you recommend? And what is the meaning of FS25042?? Where can I find a chip showing the colour? Remember, I live in Colombia, our information sources are not the same as other parts of the world. Thanks again!!! U-2s were delivered and flew their first several years in gleaming natural metal. The CIA decided this was potentially too visible under some conditions, so in about 1959 they painted them blue, not black or blackish blue. It was semi-gloss blue just like the USN gloss color from WWII through the mid-50s. Same exact color, only semi-gloss. U-2s we're not painted black until well into the Vienam war era in the mid-1960s. And when they were, it was ***black*** (the blackest, sooty, black-black-black you can imagine). And is this Hawk U2 (First edition, 1962 kit) with the small air intakes is correct to make the Powers' U2? Or is it a later model with bigger intakes and other modifications. I appreciate your help!!! There has been a lot of speculation on this subject, very interesting by the way. This plane almost initiated WW III!!! Not exactly. Powers's airplane (Article 360) was a U-2C, but the bulged intakes seen in the revised Testors release of the Hawk U-2C kit are the U-2R style, seen only after about 1968. The intakes on the U-2C in 1960 were bulged laterally, not vertically. From the side they appeared identical to the A intake, and the bulge was only apparent when seen from above or below. Article 360 did carry slipper tanks in 1960. The laterally bulged intakes were done by Cutting Edge (long out of business and hard to find). Edited April 19, 2014 by Jennings Heilig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edubarca Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Thanks guys. I'm going to remove the flat black I applied on my U2 and repaint very dark blue (flat). As for starting WW3, I meant the Powers incident. As you say, the U2 was flying over the USSR since 1957. I have Gary Powers' book and it is very interesting. Turning back to my model, I will not touch the intakes. As stated before, my plastic Hawk U2 dates back to 1962 when it was first issued in black plastic after the first edition which was chrome plated. I had the opportunity of visiting the Hawk plant in 1969 in Chicago and they told me that the model was not a top seller. They were all surprised since it was very much in the news. As a matter of fact, Swedish modeler Bjorn Kalström published in 1958 a three view drawing in Model Airplane News and it was a shock everywhere !! How can a top secret plane appear in a child model airplane magazine? I have this issue in my collection. I still have doubt about the colour of the wheel wells and wheel doors interior. I'm not too much convinced it was Zinc Chromate. We shall see!! I also have a card model of the U2 but the R version and it is difficult to convert it back to Powers' U2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Actually Powers's airplane (and all U-2s until the mid-1960s) was semi-gloss Sea Blue, FS 25042 (same color as USN aircraft from WWII through the mid 50s, except semi-gloss vs full gloss). They did carry basic safety and maintenance markings, but no other markings. Cockpits were FS 36231 in common with other US aircraft then and now. There are lots of color photos of the remains of Powers's aircraft on display in Russia where you can see the blue color. May I ask where you gained the information regarding the colour scheme as being Sea Blue, as all the information that I have from numerous sources does not even touch on the scheme being Blue, but black. They list numerous colour schemes from Natural metal, Grey, Camo grey 2 tone and final scheme of Black dependent on the operator. The photos unfortunatly do not convince me that it is blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The photos unfortunatly do not convince me that it is blue. Really??? So Kelly Johnson's suit and U-2's fuselage are the same colour as his shoes and the plane's radome... Chris Pocock (the world's leading U-2 expert) suggests FS 25042. And BTW Hawk's original issue of the U-2 kit was molded in...blue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 It was a straightforward question that was asked, and the photos concerned where of the tangled wreck NOT Kelly Johnstons suit !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 It was a straightforward question that was asked, and the photos concerned where of the tangled wreck NOT Kelly Johnstons suit !!! Is this black that I'm seeing Is this the black, that I've been searching for Is this black or am I dreaming, This must be black, OK I give up, if you want to see it as black then so it be. PS: You might want to contact Chris Pocock and tell him that he's wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this black that I'm seeing Is this the black, that I've been searching for Is this black or am I dreaming, This must be black, OK I give up, if you want to see it as black then so it be. PS: You might want to contact Chris Pocock and tell him that he's wrong... Instead of being so sarcastic in your replies to a general question asked, why not just show the additional photos without all the snide comments. Nough said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Instead of being so sarcastic in your replies to a general question asked, why not just show the additional photos without all the snide comments. Nough said. Apologies. Happy now??? Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 May I ask where you gained the information regarding the colour scheme as being Sea Blue, as all the information that I have from numerous sources does not even touch on the scheme being Blue, but black. They list numerous colour schemes from Natural metal, Grey, Camo grey 2 tone and final scheme of Black dependent on the operator. The photos unfortunatly do not convince me that it is blue. If you follow this link http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u883zM7_QYMC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=cia+u-2+blue&source=bl&ots=I5Bs_mxoiB&sig=q-CK4ZVIDVX14fAIFdKyydWl_sU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8NhTU4jgAuH00gXNnIC4DQ&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=cia%20u-2%20blue&f=false, goes to a book on google, originally secret, does not mention the exact colour but mentions blue-black not a straight black. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) You can choose to believe anything you want to. The information comes from the world's foremost authority on U-2 history, Chris Pocock, author of several books and numerous articles on the subject. Chris has been researching all aspects of the U-2 for several decades. The photos of the wreckage of the Powers aircraft linked above *clearly* show the blue color. If you choose to believe it's black, I doubt anyone here is going to change your mind, even with facts, but the *fact* is that they were painted FS 25042. Edited April 20, 2014 by Jennings Heilig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 You can choose to believe anything you want to. The information comes from the world's foremost authority on U-2 history, Chris Pocock, author of several books and numerous articles on the subject. Chris has been researching all aspects of the U-2 for several decades. The photos of the wreckage of the Powers aircraft linked above *clearly* show the blue color. If you choose to believe it's black, I doubt anyone here is going to change your mind, even with facts, but the *fact* is that they were painted FS 25042. Thanks for the reply to my original question, nothing I believe to be true is cast in stone so to reiterate all the information that I myself have does not mention the Blue colour, obviously yourself and others have other information that contradicts what I have. That is all my original question asked, where the info was gathered from, that is why I asked the question. I can now update the information references that I have in my possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnguylander Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Maj. Rudolph Anderson 's U-2 was certainly blue. Even the blue of the National insignia was darker- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 And it was a borrowed CIA airplane. In 1962 the USAF's U-2s were still natural metal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cooper Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 ...while the FS-server (clicky!) is telling you all you need to know about FS 25042... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edubarca Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Hello my friends. This has been a very interesting discussion just as I stated above when I started it. My Hawk U2 will be dark blue. I think that after all the research I've made, this is the most probable colour. Some people think it is blue-black, other plain black etc. The remains of the U2 show a blue colour but this might not be correct since it might have faded after 50 years, It just shows that it IS blue. A couple of doubts I have and need your help. I have seen some U2s with a rather long and square bulge on top of the fuselage. Powers' U2 had it? Also, what is the colour of the pogo struts? And finally, I have seen one of the photos of Powers with a U2 model which has a couple of tanks forward of the wing. His U2 had them? Thanks guys for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnguylander Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't think the Powers bird had either the dorsal canoe or the slipper tanks. I don't think that pogos were unique to any particular airframe, so, one mission might use yellow pogos, another, maybe another hi-vis color. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimmer Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 slipper tanks were fitted definitely. Color pictures of the era show pogo struts as red with slight orange hue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 A slipper tank is clearly visible in the photos I posted, take of Gary Powers U-2 now residing in the Central Armed Forces Museum, Moscow. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edubarca Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 It means that I will in this case install the slipper tanks. But these were fixed? or dropped when they were empty. What on earth was that "dorsal canoe"? Funny name!! My model has been painted and awaiting drying. Any opinions on what small "Rescue" type Powers machine had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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